Brovo

Legend of Renalta 2: Reborn

There. Posted. Zed only gets one line.

Legend of Renalta 2: Reborn

"That is for disrespecting your queen. Her arse is of no concern to you and you'll find it in you to trouble yourself not to make such disrespectful marks in future." --Muderok, Page 1.

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West Watch Tower

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Abida Qisaf would notice nothing particularly wrong with the militia save the shimmer in their eyes. It reflected back at her like water, and their cheerful expressions seemed utterly wrong for what the situation around was. Still, further examination proved critical, the breeze that came through had no impact on their clothing. They were unaffected, ultimately, by their environment. The ravens too each respectively seemed out of place, but for altogether different reasons. They seemed much heavier than their initial, small frame belied based on the way the grass had flattened beneath their feet. Strange, indeed.

Aëyr's only significant action to wield a stone in her sling also yielded no reaction from the militia at the top of the tower. The closest raven to her, however, only a few feet away, cawed in anger, and the woman that stood beside it grabbed her arm in pain. If it wasn't already apparent, these ravens were not ordinary feathered fiends, by any stretch of the imagination.

"Naream does no significant action, and the ravens, in turn, hold no malice for him. Instinctively they even seemed more comfortable around him, though the look in their eyes betrayed less friendly thoughts.

Esyllt Boudica also, in turn, committed to no significant acts within the area. Passively standing and acting as rear guard, she saw nothing of any remote interest whatsoever beyond what had already been noticed.

Maevan Lucre had arrived and apparently found herself equally perplexed with what plan to execute in order to move forward."

A face hidden in shadows frowned in disappointment as she puts a quill and piece of parchment down. A big red button and not one had thought of simply pushing it... What a depressingly paranoid lot! Just as the one who orchestrated it all was about to give up and hit the trigger on the detonator out of boredom, a wondrous voice rang out, so lovely and small! So, from the top of the watch tower a young girl no older than twelve, with wild brown hair and a brown complexion to her skin appeared. Sitting on the edge of the watch tower facing the group, she dangled her legs and waved with a childish grin, full of mischief and yet somehow curled slightly in irritation. "Hiyaaaaaa~ Hark hark hark!" She says before pulling out a chess board. "I waaaannaaaa plaaay! The head of the carnival left me here and wouldn't say why, but told me if I play a game with you Queen's Blades peoples, then if you win, the little peoples go free!"

She twirls a pawn between her index and middle fingers, rolling it underneath one and over the other in a figure eight pattern as her purple coloured eyes looked down on them all with a twisted sense of grandeur and self-importance, like a prideful actor in a play. "Buuut... If you looose..." The pawn snaps between her fingers, displaying unusual strength, or clever illusion. "... Got it?... Soooo..." She gets back onto her feet, remaining on the top floor. "Who wants to play with me!"

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East Watch Tower

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As Kasim's bolt was loosed and Dread Fang attacked, Dirge stood still, not making a single reaction as his two comrades screamed in bloody anguish. Another moment passed and the orc took a single glance at Zayn, whose attempted attack was given away by attempting to buy time for his scarab companion, said companion who was busily lamenting the taste of dirt and wood. With a single backhand, he knocked Zayn several feet away, but the strike wasn't to injure or kill, it was merely to push away. A moment of hesitation follows with the orc's voice passing through Zayn's mind. "Telepath..." The orc grunts. "...Nice trick..." He was likely referring to Zayn's empathic connection. In tandem with Kasim's subliminal messaging, it must have at least a little influence upon the orc, even through his own telepathy and battle training.

The ravens fly from his shoulder pads as he takes a couple steps away from the bomb and the ones who had been working upon it. After a few moments it became apparent that the ones who had been working upon the bomb were merely animated dolls made out of wood and dirt, fashioned with make-up and magic to look real despite being toys. The illusion shattered, they went limp. The ravens on the other hand each landed on the ground and shapeshifted into orcs themselves, smaller ones albeit, likely half-orcs, both wielding leather armour, a steel shield, and a war axe. One wore a silver helmet, the other did not, was about the only remarkable difference the two shared.

Dirge bows, as do the two half-orcs. "Lady Alicia." He then looks around at the group. "Five versus three." His lip curls. "You should have brought more of your atrocious militia to fight orcs." He quickly pulls the two handed warhammer off his back and yells loudly and proudly, the kind that only an orc warlord might have. "DAREK! ORAN! TO WAR!" Darek, the one with the silver helmet, moved with Oran to face Kasim and Alicia, while Dirge moved towards Zayn and the scarab. He frowned as he looked upon them both, and spoke with telepathy to the entire group, to make his intentions clear. "If you flee now, I will not have to kill you. Being human and..." His look turns to one of perplexity. "...Bug... I would understand."

