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    1. ASTA 12 yrs ago

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Do your ears work?

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because everyone believes that point defense is totally and completely inadequate and that this energy screen would be totally and completely useless.


I'm not saying it's useless.

What I'm saying is that it's not an impenetrable defense field that completely overshadows a piece of major military offensive hardware.
A nuclear missile will damage, but the station is not small. It's not like today's ISS. It's much bigger, and holds well over one hundred people. Over five hundred. There are miners, station crew, extra pilots, a couple squads of CI marines, researchers and scientists, engineering crew and construction workers.


See, the problem with nuclear missiles is that they have scalability. Nuclear warheads in general can be made smaller and (in theory) be made to where you can squeeze one megaton of explosive energy out of a single kilogram of warhead material—though the rule of the day is that the larger the warhead, the more powerful the explosion. Also, refer to my previous comment regarding nuclear-shaped charges and their effectiveness in space. The size of the station matters little if it’s being ravaged by a Tsar Bomb-grade warhead (equal to 50 megatons of TNT, though the USSR planned for a 100 megaton bomb, but were concerned over the survivability of the bomber that would delivery such a weapon), and with advancements in technology come advancements in nuclear weaponry. We won’t even get into antimatter-initiated fusion warheads (though such a weapon would be undeniably expensive to create).

I don’t think you know how frail a space station is. Note that modern space stations get gibbed by tiny specs of dust that are traveling at 25,000 miles per hour; they typically strike with the force of a .44 caliber round, but this is enough to cause serious structural damage to a station or satellite, which can lead to the death of crewmembers (vented oxygen and the sort). Thankfully, the deadliness of such particles is lessened by the presence of strategically-placed Whipple shields, which operate in a similar fashion to spaced armor.

While a future space station could be made more resilient, they aren’t going to be floating tanks.

A nuclear missile would certainly break the current energy screen, but the CI are trying to make it so that it won't. Nuclear missiles are the most common space-faring missiles, since they go up and back down. An engagement between to space powers would undoubtedly be measured by who can withstand more nuclear missiles, with the line of thinking you all inhabit.


No. The first nation that throws a nuke in this RP brings about the end of the RP itself. You’re all in a MAD scenario. Once one bomb goes off, they all go off.

…But I’m going to assume this isn’t case because apparently two world wars occurred without the detonation of a single bomb (this conclusion being drawn up by the fact that the planet isn’t a radioactive wasteland right now).

And you say everything as if point defense would not have advanced. As if it would have stayed the same or become inferior, even though scientists that are closer to
a feat that no one else has even begun to encounter the possibility of are also working on making point defense efficient and powerful enough to stop weapons before they are tested against energy screens.


Then you’re going to be battling against the continued advancement of missile technology. Missiles don’t stop being effective when PD comes on the scene. I’ve already said this.

Additionally, just as missiles aren’t infallible, point-defense succumbs to the same short end of the stick. Your stations are not invincible and they do not retain space superiority or whatever it is you’re trying to shoe horn into the RP. Your nation isn’t even big enough to call any shots when it comes to the political scene, while its status as a space-based nation is a serious weakness in its own right. For example, how in the world are you getting the raw material needed to sustain yourself let alone develop new technologies when you have zero planetary holds?


You are not going to be talking about how everything would be so against point defense if it could have advanced farther than missiles have. I do not see missiles being fired every day across oceans. There is not as much need to make an anti-point defense missile, and so the funding and progress of such would not be as fast as a group of researchers with materials that others would never get in the same amounts with technology that is more durable than others with as much funding as they need. It is lower priority elsewhere to make weapons that would render point defense useless, while the advancement and usefulness of point defense is vital for the Ceres, and so it will be going much faster than the anti.


Why would PD advance farther than missiles have? Both technologies have a mutual line of development as detection and stealth technology does, in that both try to out-do the other. When radar stealth advances, radar becomes more powerful, for example. It’s a constant battle that probably won’t let up any time soon.

