Brovo

GM Dilemna - How do you guys deal with this?

Kestrel and Tick have it right. Refer to their posts.

GM Dilemna - How do you guys deal with this?

"Hello friend! I see you aren't using a Word Document program, may I suggest Libre Office..."

Watch the spelling skills shoot up like a rocket. Grammar should improve too, Libre Office has basic grammar checking tools. For instance, it sometimes spots improper punctuation.

As for the rest, helpful hints and pointers.

Believe me when I say that those you help out to improve, will remember that, and will stick with you assuming they aren't stuck up dicks about it.

How do you define NPCs?

Psyga315 said So, that is my question(s) for this thread: How do you define NPCs? What NPCs are acceptable for players to control? Are RPGs more enjoyable when the GM controls NPCs or when the players control NPCs?

How do you define NPCs?
A: NPC's in role playing, though especially PbPRP (forum role playing) are a bit of a misnomer. It's a carryover term from tabletops to mean non-player characters, which are just that: Characters which are created and exist independent of player control. However, PbPRP's often skewer this line, because of the nature of PbPRP: That is, it's turn-based and not live play. The GM can't just answer your character's question in ten seconds, and sometimes a player just wants to buffer up their post with a conversation with an NPC. Depending on how authoritarian the GM is, this can be allowed, and it's perfectly acceptable.

Basically speaking, the term "NPC" in a PbPRP is typically used in place of what should be the proper term: Side character. Players control protagonists, GMs control everyone else, so if the NPC is being controlled by a player, but isn't going to "stay" as part of the player's repertoire, it's just a side character.

What NPCs are acceptable for players to control?
A: Ordinarily? Random pedestrians, no name characters, and so on. Like asking for directions is fine. Anything that doesn't derail the GM's plot is fine. Possessing important NPCs should only be done with permission, and you should make your intentions clear. Consider NPCs important to the plot to basically be the GM's characters. It would be impolite to simply take them over as it would be impolite for him to simply take your character over, right?

Are RPGs more enjoyable when the GM controls NPCs or when the players control NPCs?
A: Completely up to personal taste. I prefer a mix of both. Let players toy with lesser NPCs but keep more important NPCs in my own pockets. To each their own, though.

Let's B!tch. I feel it's a healthy release for our roleplay annoyances 2.0

Prince said
I think I'll let the beast return to its shackles after the last thread. I see no reason in provoking Brovo, as I'm sure he would love a 'bout with the Gentlemen Beast. He can be president, anyway. Princes have far more fun. ;)

I smell blood in the water, heh.

@On Topic: People who sacrifice good storytelling for creativity. Don't get me wrong, creativity is great, but if you are sacrificing the story for it, throwing away your fellow players, and going so far as to be incomprehensible, just to be "original"... Ahh... Yeah. That bothers me.

Let's B!tch. I feel it's a healthy release for our annoyances.

Lillian Thorne said
This is getting a bit off topic and starting to seem like a witch hunt. The offender has been asked to leave the thread and so far has done so. You all baiting him might get him back and that's a whole mess I don't want to deal with. I'll remind you all one of the big new rules of RPG is don't waste our time. So off with you all so I don't have to close this thread.

Also I would totally close this thread and just suggest reopening a new one with a fresh, minty scent.

Let's B!tch. I feel it's a healthy release for our annoyances.

Imperfectionist said I understand what you're saying, and I know we've already discussed this thing that you do, because of that thread. I just wanted to give a counterpoint to those "high-fives" I mentioned. Not everyone thinks your style is the superior one.Basically, in my head, I'm the girl watching from nearby, shaking my head in disappointment. I thought the original guy was being quite rude, but I think he deserved your particular brand of derisiveness. You should have let it go.EDIT: Honestly, I probably wouldn't have said anything if my quote hadn't been changed by Noxious. People trying to make me say something I heavily disagree with is a pet peeve.

The point of it was satire, but okay.

Let's B!tch. I feel it's a healthy release for our annoyances.

Imperfectionist said
-shrug- Brovo's just fishing for a bit of attention, but he was off his game today. Prince beat him to it.I didn't read it, because this topic of discussion has, in my opinion, been entirely resolved. There's nothing his "dissecting" bullshit can illuminate for me. It isn't entertaining for me, or funny, or anything other than annoying. Got nothing against the guy, but this thread was already won, and it wasn't by Brovo.So... I fixed it back.

