BB

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thewizardguy said
Wait, so it allows her to know everything that was ever written down, ever? Wouldn't that make her omniscient, pretty much?

No, it's more like if they look at something and invock the authority they know the "truth" about it. So it's less knowing everything, and more like knowing the "truth". It's conceptually better than Detectives Authority, but I would say Detectives Authority is better, since it gives you Knox.

It's a really weird concept because Umineko is really meta with its mechanics. It's the same with the nasu verse; it's half why this discussion has been going on so long. Weird universes can get. . .weird.

Well, if Fragarch hit Stein should be alive if Darkside gets him out of there and works on getting him stable and healed up

The scenario's are as follows;

Fragarch works. Darkside does not help Stein. Stein bleeds out.

Fragarch works. Darkside helps Stein. Stein recovers.

Fragarch hits wrong heart. Darkside helps stein. Stein recovers.

Fragarch hits wrong heart. Darkside does not help Stein. Stein bleeds out.

There are three layers of argument to get Fragarch not to work, so I'd say it's likely one of the first two. And it ought to be the second, as long as Darkside gets him out of there. Gilgamesh doesn't seem to want to hurt Stein anymore. I think he originally just wanted him to go make sure Mia was safe, so I doubt he'd attack Darkside and Stein on their way out.

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Also, in regards to the Stein helping Lily, I think Carmilla would've likely let him help her if he directly participated in the game by "betting" on Lily. However sending an ambassador was seen as an insult because it's as if he's insulting Carmilla, the three players, and her game by saying "This isn't even important enough for me to show up for." Of course he was sort of preoccupied fighting Gilgamesh, so he had a reason. But alias, that's that as they say.

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thewizardguy said
Okay. I was just wondering if this thing could be used to just go back in time, because that would be a pain.

Conceptual weapons like Fragarch and Gae Bolg are soul crushing weapons, but they only do what they're designed to do, so they have limitations and counters. For example, after this point you should know not to use a trump card against Gilgamesh, thus Fragarch will no longer be a problem.

For example, using Fragarch on Gae Bolg would result in a double KO.

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thewizardguy said
Okay, so imagine if Stein had missed with his attack. Gilgamesh would have fled or something (hypothetical situation). Years later, he would have thrown the dagger. Would the dagger turn back time all the way to the event of the trump card attack being used?

Hmmmmmmmmmm, no, it wouldn't be a response that way and it'd be out of range.

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supertinyking said
With stine dead, it gave darkside some time. Some time, to take out some filth."You there! Brat, what is your name?" He barks to the man in all golden armor. His voice was horse, but oddly chilling.

You can still save Stein, but you clearly need to get him out of there now. I wouldn't suggest fighting while you can do that.

thewizardguy said
I know this. However, he wasn't countering God-Killer Resonance, or he would have used it when God-Killer Resonance was used. Instead, he countered Stein's strongest attack, which is Soul Purge, the attack he used to kill Gilgamesh. And he already had his heart ready before he launched that attack.

Like I said, is it "Steins" heart?

Question? What if the target can survive without a heart?

Then they can continue on. In this scenario, Steins body should still be nearly cut in half, since Fragarch leaves a mess.

However it's "possible" to pull him out of there and for Darkside to bring him back as you had planned.

For things that are "unkillable", that's what Gae Bolg is for.

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GuyYouWishYouDidntKnow said
Wiz, I'm sorry to say that you completely misunderstood Fragarach. It isn't a blow meant to destroy countries or worlds. It is a blow meant to beat people with those kinds of powers. It is a conceptual trick that warps time. Bazett's Fragarach can be used when an enemy brings out their trump card, a supreme ability of theirs, but once that condition is met it's already over. It is a top-rate conceptual weapon that alters the chain of cause and effect. It is used as a "reaction" to a super attack, in this case Stein's Resonance, but alters time to strike the enemy before their attack is used. Before Stein had even used his Resonance, he had already been killed by Fragarach. This was before his Resonance activated. The heart grabbing doesn't work because he'd already died. Even if it didn't, that's not how Fragarach works. All discounting BB's shenanigans. I'll say more depending on how much BB wants to say, seeing as he's better at Nasu than myself.

Yup, that's the basic idea of what Fragarch does. It's an anti trump card weapon that's designed for flashy super moves that are supposed to end a fight in an instant. Of course super moves can be power ups as well, this was demonstrated when Fragarch worked on God Hand in Fate/Ataraxia. It's the sort of weapon you have to use normal attacks against.

Of course even if Fragarch hit his heart, there's a possibility for him to be revived by Darkside, but he's certainly not going to be able to get up from that and continue the fight. His body would probably snap in half if he did.

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However even if you teleported that heart, was it "Steins" heart?

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Tyki said
fair enough

Tis what I do.

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Tyki said
wonderful and how might i know you're not lying or saying this just because?

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Tyki said
i've been told to assume to go as if there is no gm anymore

Elsa is still around, she's the co gm, so you'll need her to approve your character.

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Whelp since Lax can't post it;



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