As strange as his master was, the knight followed his duty to the letter... Whether he liked it or not.

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Town Square

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"A B-Bomb?! A BOMB?!??!" One of the five men near the fountain started to weep. "WE ARE ALL GOING TO D--" The man who had initially greeted them with fear hushed the man with a flick of his wrist. It was apparent this was the highest ranked of the militia here, or perhaps simply the most respected. A young man, white and a little on the short side, though with a pair of astonishingly silver eyes now that the vampire could get a good look at him. His brood was certainly not that of Diana, however, or the sun would have surely burned him by now in his panicked state. "M-my name is W-Wayne, my l-lady, I ap-pologize, th-there is a haze in our eyes--"

One of the militia stops Thailen just as she is about to reach the fountain, pulling out his short sword and threatening her with it. "S-STOP!" He yells out in fright as Wayne turns and glares at him. "C-c-calm." He tries to say, still shaking in fear at whatever was going on. The man did not listen. "How do I know you are not one of them! YOUR SKIN! I see it beneath the skin your blood is red like demons!" He cries out in fear as one of his larger comrades shakes his head and then hits him hard on the back of the head, knocking him out cold. He bows politely to Thailen. "Liverian born myself. Name's Eldrick... What he was trying to say is don't touch the fountain." It seemed the mere presence of the two Queen's blades was enough to start calming the rest of them down, when Wayne had started to calm at the presence of the Diana brood vampire. This was only furthered by Laenaia, whose magic soothed it further, and as a bonus spent little of her own energy to accomplish.

Rayvon's challenge was the last straw as one of the militia clapped slowly. A man with utterly no remarkable features save the way his silver eyes looked upon them all, like Wayne's but with hunger and vicious intent. "Not bad, children." He snaps his fingers and at the core of the fountain, the bomb was revealed to them. "... However..." He looks at the drow, licking his lips. "(Drow): You are not the only masters of spiders, priestess..." With that said in the Drow language, a pair of large spiders come bursting through the door of a house nearby. The militia cry out again, save for Wayne, as a few spirits 'appear', likely ghosts of ancestors across this town, though all the magically inclined there would feel this disgusting abuse of magic from the illusionist himself, the vampire. Wayne looks back in confusion. "Jeremy?" The vampire shook his head. "James has a... Unique way with words that I could not ignore, brother." Wayne growls in anger and immediately sides with the Queen's Blades, while the rest of the militia remained frozen in terror.

The two spiders took positions guarding the fountain, while Jeremy vanished from sight, invisible to the eye, but whose general presence could still be felt. Wayne looked around in confusion, his fangs present for all to see. "What is the plan?" He asks aloud as his heritage grew clearer the two vampires there: He was of Malaki's brood.

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Raven's Inn

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"Mirror mirror on the wall..." James was reciting something that related to no particular story, and tapped his lip as he pondered Gryff's question. He might have even answered had it not been for Maher, lashing out with his icy staff. James however merely grinned as one of the militia suddenly bolted from his position to take the blow, being impaled on the icy spike at the end of the spear he looks up, his lips moved in tandem with James' lips. "Why... I had a family..." James then chuckles as the man's life fades away entirely. The rest of the militia unsheathed their various weapons and looked at Maher. With a snap of James' fingers they spoke in unison. "You killed, you killed, that's a crime you know." James then shakes his head and looks at the middle aged man who slowly got back up to his feet, disturbed by the sight of his men being so easily turned into pawns. "The guardian is big and heavy. That is all you need to know!" He says as he motions to the door, causing it to open into complete blackness.

With that said, he looks at the group and motions them in. "It's a one of a time Carnival special! Don't keep me waiting, or the tickets will expire, and nobody wants that!" He says with a mad grin, looking at Maher especially. "After all, I have at least all these men more to give to your hands if you wish to stain them so badly!"

As for the dwarf, James' eyes turned to a bit of a disturbed look at a single glance. "Eugh! No, dreadful, do not compare our works you... Brute!"

Legend of Renalta 2: Reborn

Working on a post for the IC now. For those on Steam or Skype wondering where I went, decided to listen to the sounds of the rain and just seclude myself for a little while to focus on the post since personal shit keeps distracting me. Nothing more need be said than that, right now.