Also, the nations on the surface of the planet have every reason to chase after enhanced missile technology and more sophisticated point-defense technology. Missiles are a critical part of modern warfare and so are suitable countermeasures to missiles. Are you again trying to say that your nation is superior to everyone else’s? Let’s go over the signs of your powerplaying:

1) Is attempting to render the most powerful weapons devised by man obsolete by investing heavily into anti-missile technology and energy shield technology. Said weapons, which are nuclear armaments, are one of the few effective methods of dealing with his space station in a timely and efficient fashion.

2) Is trying to run a space-based nation that cannot be touched by standard ground-based weapons. The notion that the station cannot be touched by ground-based weaponry is incorrect.

3) Claims to possess uncontestable reign in space, and claims that his faction possesses the capacity to strike fear into the surface powers by using space-to-surface weapons. This is woefully false and downright suicidal on your part.

4) Is trying to monopolize on the design and production of specific military and nonmilitary equipment—most notable of which are energy shield technology, fusion technology and missile defense technology. All three of these technologies are major game changers when it comes to war and national economics.

So no, you would not be able to just wipe out the station with a flick of your finger. If push comes to shove, the station would be evacuated and pushed out of orbit, towards, say, the Moon. Then they would start claiming the Moon and Mars for the Ceres Independence, claiming that because they are unwelcome in Earth and in orbit around it, they'll just absorb all those superexpensive colonies up there like the Antarcticans did to the Antarctic outposts countless years before.


Because your super-heavy station can truly out-accelerate an incoming MIRV on an attack vector. Holy fuck do you have access to graviton technology or something? Super sensors of some sort? What’s your secret?

Also you act like the moon can’t be attacked by Earth. How are you going to claim the moon without the powers of Earth stopping you? Your plan makes zero sense.

And besides, you sound more like this is supposed to be superrealistic instead of just a roleplay. Point defense will have expanded more than the superduper unstoppable missiles that you keep blathering on about, and Duck has already said no orbital weapons platforms, which means you won't have the type that fires nuclear missiles or projectiles in the first place, which eliminates the need to have advancement in that area in the immediate future.


It isn’t about being realistic. I don’t care about the realism, frankly.

What I do care about is someone going on about being invincible when it’s been clearly proven that this is not the case in the slightest. Also, missiles aren’t orbital platforms, and if you’re trying to pull that rule on me, when are you going to apply that to yourself?

The missiles aren’t ‘super’ and they are not ‘unstoppable’, but your space station abides by the same tenants.
Point defense would be used against fighters, bombers, missiles, and if they are detected before they come into range, ballistic weaponry such as high-density rounds and the like.

Lasers would be most efficient in space for use as point defense: more powerful lasers would be powerful, but would be stressful on energy because of its energy-guzzling properties, even for the CI's fusion reactors, which are the best energy reactors known. I say this because these fusion reactors have to keep these shuttles going for millions of kilometers without breaking down, sputtering, or the smallest malfunction, and they are powering countless systems, including life support.

Larger weapons would be used against larger targets. Right now, a place such as Ceres, a fortified dug-in position that is inside a landmass of some kind would require very, very powerful weapons. As in 20 megaton nuclear warheads or greater to just start scratching the surface. If there are space battles, it won't be decided by how many large ships, but rather how many small ones. Fighters and bombers would be instrumental, because they are easier to man and build, and they can attack with more accuracy. Missiles and light energy weapons could be attached, and would make someone having carriers and the other not be the deciding factor in a battle.


I’m unsure what laser technology is like in this particular setting, but I think it should be noted that lasers take time to destroy a target; lasers are dissimilar to standard ordinance, such as conventional cannons, coilgun, railgun, or any of the two unique gun types I listed in the post predating this one, in that they do not have the ability to score a disabling hit upon an incoming missile with a single round. Cannons and the sort do (for obvious reasons).

