Gwynbleidd

Suicide, Tragic or Selfish?

TL;DR:

Suicide is a tragic event. This is a highly complex issue, and trivializing it to uneducated and unsupported beliefs of "pushing through" or "just being happy" are not only offensive, but irresponsible.

Suicide, Tragic or Selfish?

Overwatch said Yeah, sure, leave me a scathing reply, telling me how wrong I am. My opinion Ain't changing.

I know your opinion won't change. This won't necessarily be a scathing reply as much as it will be looking at your post, point by point.

Overwatch said
Suicide is the fools way out. It irritated me that anybody could be so weak-willed and dumb that they would expend effort trying to kill themselves, rather than seek another solution.

How? Who defines what is a fools way out or not. You don't seem to be a person has suffered from the mental illness that is depression. Depression is the leading cause for suicides, and these people are not weak-willed. It has nothing to do with individual will. It's an illness of which the victim has no choice in having or not having. A lot of the times, depression just happens. I don't know how you find these people to be "dumb" either. This is an opinion of which there is no evidentiary support for, therefore it has no validity.

There are people who have depression, and think of suicide, and have had searched for other solutions. There have been many cases of successful treatment, and of people who have at least made improvements to their lives. However, this progress is slow because of viewpoints of depression being a choice. Viewpoints like your own. And these opinions, I have to say are not backed by the sciences of psychology. What is supported is that depression is a mental illness that makes people very irrational, this is really inarguable. You can try to argue against it, but it's like saying you choose not to believe that smoking is bad for you.

Overwatch said Such a fool deserves the death they seek. Self-harm isn't the way to go. And you'll get no sympathy from me, or remorse for thinking less of you for doing it. Suicide is bullshit. That's all. It isn't "tragic", it IS selfish, and it certainly makes me want to overkill their goddamned corpse for doing something so god-damned blindly.

I have to wonder why you are so hostile and hateful towards those who commit suicide. They can't talk back to you or defend themselves. If you don't want to show sympathy or empathy then fine. That's your choice. However, your opinion only exacerbates the situation. You are part of the problem, whether you like it or not. Depression victims, and those thinking of suicide need sympathy and empathy to move past their problems into the next steps of recovery. They don't need to be shunned or called selfish. It's selfish of you to shun them based on your ignorant opinions that stand on no evidence whatsoever.

Suicide is tragic. That's what it is. Someone lost the hard fight, and their are people around them will suffer from pain because of it as well. I also find the opinion of people deserving death to be an odd one. There's a lot of hate in having that perspective.

Overwatch said You have one life, and nothing afterwords, asshole. Make the most of it. I don't care if you are crippled from the waist down, or a slave for life, fight on! Make a change! March forward! Sadness never helped anybody, and killing yourself doesn't right whatever made you feel so wronged. If anything, all you did was choose the cowards way out, and hurt anyone who ever cared about you. Your death is not admirable, nor honorable.

No one said suicide is honorable, or admirable. Nor is it cowardly.

You're also making the classic mistake of classifying sadness alongside with depression. Sadness is not depression! Depression is a mental illness, NOT a choice. This is not arguable, THIS IS A FACT.

Overwatch said You deserve no tears shed over your shitty ass carcass once you off yourself. See, I hate myself, loathe myself, I seethe with sadness and rage when I see others as happy as I cannot be. Of course, I cannot fix other's perceptions of me, and voicing my feelings is rude, and selfish, so, I'll dwell on it, slay the beast myself, and move on, no matter how many times I face it.

I think everyone can relate to hating themselves at times, and feeling sadness and rage.

Also, dwelling on it isn't a very useful thing for someone actually suffering from depression. Depression and the negative connotations to it in our society already make it hard enough for people to vocalize that they have a problem. Dwelling on it normally leads to it getting worse, and getting worse leads to suicide.

Overwatch said Praise the fucking sun, assholes, praise music, and light, warmth, and friends. When I think of that, I kick to the curb what had me down, and move on. I've had a pretty shitty hand of cards thrown at me, but it can always be worse or better. I'd rather see it through the better half than suffer death. And when I have my funeral, I'll have a party. Don't be sad we parted, be happy that you knew me well enough to feel sorrow at my absence. Happy that I'd be happy knowing you actually cared. I won't forsake your kindness by choosing the path of the foolish coward.

I had two friends suffer from depression. One almost committed suicide. One of my brothers' best friends who I also knew really well ended up committing suicide. You can say all you want, but it doesn't change that your opinions are highly offensive. I defend with my life your right to say them, but they still offend me, and baffle me because of the lack of evidence behind them.

Suicide, Tragic or Selfish?

mdk said
Pretty unanimously selfish. I know, you're going to get a lot of 'It depends on the situation' replies... fact is, someone who cares about you has to find your dead body and mop your death-poop off the floor, and yes, they'll remember you from now on -- but that's how. As a poop-covered body with a bloated face. They have to live with that from now on, all because you wanted to climb up on the cross.