EDIT

A quick note for the Inn group: Due to some conflicting timeline stuff, don't be surprised if things don't quite happen in the order it was posted. I'll try and correct the timeline orders. (Mainly introduced by Zed. )

RPing characters with mental illnesses

Halo said
Now, I refuse to do the same as you've done back to you, quoting sentence by sentence, because the point never gets reached that way - you just spiral off, arguing about every tiny facet of the others' argument, right down to individual word choice. It strips everything of context and defeats the point of discussion.

Except that each line I responded to had something that needed to be responded to. Glad you've hand waved all of that with a single line of not bothering though.

Halo said As I understand it, your view is thus: "I could be wrong but Wayne's account of his experiences seemed unbelievable to me, therefore he must be lying. I thought it best to call him on it because people faking illnesses is detrimental."

My view is plain as day simple: Question that which is unbelievable until I get to the truth. Wayne deliberately stated later on he had no clue what it is he has. Truth found. Problem solved. What about this is confusing?

Halo said My view is thus: "You have no bloody idea if his experiences are real or not, because you aren't an expert and are limited by your own personal experience. I think it's best not to call people on it because the more vitriolic you are towards people you've decided must be 'fakes', the less comfortable people with real issues feel expressing them, out of fear of receiving the same treatment."

And I pointed out how this doesn't actually go anywhere because if you never question anyone, nobody learns anything. Please just read the damn thread to see how I wasn't being intentionally "vitriolic" and even managed to calm it down at the end to a simple message of telling him to figure out whatever it is he's got with a professional.

Halo said I never accused you of being deliberately spiteful or cruel.

Halo said Brovo, don't be a colossal dickweed.

You must have an enviable memory to not remember your own mistakes you made less than a day ago.

Halo said I know that wouldn't be your intention. I also don't think that, honestly, you were seeking to help Wayne when you started this conversation. You were trying to call him out as a fake - which I understand, considering I know precisely how damaging those faking it can be (as I said, I've been there; you aren't the only one who knows anything), but on which my philosophy differs massively from yours.

Wait, are you trying to form an argument that basis itself in magically knowing my intentions when I deliberately stated my intentions and their results already?... That enviable memory, man.

Halo said The core point of my argument was to highlight my view on this "calling out", and to get you to consider that maybe it could be detrimental.

And I refuted it by pointing out in this thread how it turned out to be not detrimental, actually. You're making no effort to counter that, though, instead pretending that I haven't countered your argument whatsoever. Go back to spam, the arguments are a lot shorter there and thus easier to follow.

Halo said The way in which that point was presented was less than adequate, I'll admit, but I was hoping the core argument/the bigger picture would be taken into account rather than narrowing it down to word choice.

I didn't narrow it down to word choice.

Halo said There is a difference between being privately sceptical, and deliberately trying to call someone out, in public, to prove them as a "fake". The former I fully support. The latter, less so, for the reasons outlined above.

Being privately skeptical on this topic goes nowhere. Telling someone that all the mental disorder claims they have aren't possible, then dissecting it with questions and statements showing it, then seeing them realize they didn't actually know what it is they may or may not have--that was progress. Being privately skeptical and letting everyone fall for misinformation (whether intentional or not is beside the point) would have been damaging to something that affects my personal life.

Halo said All I ask is that you consider that opinion - quoting every tiny word I say and trying to pick apart my argument as if defending yourself from a vicious personal attack, or, even worse, somehow "win" the debate.

All I ask is that you try refuting the points I've already made as to why your point is absolutely wrong.

Halo said This isn't Off-Topic, a debate on a purely intellectual level regarding pros and cons of X political system or Y approach to Z. This is much more personal, and is merely a discussion.

No, this is Roleplay Discussion. Discussions are supposed to happen here. And, as I've already said to Wayne before, if he wants to remake this thread but strip it of personal connotations to speak strictly of the role playing elements of mental disorders, I'd be more than happy to comply to that set of guidelines. Heck I'd do it if someone asked me to do so.

Halo said As for the whole "insult" thing, forgive me - it wasn't meant as a personal attack or vitriolic insult, really. It was akin to calling your mate an asshat or whatever.

"Stop being a colossal dickweed", yes, I can see the humour in this, if there was any intended. Realize though that text rarely conveys the intended emotional weight unless you constantly slew it with various other methods. I had to learn this ages ago due to my own lacklustre empathy.

