Brovo

State-Church Separation

So Boerd said
No, if you refuse to provide evidence, then you have no possible superior claim to government, meaning religion and state are just as tolerable as atheism and state which you demonstrate is equally ddogmatic, therefore, I won the original purpose of the thread

Except the entirety of human history disagrees with you from all across the planet.

State-Church Separation

So Boerd said
Read the rest of the verse. He came not to abolish but fulfill. The law is fulfilled, and no longer applies. Read that chapter I cited.

"17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.…"

Until Heaven and Earth pass away. Until revelations occurs, the old laws remain in effect. Forever. That's the line in context. From your own bible. What more do I need to do, drag Jesus Christ himself down to tell you to your face?

State-Church Separation

So Boerd said
Come off it. Your Pope, Richard Dawkins already admitted they all were. Ample evidence has been provided that actually disproves your falsifiable claims.

My pope, Richard Dawkins? Of all the atheists you can think of, Richard Dawkins is the one you would make my pope?



Man you know nothing about atheism or the people who subscribed to it, do you? A closer version of a "pope" I guess would probably be Carl Sagan, or Bertrand Russell. The Jesus would probably be Marcus Aurelius...

State-Church Separation

So Boerd said
The old testament doesn't apply to Christians, so stop the strawman already. See: Acts chapter 15. Council of Jerusalem.Since you have given up on evidence, I believe that means I won the argument.

Except Jesus himself said he was not there to abolish the old laws. And Christians still refer to the old testament to justify bigotry and hatred by the millions, like against homosexuals.

If it helps you sleep better at night then sure, you can completely ignore the entirety of human history and evolution in favour of a book that tells you to kill people one minute and then talks about what kind of clothes you should wear the next.

State-Church Separation

So Boerd said
Seeing as I made a factual claim, simply stating that the murderers were atheist, I don't see why knowing why they did it in any way refutes that they were atheist.

Because Hitler was most certainly not an atheist and nobody can confirm what Stalin or Mao felt about religion beyond getting rid of it to impose their own fanatical cults of personality.

Another "atheist" regime is North Korea, where they deposed gods in exchange for making their leader a god who can kill you if you merely think badly of him. That's hardly atheist, wouldn't you say?

State-Church Separation

So Boerd said No, you haven't. QUOTE to me where you posted an authoritative link with numbers.

I don't have any, and you doubt it, like a skeptic.

So, as I said before: Good... Good...

So Boerd said You are right. However, if you were raised Catholic, and are a practicing Catholic in good standing with your church, I can safely say you have a Catholic inspired morality.

Except absolutely not. If a person followed the Catholic religious morality completely, following the teachings of the bible, they would become a deranged, schizophrenic psychopath. A religious morality from a catholic upbringing would tell someone to compulsively kill people who blaspheme god's name, or work on Sunday, or who don't scream for help loudly enough while being raped.

Morality is used to pick apart the bible, to take the things that make sense and throw away the stuff that is utter psychotic nonsense, like murdering people for working on Sunday. We've had morality since our species was formulated, and it's evolved over time as our societies have become more complex, entirely independent of religion. We have empathy and sympathy--these tell us not to harm our fellow human being where it can be avoided and make us feel for them when they are in pain. We evolved the basis of morality, because it's a survival trait in a social species. You can even see hints of morality here and there in less intellectually developed species on Earth, like dolphins will not leave their wounded family members behind, and wolves are willing to die for one another's pups even where it would be irrational and not save any of them.

Last I checked, wolves and dolphins don't have religion. So explain their basic morality, or how ours is somehow superior through religion when that very same religion has to have significant portions of its morality picked apart and tossed aside in order to keep society functional.

State-Church Separation

So Boerd said
Reading helps, Vortex.

Ehehehe... Hehehehehe...

State-Church Separation

So Boerd said The Chinese government is atheist.

Communist* not atheist, and even then, they aren't actually communist. They've been letting capitalism in, private enterprise, and so on. They're just a heavily left leaning nation at this point. You could almost compare them to Sweden with less civil liberties.

So Boerd said They still use their religiously derived morality in decision-making.

Actually, morality has been around before most religions, like code of laws. In fact, there are plenty of sources of morality that are not religiously derived. You don't need a religious morality to tell you not to kill someone, for example.

You know that... Right?...

So Boerd said The only wholesale butchers in these days the order of millions have been atheists.

Wrong again. You've been told numerous times and numerous reasons why but as always you just repeat yourself. You aren't here to discuss anything you're just here to stuff your opinion down people's throats in a desperate attempt to reinforce your own silly fantasies of a black and white universe.