Except Prince speaks in absolutes, his points are far, far too long showing he cannot condense his thoughts, and he goes to this extent...

Over playing pretend. Against a person who will not listen to him, whatsoever.

Meanwhile, I acknowledge that because it's an art, it's an entirely personal experience. To say that canon = auto-easier or canon = auto-harder is to make the same claim about fantasy, modern, sci-fi, or otherwise. It's a plain untrue statement. They both have skill sets involved: One involves creating a new character from scratch, while the other forces the author to operate within the confines of the preexisting character. It is patently false to declare one as easier than the other. Period. End of story. It drums down to "if you cannot understand the character's motivations, you will not succeed at writing within that character's mindset." Literally, that's it. Doesn't matter if it's Deadpool or your totally original character, Dreadpool.

Prince makes good points, but it's lost in the sea of babbling. He needs to learn to condense his points.

As for this, all I did was point out how utterly inane it is to have a chosen one complex about a hobby where the only qualification you need is the ability to have an imagination. There are people who do it better and who do it worse, granted, but there's no universal standard to apply here. Hell even if you were to consider role playing writing (which it patently isn't, but this thread isn't about that), look at how many forms of writing there are. Look at how many plot lines there are, forms of narration there are... There's poetry, there's journal-type writing, there's eastern style writing and western style writing. There isn't even universal consensus in which direction to read the text: The Japanese read right to left, while the western world reads left to right!

Really. That's it. That's why people are going "Brovo won" or "Brovo for president". Because I made a better argument with far less words. If Prince did the same, Prince would have won.

Note, this isn't to say that Prince was wrong. Again, had good points. (I liked the bit about interaction especially. That's damned true about role playing and I argue it effectively in the articles section in my last article.) It was just too damn long.

Let's B!tch. I feel it's a healthy release for our annoyances.

I heard there was someone challenging my throne to egotism, and I had to come see it for mys--

OutlawTorn said I'm beginning to feel like this community may need me.

... Shit. Well, lets start dissecting the frog. NOTE: Please don't take this as personally offensive, OutlawTorn, I'm simply going to counter your points, not demonize you as a person, or anything else.

Still.

OutlawTorn said I'm actively on 2 other forums.

That's nice. I'm not sure what this is supposed to qualify for.

OutlawTorn said No Pachamac. I'm beginning to feel like this community may need me.

No. This community needs no particular individual member save perhaps the moderators and administrators to keep the site running in a smooth-ish capacity. You, and me, we're just here to kick back and role play, or post in off-topic, spam, roleplay discussion, articles, contests when MDK reincarnates that... So on and so forth.

OutlawTorn said Like maybe that's why he was so adamant about my coming of all places.

Or maybe this is just a really chill place with lots of people.

OutlawTorn said Maybe this is a good thing, your feeling put down by my presence aside, of course.

OutlawTorn said I apologize for being fresh out of fucks to give, but it's been a rough month.

I apologize that your post seems to contradict this statement.

OutlawTorn said Wow!!! I've read your stuff, Pachamac... Slow it down...My quarrel is with those who wrestle with entry level, basic problems, saying stuff like "no one can write a canon character but the creator.">.< I mean that's so stupid it hurts my brain! If you truly believe that, you have no business writing with other people. It's called responsibility.Truly minuscule problems being treated like catastrophes.

Except that's how that person feels and you can't tell them that they're right or wrong? That is purely a personal preference. The only "stupidity" that could hurt the brain is if said person invaded your thread where you use canon characters and tried to tell you otherwise. Then, yeah, stupid, but your thread, you can deal with them appropriately. Otherwise, there's no such thing as a universal set of rules for the site beyond, you know, the site rules, which are pretty simple. Be Fonz cool, and don't post adult content like pornography. As well, obey the rules for each section, which are pretty damned loose, really.

And that's it!

OutlawTorn said Let me say it again, and then you can continue projecting your denial unto me:

Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod Zod~

OutlawTorn said You're my hero, HollywoodMole...It must be so hard... and yet you're still here, givin' it your best...*choked up*

OutlawTorn said your feeling put down by my presence aside, of course.