Halo said EDIT: I think, in essence, I felt the need to comment precisely because I know how important this is to you, and that the idea of somehow being detrimental to the struggles of people with mental illness would absolutely kill you. I felt the way you were acting was potentially damaging when you didn't intend it to be, and felt that should be highlighted as something you should consider in future.

And I think you need to learn how to refute points. Also need to work on that memory, I would appreciate that.

Writer of the Month #3 Guidelines

Lets see who posts up stories this time...

Answer violence with violence?

@Shon Harris: As I said. The vast majority come out of it okay. Some don't. Some do get long lasting scars and that's unfortunate. Some do become bullies because of it and that's unfortunate. However, we cannot then even pretend that it's comparable to a parent abusing their child with physical means. It's not. One of these things is hugely more detrimental than the other. We're talking on the level of tuna fish versus blue whale in size difference here, if you get what I'm trying to say.

I'm not saying that verbal abuse is right, or that it's something we should totally ignore. It's something that needs to be addressed, but with an entirely different set of instruments than physical abuse towards a child. Because the latter pretty much guarantees physical and psychological scars that will last the rest of their lives and often does translate into further child abuse later on down the line. It's a vicious cycle that usually requires outside interference to resolve.

On the other hand, verbal abuse is something every child goes through at least once in their lives. Especially now that we all have the Internet at our disposal. Everyone gets hurt and it services an actual purpose: Burst the special snowflake self-image if the parents can't will themselves to do it. Believe it or not, verbal abuse can be used to help a child grow more confident in themselves, not less confident--"The bully has to make you feel bad to feel better about himself, that means you're stronger than him simply by knowing he isn't anything without you!" You use the experience in a constructive manner to help your child deal with the fact that, in the real world, there will be a lot of hateful, spiteful people, and they can let it get to them, eat them away every day, or they can move on and grow up, became responsible people with courageous hearts.

Will it stop them from getting hurt? No, but some amount of pain is good pain. It's life pain, growing pain. It helps transition children into becoming adults: That is, how they deal with their pain helps define who it is they will be when they are adults.

Now, constant verbal abuse that lasts for months? Shit needs to get done, and there are avenues one can take, methods one can use, all of which avoid physical contact. However, Gwazi (intentionally or not) drew the comparison line at physical abuse of a child and bullying. Thus bullying by association gained the physical abuse attribute. The only logical response to someone trying to beat you, possible to severe injury or death, is to fight back physically. Hit them back. If you don't, they will hurt you and possible kill you.

That's all I'm trying to get at here, is the comparison is rather ludicrous on the face of it because the two problems are inherently completely different. The only tangential link they share is causing pain to the victim.

@Gwazi: And I'm not going to bother responding to everything Gwazi spewed because he entirely missed the point of everything I was saying, so that he could respond to something that I didn't say at all. Example: Hitler was used as an example of all of human history, and that if nobody fought him he would have kept doing his thing until the whole world was waving Nazi flags. Or until he went insane, as he did go insane when he was losing the defending war against the Allies and killed himself and his wife.

However, you somehow misconstrued this to mean that Hitler would have totally run away if America got involved, but instead they didn't and fought to the end--once again making it an argument about third party interventionism--something I've already, repeatedly stated, doesn't work.

The point of the example Gwazi is that malevolent predators--hunters--bullies, like Hitler, will continue to do what they do until someone stops them. Until someone hits them so fucking hard they give up. Hitler gave up in the end, he killed himself. A bully will give up in the end, either because you're too hard a mark to bully, or because they're sociopaths and you were forced to defend yourself until they were hospitalized. Pacifism doesn't work against a bully, it never has, it never will. You have to fight when physical confrontation occurs. All of human history has shown this. Time, and time, and time again. To ignore it is to literally ignore the war songs of mankind for the past ten thousand years.

Alcohol (and other recreational drugs): Ever write on it?

I've tried drinking and writing, I noted the following results.

--My writings became more incoherent and violent. (Disorder-related?)
--They also became more sexually oriented if characters of the appropriate genders were around.
--They became more intelligent, surprisingly.
--The more drunk I became, the more nonsensical the plot got, and the worse my spelling and grammar became.
--The world had less censorship than I normally throw into it.

The greatest drunken rambling I ever stumbled on later was an RP where I played as a wise talking owl who's favourite hobby was shitting on some farmers. Then all the animals rose up and killed the farmers while my owl grew sad that he had nobody to shit on anymore. Then some other things happened that I don't remember. Then he was eaten by a flying sperm whale.