If you do have access to lasers of such high caliber, I will begin to question how you’re dealing with the waste heat and how the optical technology you’re using in such a laser is able to withstand a beam of such intensity without failing. Depending on the pulse rate of the laser, the spectrum you’re using, the material your laser is trying to burn through, the presence of suitable electronic countermeasures/stealth technology (disrupting the laser’s fire-control systems by jamming the space station’s radar suite, IR-targeting module or otherwise creating a very stealthy cruise missile of sorts), your station could fall to an incoming missile without even realizing it. Missiles could also be deployed on the other side of the planet and ride the Earth’s orbit towards your station—engines cold and undetectable--- with the missile’s stealth systems engaged until it was within suitable striking distance. The missile could even be equipped with an ablative surface that takes the brunt of the laser beam by burning away in the process. An active-cooling casing could also be integrated into the missile system, which would allow it to further resist laser fire.

Also, point-defense is not infallible. The modern CIWS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close-in_weapon_system)—which is mounted on modern warships to protect them against anti-ship missiles—has a relatively poor success rate. You could increase the chances of scoring a hit against a missile by implementing overlapping coverage with many CIWS-type units, but then the enemy could simply saturate your point-defense by launching literal missile swarms. You can’t shoot all of them down, Wilson. That’s not how real-life PD works. Even railgun point-defense is not perfect, because you still need to keep in mind that railgun rounds still are constrained by travel time.

It’s rather foolish to think that missiles suddenly stop developing because railguns and lasers come on the scene.


One: This isn't armor. This is an energy screen, and THEN armor. The energy screen would take most of the nuclear detonation.
Two: Point defense, including the railguns that are also meant to be shooting at any shuttles or fighters or something will also fire on a nuclear missile or shell.
Three: Pulse lasers are also on the New Point, and would also hit a nuclear missile or projectile.
Four: Correct your missile's or your projectile's course in-transit won't do anything. The targeting system will take note and will compensate.
Five: A bunker so deep that a bunker buster won't break it would mean that you wouldn't be able to fire from it, either. It'd be a safe place, not a fire-a-missile place.

A fighter wouldn't be able to get close, and a missile wouldn't either. And if a nuclear weapon were to hit the energy screen, the station might take medium damage, but would not be destroyed. Then, you'd piss of the Ceres Independence, and they'll go looking for uranium-rich sources, or, even better, they'll start an antimatter program. A ten-megaton nuclear weapon wouldn't be able to compare to the same with antimatter.


I’m going to assume that this energy screen is a standard science fiction energy shield. When something hits it, one of several things will occur:

1) The shield will lose energy and eventually collapse from enduring too much energy. Suitable time passing will cause the shield to reappear.

2) The shield will stop the projectile from penetrating, but it will not stop the projectile’s momentum from being imparted onto your station. Ballistic vests work on this same basic principle, in that while a round may not penetrate the vest, the ribs are still broken, bruises still form and the body’s internal organs may suffer damage. However, the wearer of the vest still lives.

3) You’re trying to pass this shield off as an invincible barrier of doom, in which case you need to reexamine your nation and correct it as Duck instructs you too.

As for armor:

A nuclear missile is pretty much going to vaporize whatever you’re coating your station in. Did you read any of the links that I posted? They’re rather interesting reads if I do say so myself. Try Googling the effects of a nuclear explosion, or perhaps question Google about the temperatures generated by the detonation of a nuclear armament.

Also, you can still fire from a deep bunker. Why wouldn't you be able to? Have you ever seen a shore gun emplacement before? What about the ballistic missile sites that are buried around the United States?

EDIT:

Wilson, if you are worried about your nation suddenly being wiped out, you should take into consideration three things:

1) No one is going to randomly destroy your nation. That would be powerplaying and, quite frankly, not very fun.

2) As a vulnerable space-based nation, your faction should seriously consider not attacking the surface of planets. Your faction is woefully outgunned when compared to even one of the smaller powers of Earth. They can and will destroy you if you anger them.