... Uhh... Captain, in just one page, we have detected an anomaly! It appears to be... Hypocrisy! Damn!

Suggestion: If you can't see how your statements are mocking, belittling, and putting other people down... You sincerely need to go revisit basic English. No, I'm not talking about English literature, I'm talking as in... English as a second language.

OutlawTorn said Because what bothers me is weakness and stupidity.In terms you'll grasp: YOU bother me.

Oh, finally! Some actual juicy content to dismember brutally!

OutlawTorn said I think if I'm bothering you, it's because what I'm saying challenges your comfy little bubble of denial and indecisiveness.

Fonz. Cool. What about this escapes you, Neo?

OutlawTorn said Several of you actually said no one can play canon characters but the creators. That's probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard any roleplayer say in 8 years.

[citation needed]

Also, wow, it's that's the dumbest thing you've heard, I'm sorry to say that you've obviously not gotten very far.

OutlawTorn said This makes me wonder how you even hold your own using your own characters. How inconsistent, basic, and awful they must be, if you can't play a character with tons of source material and background, showing you who that character is.

What? I don't use canon characters. I build my own universes, and play in them. I'd like to imagine my characters, many of which are now outright years old in real life, function just fine without the need for Naruto or Aragorn or someone else to hold their hand.

OutlawTorn said If you put aside the fact that you hate me and my forward approach, you'll find that in theory, a canon character is easier to play, because it's laid out neatly for you.

That's not a forward approach. That's something that's been done for centuries... Remakes, you ever heard of them? People have rewritten each other's stories for eons. That doesn't mean everyone is comfortable doing it, or feels they can do it justice. Just because you sincerely think you can, doesn't mean they do.

OutlawTorn said You have a clear and defined blueprint to guide you every step of the way.So I don't care what you think of me.

If you didn't care, you wouldn't keep responding.

Common Sense: 1.
OutlawTorn: 0.

Also, you said this before. So you know. When you're ready to actually be remotely consistent, maybe others will find your words credible.

OutlawTorn said Millions of roleplayers around the world will agree with me, because I'm right.

[citation needed]

Also, argumentum ad populum =/= actual evidence. Hell, it's not even that level of fallacy: It's quite literally a theoretical argumentum ad populum.

So, no, sorry.

OutlawTorn said Threads like this wouldn't even exist, if everyone had common sense, some conviction, and a little decisiveness.

Except no. Human beings will always have reasons to complain about each other in everything they do. For instance, earlier in this thread, I complained about someone constantly flaking out on me, and then raging at me when I moved on without them. It was absolutely irrational behaviour but I don't hate them for it and it made for an amusing story and it was good to blow off steam.

OutlawTorn said You'd have no need to write lengthy speeches about the problems you encountered, because you'd effectively manage them along the way.Do you really have nothing better to do with your RP time than bitch about shit that bothers you?

Or this is something they do on the side while waiting for others to post, to explore issues and blow steam and have a good laugh and be normal human beings.

OutlawTorn said I find it difficult to hold a conversation with someone who disregards everything I say to make me look like I'm wrong using vague points which are irrelevant to the core subject material.

He says as he makes no effort to try and counter argument or even prove this statement.

OutlawTorn said Just go ahead and say I make you uncomfortable because I'm speaking directly to you in this condescending manner. it's not the attitude, but my being right about YOU that bothers you.

Man, so much need to be right. It's almost like you don't even care about the answer, but more crave the feeling of being correct, and that's why you constantly talk down to people, and display flagrantly disrespectful attitudes.

OutlawTorn said But don't stoop to petty lows, trying to make me look like the idiot. Anyone here with an IQ over 50 knows it too. So I might not be so liberal about speaking on other's behalf.

---

That being said, I think we've all learned a valuable lesson today.

None of us are Neo and we should probably all be humble and respectful to each other. Because at the end of the day, this is a forum, where everyone congregates... To play pretend. With other people. When you offer advice, realize that it's just that: Advice. It's what you think you know. And someone else having a different opinion about how to properly go to imaginationland with your friends or with strangers is definitely not worth getting worked up over. It's maybe worth pitying and laughing at like a hyena.

Because seriously, lets just focus on having fun. That's the whole point.