I've mentioned this story before, I think, but it's still glorious, nonetheless.

RPing characters with mental illnesses

Tydosius said
I just would like to point out that you have not 'illuminated' me to anything. Aspergers is just more specific than 'on the autism spectrum'.

... No, Asbergers isn't, because it no longer exists as a medical disorder. At all. My suggestion is if you've been diagnosed with it, or if anyone you know has been, to go to a therapist and get updated with a better, more precise definition than Asbergers. Hell, Google it if you like, it's been discontinued since 2013, so it's been understandable recent. *Attempting to offer warm and friendly advice as someone who excels at neither of these traits, please don't take it the wrong way*

Now for the person who is utterly clueless... Cuz' I got nothing against you Tydosius.

Halo said Brovo, don't be a colossal dickweed.

Nice opener, glad to see you like to keep discussions civilized and understand that the way to create an equitable and amicable environment for such a discussion is to take personal potshots displaying your own emotional weakness and hinting that everything else following will likely be a rant about how I know nothing about things that have affected the entirety of my life and every thought I've ever had, eh'? Well, this should be fun anyway, continue.

Halo said Okay, we know, you've had a hard time as a result of your own experiences with mental illness, and people faking it or trivialising it only make things a million times harder. You know that I know that because I wrote a whole freaking article on public misconceptions of mental illness and used you as a source, remember?

Yes I remember, I also remember a few months later when you shared it with me over Skype I think it was, and I noted that it was highly one sided and biased, to the point where I couldn't really... Support it as authentic. You assured me it was for a school newspaper thing and I rolled with it figuring that if school newspapers were anything like real newspapers then bias had to be flooding out of every page or the article would be rejected.

Halo said Trust me, I get it. I've been there myself, actually.But what you have to remember is that [mental disorder claim].

You're right, which is why I own a copy of the DSM. Albeit one that needs to get updated to the newest form that discards Asbergers. I also make sure to coincide my personal research with other people from time to time to make sure I'm not going off tangentially. I do this because I want to understand these things. Am I an expect? Fuck no. Do I understand the basics? Fuck yeah.

For example: In general practice, you only diagnose someone with one disorder under each family of disorders. A family is a grouping of disorders with a similar premise: Depressive disorders, psychosis disorders, so on. Some disorders cross families, some are pure families, some are more specific, others are more broad. The reason why you only diagnose someone with one is because often times the symptoms for them are so similar that someone with bipolar would always also be diagnosed with depression, despite the fact that everything depression is, also falls under bipolar.

So now imagine my reaction when I see two social disorders, three depressive disorders, a physical disorders, and 2+ psychotic disorders all in one.

Not impressed.

However, later on in this thread, I make sure to try and cool things, explain that I wasn't personally attacking him but was skeptical because I have to be, and things cooled off. Then you came in. Tell me, does that white horse chaff underneath your thighs?

Halo said You don't have a freaking clue who Wayne is, what doctors he's seen, what hospitals he's been to, or anything else.

Mentioned that too, but hey, not everyone can be bothered to read the whole thread, I understand.

Halo said Maybe it doesn't seem believable within the realms of your own experiences, but honestly, just as equally someone who's never experienced a disorder could call bullshit on stuff you've said about your experiences.

And they would be fully right to do so. I'm surprised more people don't. More people should. Though I want you to note something, while I admit what family of disorders mine is located in (psychosis), I never reveal the specific disorder. Not in Skype, not in Steam, not here on RPG. Nowhere. I mention I have one but I don't ask for pity and I don't preface every damned sentence with "well in my experience as a psychopath..." Because that sets up a false throne of authority. I did that in Skype for a while until someone pointed it out to me and I realized the error in my methodology.

I'm by no means perfect but I will call bullshit when I see it on this topic. So far as I'm aware, Wayne's already attempting to figure out what exactly he or she has. They fully admitted later on in this thread they don't even know what disorders they actually have. That is a humongous problem, for Wayne, to not know, and so far as I'm aware, Wayne is attempting to figure that out now. So mission successful.

Halo said You aren't in a position to pass judgement on everyone else who has any sort of connection to mental illness just because you have experience with it too.

Uhh... Yes I am. Technically anyone can pass judgement over anyone else over anything they want, free speech kind of ensures that. Law 101 here.

Halo said You are limited and locked within your own personal experiences just like anyone else.