3) I’m shocked your faction hasn’t been greased already, because you do in fact pose a serious risk to national security seeing as how you’re making use of very powerful surveillance equipment and can attack cities, military bases and other ground targets with shocking ease.
Somewhat interested in the RP, but first thing's first:

@Wilson:

Space assets aren't immune to ground-based retaliation.

With the advent of the spy satellite, anti-satellite weapons were created as a respectable counter to such daunting technology. Space stations, no matter the armor that they sport, aren't going to stand up to the point-blank detonation of a nuclear missile launched from a mass driver, a combustion light-gas gun, an electrothermal chemical gun, or your run-of-the-mill air superiority fighter. Integrating a nuclear-shaped charge into such a missile enables the projectile to not only deliver its payload from a much longer range, but it also does far more damage than a conventional nuclear weapon of similar size could output, as the radiation and heat generated from the explosion is focused in the shape of a cone as opposed to a rapidly-expanding ball. Bomb-pumped lasers are also a viable, cheap and disposal solution to spaceborne assets.

You can also use standard rocket-assisted 'smart' shells that can correct their own courses. Much cheaper, though perhaps less reliable. Unsure.

Ground weaponry can also be made larger, more powerful and be better protected than any space station or military-grade spaceship that 2080-era Earth can conceivably come up with due to the very strict weight, internal volume and cost limitations forced upon spacecraft and space stations. Hiding your launch facilities and gun platforms within Mount Everest, for example, affords you nigh-immunity to spacebased weaponry. If a mountain can laugh off a multi-megaton yield nuclear weapon, it's going to laugh off a railgun shot with impunity---especially one fired from space, which is going to be smaller. The threat of bunker-buster munitions grating on your nerves? Dig your bunkers deeper, for you have the mining technology to do it. Reinforced tunnels and hardened bunkers are unbelievably resistant to kinetic-based munitions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenne_Mountain_nuclear_bunker

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_gun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion_light_gas_gun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_gun

Information on plausible space weaponry:

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacegunconvent.php
Vilageidiotx said
When writing about them you should attend to how their biological differences would effect their culture. This is a better approach than copying Earth cultures would be, because whereas copying earth cultures is easy what you will end up with will be pretty nooby.


...Yeah. This sort of approach to world building and species design? You don't see this too often in the Nation Roleplay section of the forum. Personally, I feel that this is a bad thing.

I'm unsure what it is about some of the people there, but they often react aggressively (at least from my own experience) to sapient creatures that don't subscribe fully, if at all, to the human psychological model---though I've found that these negative reactions general surface when wars start cropping up. I guess armchair generals don't like thinking outside the box when they're faced with something that basically rewrites infantry combat on a massive scale.

At any rate, I'm happy to see this much thought put into an alien species. Having been exposed to so many human copy-cat alien civilizations, I kind of assumed the Tkrai were just another bat-human knockoff.

Glad I was wrong.
Locating the helmet’s power switch wasn’t an issue, but attempting to sift through the assorted ranges of ambient radio channels that milled about in the air made quite the daunting endeavor. The helmet was a more recent and relatively dissimilar variant of the older GEAR pilot helmets that were in service during Kitsune Peril’s prime, with Arcade’s habit of forgetting the smaller and finer details of life—like fragments of his GEAR pilot’s technical training— not doing him any favors. Within due course, the king cheetah connected himself to whichever transmission signal that was blaring greetings at him. He didn’t bother to look, but determined that speaking first made for a superior option.