So Boerd said Still no source on that 1 billion number. Now who is being irrational? Magic, tell him that number is false because it has no evidence.

Gave you plenty. You're just ignoring all of them because lolfucklogic. Oh well.

State-Church Separation

So Boerd said A number I have seen no evidence for. According to you, that means it's false.

So Boerd said As if religious people don't exist nowadays? Count the modern era too.

In the modern era, the vast majority of the first world is secular in government, that is, it has little to no religious influence whatsoever...

...And we're now actually pretty damned reasonable peaceful now that our leaders don't think they're talking to God.

So Boerd said Nothing to do with the UN security council, including atheists like China, voting unanimously that Iraq was in violation of its disarmament obligations and the ceasefire? Have some evidence. UN security council resolution 1441. You're the most dogmatic person I have ever met. I haven't seen so much as a Reddit link from you in terms of any evidence ever.

Why the hell would I use Reddit as a credible source unless it used other, more credible sources? It's a bronze level citation at best. I'm pretty sure everyone knows that Bush thought he was in office because God wanted him there. Here, silver level citation, a news source. It's a slanted source that tends to go with centre-left leanings, so, take it with a grain of salt.

Also...

So Boerd said including atheists like China

Your American education is failing you. Hard.

State-Church Separation

So Boerd said Fixed.When a dictator says "I do this for God!" you automatically put him in the religious category even if he contradicts himself in private, but if he says "I do this for Marx!" Nooooo, suddenly he has to do it accurately. And screw it, I don't need to defend Islam and stuff. Let's you and me tally up all deaths caused by Protestants, of which I am one, and all deaths caused by atheists, see which number is bigger. I don't need to defend all religions, as I believe most are false.

Zero. They didn't kill in the name of atheism. They killed in the name of state power and control.

Hitler: Fascism, regardless of whether or not he was a catholic.
Stalin: State control, regardless of whether or not you would call it communist.
Mao: State control, regardless of whether or not you would call it communist.

How the fuck would you even kill in the name of atheism? Atheism doesn't have principles, or rules, or guidelines beyond one simple premise: You don't believe in God.

People generally don't get genocidal over that. It's just "I don't think there's a God." It's not like Christianity where it has a book that explicitly tells you to murder people who work on Sunday. We don't have a book. We don't have doctrines.

But then you're apparently incapable of basic mathematics, when you would like to compare the death toll caused by people who had access to modern day mass murder methods with a much greater population density, to ancient people stabbing each other with sharp bits of metal in a much lower population density. (A big part of it being disease and rampant murder back then which kept population levels down.) It's an invalid comparison. Do you really, sincerely believe, that if the Pope had access to nuclear weapons back during the era of the Crusades, that he wouldn't have used them to turn the middle east to glass because the voice in his head told him all the evil people were there? Or that Crusaders--who rampantly murdered and raped innocent people, often out of boredom--wouldn't have gone on rampant killing sprees against defenseless women and children if they had access to machine guns and tanks?

When I stated that over a billion people died due to religion, that's counting every single religion on the planet, and every single murder justified with religion on the planet. From the Salem witch trials to the Crusades to Tokugawa's order to mass execute the Christians in Japan, to the purification movements in Tibet, to the mass exterminations of genocidal rage and hatred between Hindus and Buddhists in India, to the Nanjing Rebellion, to the rape and slaughter of the Native Americans to try and indoctrinate them into protestant and catholic religions... The list goes on, and on, and on....

I'm not exaggerating. Over a billion people have died in the name of one god or another, as a victim or as a perpetrator, whether that's Vikings, Crusaders, Romans, or terrorists from the middle east blowing up skyscrapers with airplanes.

And yet, as I've also said before to your illiterate ass, I don't want religion banned. I've never wanted religion banned. There are millions of good and decent people who believe there is a deity, in one form or another. I just don't want it in my government, because it'll either be scapegoated for heinous crimes or make the people holding the keys to the nuclear weapons think that the voices in their head aren't their own insanity or paranoia, but God telling them to go glass the middle east. We started a fucking war in Afghanistan and Iraq not only for revenge, but because President Bush literally thought he was doing God's Will in starting those wars. Do you know how many American soldiers have died? At this point, for no fucking reason?

All because your president thought he was totally justified in knocking over the primarily secular government of Iraq because God put him in charge and God cannot be wrong.

And this isn't even state and religion going hand in hand. This is just a religious person who is mildly deranged in charge of shit and using it to scapegoat his absurd, murderous actions.