Yes I am, and I've admitted that, but again, the thread's whole two pages might be a bit too much for you, and I apologize.

Halo said Maybe you're right about Wayne's diagnoses not matching up with the way it should be diagnosed, I wouldn't know - but holy shit, you must be lucky as hell in your experience with mental health professionals and doctors if you think they always have actual competency and know the 'rules'.

Not really all that lucky. Most do actually know what they're doing. If you want to pull out statisti--

Halo said I'd bust out some statistics about how many wrong diagnoses are made annually or whatever, but honestly, I don't think I need to - it's a well-known issue that mental health treatment, even in the plushy Western countries most of us live in here on RPG, is still often pretty appalling.

For things like ADHD and Asbergers because they're too fucking broad, which is why Asbergers no longer exists and ADHD is getting curtailed and reworked over time. It's an evolving science, like every other science, and it only gets more effective with each DSM, not less effective! It is Hollywood movie bullshit that scaremongers this stuff! Not to mention, psychological disorders are really bloody hard to nail down. Especially when you have people claiming to be things they aren't in the tens of thousands. Look up Headmates for just one example of how utterly insensitive and disgusting this shit is. It literally drowns out the voices of those rational people who have disorders and are just trying to get by in life.

I pointed this stuff out to Wayne because he was either faking it or didn't have a clue about what was affecting his life. Either way, that's very, very detrimental to himself, and to everyone around him. I was trying to help him you ignoramus, and I was doing so by being skeptical.

Now are you going to continue to comment on mental disorders--the very thing you admit having zero experience on?

Halo said And with the clusterfuck of different diagnoses and conflicting opinions I've seen some people get caught up in, it wouldn't surprise me if some people didn't know what the hell was on the official record anymore.

Except that, you know, there's an official record with your local therapist. All you have to do is walk in and ask. If they don't have it for some reason they have a series of basic tests and interviews they can do to help clarify whatever spew of diagnosis you have.

Halo said But y'know what - let's just assume you're right. So what?

It detrimentally affects everyone involved on a personal and psychological level, and on a professional level. I already stated how absolutely damaging this is: People will look at Wayne (presuming Wayne is faking) and go "wow! You have like five disorders and you're doing perfectly okay! Why can't Brovo and Gwazi who each only have one disorder be normal?!" And that's assuming the best case scenario. I have to hide my shit in real life. If I didn't, I would never be employed anywhere. Nobody would hire me because of the lack of information out there, because of the fear mongering.

Halo said Calling people out on it, whether they are actually lying or not, helps . It accomplishes nothing.

It helped Wayne suddenly fridge horror discover they have no fucking clue what it is they have. Which means now they can go and get an actual, specific diagnosis, and get the appropriate psychological help that they're in need of. It also served to dispel myths and bullshit that others were readily buying into.

So it actually accomplished quite a bit. It helped Wayne. It made me feel better. It helped others in understanding what mental disorders actually are.

Halo said You have no way of disproving what they've said, and it comes down to a bitchfight between the two of you, your word against theirs. It proves nothing. In fact, all it does is make people with genuine issues afraid to discuss them, in case they're actually persecuted by their own kind who don't believe them.

Oh fuck no. I know exactly how those of "my own kind" work. Also, did you seriously just use that term? Do you have any idea how utterly dehumanizing that term can really be for some people? No? Didn't think so. You wanna know how those of my own kind work? They go to work. They get paid. They go home. They struggle with their respective disorder. They move on with life as best as they can.

They don't want to be known as "that psychotic guy" or "that one guy with ADHD". They want to be just known as "thomas" or "jeremy". If they bring up their disorder at any point it's in private with a few friends. If they have a giant "coming out of the closet" type thread, it'll be just that--a coming out of the closet, not a casual mentioning of their disorder, leave alone five of them! O.o

Halo said You see a similar phenomenon in "nerdism", so to speak.

Oh my god please tell me you aren't comparing nerd culture to mental disorders.

Halo said Geek culture is so fucking brutal to people who they consider "posers" or not "real" geeks that it massively deters people from openly and genuinely enjoying "geeky" things and showing an interest.

... Why would you eve compare an optional culture to a non-optional thing that detrimentally affects a person's life.

Halo said Another example: a girl I knew posted something up on Facebook condemning others for self-harming just for attention, which detracted from the seriousness of people who "genuinely" had a problem - completely fucking oblivious to the fact that half the reason harmers are so afraid to be open about it is because of the fear of being labelled "fakers" or "attention seekers", and that her doing that was only making life more difficult for people with those issues.