“Ah! A voice!” Arcade exclaimed. His helmet rested in his hands, with the microphone pointed towards his face and mouth. “Kensington—or Ken is it? I saw you in the briefing room when the boss was revving everyone up for the up-and-coming mission.”
Dinh AaronMk said
Nothing I can call up so far. The only people that have had any significant dealings with them so far would be me and Vilage. Googer was also somewhat responsible for their development.On my end at least: the Tkrai live in the lowest quarter of Kangchai, that being formally known as the Under Quarter. Informally that area is known as Under Town, Bat Town, Cesspit, The Pit, and so on. And given its depth it only really gets light briefly when the sun is at the right angle over head and the gas giant Brahma is in orbit around isn't in the way, but that'd block the sun for that day or week or whatever anyways.The Tkrai there largely live in squalor and are paid the minimum of international credits for their work keeping the pump houses working. There's not a lot of legit credits in circulation there so a lot of "trade" is done off the books with the improvised and currently over-inflated black-market currency known as "Likes".I did writing about it in my last post and in my next I intend to explore the Tkrai there in full as I move ahead with my current central arc. So we'll meet the firs prominent Tkrai and the local Tkrai Advocacy Group representative.Beyond the Kangchai Tkrai refugees there's likely no uniform culture so I wouldn't worry about representing the race as a whole. So long as you're aware of the numerous local groups for consistency purposes then you're fine, unless you're on the other side of the world from the safe zone.


I see.

Well, let me throw this concept up for evaluation:

I have this idea of a human establishment hat has lived outside of the safe zone for many generations; this same community is moderately-sized, and has a relatively large presence in the wilds, but has since made deep connections with their Tkrai neighbors to the point where both species have begun to intermingle for the sake of increased productivity and survival chances. Technology has been traded in exchange for information pertaining to the local fauna and flora, geographical features of the landscape and access to the deep underground complexes where the Tkrai make their homes (which may lead to valuable gems and ores which can be used for industry and the sort). The perfect bro-mance if anything.

Because they don't care much for the other human governments of the world, this human faction has more or less allied itself with the Tkrai of the wild zone of Brahma, with both conducting regular strategic joint-raids against mercenary companies, mining missions and logging operations that draw too close to their jungle home in order to sustain themselves; their profound use of modern weaponry, specifically light transports, powered exoskeletons and other military-grade hardware, makes them far more annoying to deal with than standard tribal peoples armed with spears and whatnot. Things have only become worse since the Tkrai have gotten their hands (or paws...or claws...or whatever they use) on this same weaponry.

I'm unsure where I'm going to take this from here, but that's the political rundown of it. Historical information, and the reasons behind such an uncanny alliance, are another problem entirely. I'll think of something of course, because I want this brain fart to grow into something functional and awesome.

Also: the current nations of Brahma have only been active for 50 or so years, correct? Or has Brahma been colonized before, near the beginning of Mankind's expansive conquest of the cosmos, which could result in some nations being a century, two centuries or perhaps almost three centuries old?
This roleplay interests me for three reasons:

One, it's a science fiction roleplay. Science fiction is one of my favorite writing genres.

Two, It takes place on a single planet, which is relatively uncommon when it comes to science fiction NRPs and NRP-hybrids. Small scale is best scale.

And three, it puts strong emphasis on character interaction and, if I'm not mistaken, character development. Large-scale NRPs seem to always go over terribly for me, because playing a single planet in a science fiction NRP makes you a prime target for invasion. This becomes overbearingly annoying when you're trying to focus on something other than who has the strongest space fighter or the most powerful army of steroid-infused space marines--if you know what I mean.

Before I go into some light detail about my idea, is there any information on the Tkrai other than that which is listed in the OP?
Well, I've decided to withdraw my interest from Interstellar-Ascension.

While it's a solid-enough roleplay manned by a decent GM and a well-rounded collection of writers, I find myself lacking the inspiration and drive needed to continue working on my current faction concept. Part of the issue stems from the fact that the roleplay itself is on too grand of a technological scale for me to properly work with. Suffice to say, I can't quite bring myself to run a near-future Earth-like faction in a galaxy that's 1,000 years in the future; having access to the powerful technology that would inevitably come with such a boost in time isn't my style of going about a science fiction nation roleplay.

It's like running a WWII-era nation in 2014, kind of. If that comparison works.

Have fun I guess? Maybe if a character-driven plot comes about, I'll resurface to take part---if possible that is.
Working on a post. I'll probably be submitting it within a day or so.
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