No, she was doing the right thing. There are way too many people who fake suicide or fake self-harm. To the point that when someone real comes along who will actually do it, the general response from the rest of the Internet or the general public is "meh whatever". Only after they've done it do people go "OH GOD I WISH I COULD HAVE SEEN THIS COMING!"

The same applies to mental disorders. The Isle shooter for example had obvious mental problems but nobody addressed it. Why? Because why bother, he was probably doing it for attention, all those videos about hating girls and all.

Halo said You're doing the exact same thing here. Regardless of whether you're right about Wayne or not, busting everybody who's story doesn't pass your freaking arbitrary mental authentication checklist just means people feel fucking petrified of ever coming out and speaking about their issues in case they don't pass your little test, and end up being rejected and abused by those who should have been likeminded and supportive.

Coming from someone who has utterly no experience with mental disorders who is now claiming to know exactly how everyone with mental disorders wants to be treated. Good job, you keep that up.

In all seriousness though, I don't really actually have high expectations for mental disorders. If Wayne claimed just one and then didn't make up a big story about it but just went "yeah I have X, and I don't like talking about it, but I'd like to know what people think of it in characters in RP's" I'd have been totally chill with that. Or, hell, if Wayne has no disorders and was curious about it, I'd have been more than happy to explain it to the best of my limited capacity.

The story that came up was the equivalent of someone claiming they are an astronaut special forces corporate business executive and nigerian prince willing to offer you five million dollars if you just email him your credit card information. I can say that, confidently, as someone who has had to live in the system for most of his life. Wayne may have simply written it horrible. Either way, it was worth being skeptical about.

Halo said This is a personal issue for you. I know that. But you're an intelligent guy; don't let it cloud your judgement. Think about what you're saying and what it means in the wider context, just as you're angry at those who fake illnesses for attention for the wider repercussions they cause. Anyway, despite my rant, I know you guys resolved your differences and whatever and don't think further argument is conducive to the discussion at hand, which is about RPing. I just felt it was important to note.

Well congrats. You brought it back up anyway to spend your first line throwing off insults and then attempting to explain to me that I know nothing, then corroborating that with completely inane examples which only display your complete lack of awareness on the field of mental disorders beyond halfwit statistics often done by those with political interests and personal biases.

The truth of it is this: Yes I'm not a psychiatrist. Yes, Wayne could totally be right despite admitting later on they had no idea what it is they had. And, yes, I could be making a total ass of myself, but being skeptical is the right choice here, it's what I generally encourage. Ask questions. Try to understand. When something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

I wasn't doing this to be cruel, I was doing this to be informative, to try and help Wayne and honestly from the sounds of it I succeeded. The same goes for everyone else in this thread. Just... Trust me on this one. Please.

Answer violence with violence?

Gwazi Magnum said Most cases of bullying and abuse are not like Hitler in the sense that they will keep beating up everyone until they're in charge. They pick very specific targets that they have an easy time dominating over and then rub their ego with the dominance over said individuals may it be a classmate, their own defenseless child etc. In most cases they pick target's who cannot defend themselves to the point of scaring off the aggressor as detailed, if a third person comes in and defends the victim (and succeeds) it's only a temporary fear factor.

... Duh. That's exactly what I said.

Brovo said Bullies are malevolent predators. They prey on the weak. If you don't fight back, they will continue to prey on you as an easy target. That is the hunter mentality.

Bullies prey on the weak. That's what they do. That's what any person looking for an easy target does. I used Hitler as a comparison but you seem to have failed to notice the part called "all of human history". If Hitler was the only mad dictator in history that needed to be stopped with arms, then I'd call it a blip. However, he wasn't. There have been hundreds, potentially thousands of people who, with even a little power, abused the shit out of it to attack and bully weaker neighbours, weaker people, and so on. Whether it was the Catholics burning witches and pagans at the stake and fear mongering the populace into believing what they told them to, or a completely batshit Stalinist dictatorship that consumed multiple nation states and enslaved them, in the process murdering millions because they were weak and he was strong, the same theme remains prevalent: Those who are strong and malevolent will bully those who are weak and those who don't fight back.

Period. That is the song of human history: Religious, political, economic, ethnic, or otherwise, when one group felt it was stronger, it would bully another into submission. That is how life was for a very, very long time. That is why I used it as an example, because you can see human nature in human history. You want to know the ones that history notes often weren't swallowed? The ones who fought the hardest, smartest, dirtiest, and most cunning of ways. Unless the sides were stupidly uneven any advantage could be circumvented through superior smarts and a simple determination to survive.

Will it dissuade all bullies? No. Some bullies are sociopaths. They fight for the sake of it. However, the vast majority of bullies are cowards. If you stand up to them and spit in their face and fight them, punch them if they punch you and don't hesitate to make them pay for making you suffer you will scare the vast majority of them away in one go and earn a reputation that will persuade other bullies to find different marks.

Gwazi Magnum said It either only lasts as long or during the time the third part is involved, if say the victims new friend is absent the bully uses the opportunity. If it was an abusive parent who was stopped by a stranger in public, said stranger is unlikely to be around again. And assuming said third party was constantly present, it only lasts as long as the fear comes in place. One said bully/abuser get's friends, decides to use a weapon or whatever method you can image that can have them get over the fear inflicted on them.

Never once did I argue for third party interventionism. In fact, I tend to disdain it for being as useless as you point it out to be. For someone to survive they have to fight for themselves. It's been that way for four billion years, no amount of civilization is going to change primal behaviour like that overnight, and it really shouldn't even try when it can't even figure out the identities of men and women, leave alone how they should deal with more violent tendencies.

Gwazi Magnum said Having been bullied growing up in elementary school, fighting back does nothing but give the bully the reaction they wanted.

Having also been bullied because you apparently also missed that part, fighting back worked perfectly fine for me... And for every other person I knew. The fact that you landed the sociopathic kids is unfortunate but it happens. In that case you've really got no out, refer back to the abusive parent bit, where my only response on that is that it's likely a lose-lose situation no matter what way you slice it.

Gwazi Magnum said They know they can get to you and push your buttons, it just makes them laugh and encourages more bullying in the future.

Wut. Wait, uhh... You realize the topic is about physical violence right? If you get hit, that's not them pushing your buttons: That's them trying to beat the stuffings out of you. The only logical response to that is to beat them harder than they beat you, or if you're in a very shitty position, find a way to escape and only fight as long as is necessary to ensure escape.

Common sense Gwazi, c'mon.

Gwazi Magnum said Even if said bully walks away with more bruises than you do they consider it worth it just cause they got you to react.

lolwut no. They're thinking "holy shit ow that hurt." They're either going to come back with friends in which case you do the same (or if you don't have any friends there's always your best friend, swiss army knife as a threatening tool), or they're going to fuck off and pick weaker prey. More often than not, it's the latter. You're just not the worth the effort, you're not that important. To supposition that the bully would come back exclusively to get to you is to create a world view in which you are somehow the centre of this bully's life, when in most cases, the bully has picked you to spit on because he knows he can get away with it and then not give a flying fuck five minutes later. That's the whole point of being a bully: Making someone weaker than you so you can feel better about yourself temporarily when you do other shit.

Gwazi Magnum said And if they're half smart they'll come back with friends the next time to prevent being on the losing side of the fight next time. While the person who never reacts may be bullied verbally (which can have a ton or zero effect depending on the persons self-confidence and amount of thick skin) they're days of being bullied physically are very numbered because theirs simply not rise or enjoyment gained from fighting them.

Gwazi Magnum said Basically the question is, in cases such as bullying and parents who physically abuse their children is the best response to beat up the bullies and parents right back?

The topic is quite literally about physical abuse as said by you, why do you keep bringing up verbal abuse? Why would you even put this on the same plane of existence as parents beating the shit out of their children. One is temporary frustration that everyone goes through in life and the vast majority come out of A-okay. The other leaves psychological and physical scars that live with you for the rest of your fucking life. This is like comparing killing a cow for food to murdering people and cannibalizing their corpses.

Good god this is a false dichotomy if I've ever seen one. The resolution for one is entirely different for the resolution of the other because the levels of horror at which each one exists as a crime are entirely different. If I saw verbal abuse I'd console the one abused and try to teach them how to stand up for themselves in a reasonable manner, and how to have self-confidence, and so on. If I saw parental abusive I'd be half tempted to murder the parent for the sake of the child. The responses are so extremely different it's not even... Remotely comparable.

The Last Bastion: Bunker Chicago

Maxim said
Just so you're aware, Icarus and I are working on a collab post. There's only one paragraph to go, so it should be posted pretty soon. If you can wait for that before posting it would be appreciated. :)

Tuesday then. Good luck. ;)