I can't really consider a depression victim who commits suicide to be selfish. They are not in their "normal" state of mind. Also, I find any case of suicide to be a tragic thing. For both the person who committed suicide, and those affected by the event.

It's also pretty unanimously selfish to only look about how you would feel if someone close to you would commit suicide. Everyone needs to just put on their empathy shoes.

Protagonist said
As a Christian, I believe that people created for a purpose. By killing yourself, you're usually preventing yourself from fulfilling said purpose, and that's just no good.

Brovo noted what I feel towards this. I don't believe religious antagonisms towards suicide are helpful.

Magic Magnum said
This is a big and complex topic, so I'd like to get the most simple/obvious parts out of the way first before I delve into the rest of it.First, let's look at one extreme where I think we'd all be in some agreement, suicide bomber's/terrorists. They are ending their own life basically for the sole purpose of causing harm on others cause their God/Beliefs say so. This is can very easily be called selfish and left at that, but even this is not that simple since they had to be raised to have such hate/beliefs to begin with. So is that truly selfishness or a sad story of a promising individual who was convinced to end their life because of how they were raised?

Pretty much agree here. It's easy to jump to conclusions. There's also a consideration to take into suicide bombings when a lot of them are also done because they believe foreign countries like the United States are enforcing a modern/not so modern form of imperialism into their countries. Regardless, I find any suicide bombing to be tragic on both sides.

I'd ask people to not confuse my points with sweeping generalizations. I am angered by suicide bombings, murder, etc. but I am also saddened by them from both sides of the perspective. If I only looked at things from a point of view of contempt I would be missing all other perspectives. And when we miss other perspectives, that is how the cycle of attack, retaliation, and attack is endlessly continued.

Magic Magnum said
Now for the Suicide topic which this topic seems to actually be referencing, suicide as a result of Depression.I'll go at this from the assumption the person actually has depression, and isn't someone who simply self-diagnosed and is using it as an excuse for everything they do in life.-Side Note: Seriously, if you're self-diagnosing and using it as an excuse for how you treat others just stop. Now. I've been at the receiving end of that before, all you do is hurt those who care for you and make things worse for those who actually struggle with Depression.

Self-diagnosing is a hazy issue, a person could have depression or not. I don't know the full details of your experience, but even if a person self-diagnoses and that diagnosis is not official, you seem to look at it as though it has less validity. The person very well could have had depression. Remember, the things a depressed person says may not make sense to you and they can even hurt. Super complex thing here, treat it with extreme sensitivity! Again, this isn't something I know much about (your experience, that is).

Magic Magnum said
Mental illness as wound -snip-

I don't really have much to add here. This is backed by many studies and psychological health organizations. It's really inarguable.

Magic Magnum said Treat and respect them the same way you would someone who had another kind of illness that was killing them or at the very least making their life much harder to go through.

Exactly.

Lord almighty you always have a ton of things to respond to, lol. I appreciate the shout out.

Broken Glass [Dark Wind & Blitz]

nope. not allowed. my word goes.

Modern Feminism

One of these days I will respond to these, when I'm not drowning in college work. Just posting this here to let you know I am not dead, lol.

Broken Glass [Dark Wind & Blitz]

Err, maaaayybeee… I have work to do. This week is cruel. It's a lot of writing for me :( but it should be okay once Tuesday is over. I say collabs would be better the next weekend.

And how dare you face palm. I'm awesome.

Abortion Discussion

Commander said
If somebody wasn't responsible enough to use protection, practice safe sex, then they need to deal with the consequences, one way or another. If somebody was raped, then they should have a choice. There also needs to be a hell of a lot more education on the repercussions of having sex, especially when you're younger. Again, this is just my opinion and individual mileage will vary.

I don't know why a woman should have to be forced to "deal with the consequences". It's her choice to do what she wants with her body, in my view. There are various reasons for accidental pregnancies. And in all honesty, the reasons a woman wants an abortion are hers. It's not up to me or anyone else to tell her she can't, or force her into a situation where she can't.

Abortion Discussion

TheNewGirl said
I've never really thought about my personal view on Abortion. Hmm...Lots of thoughts come to my mind. Women who find themselves pregnant by accident are idiots and most likely whores. It probably sounds crazy coming from a girl, but It's true. Although, I don't believe that them having to go through childbirth, and from then on, raise another human being is any type of "Punishment" for their sexual ways!I think that Abortion be allowed, but only under certain circumstances. If the mother is a drug user, homeless, self-harming or a rape victim, then by all means, they can have an abortion. If it's the case of a woman who got drunk and didn't bother with protection, then they should be given a month of guidance and talks on how to care for the child, taking away their choice to have an abortion until they hit the limit time for abortions. Having un-protected sex is almost like playing Russian Roulette in a way. Nobody dies, but they're born to a life nobody wants. Couples can still pleasure each other without intercourse, so I don't think there's any excuse to get pregnant besides trying to have a baby, or being ridiculously stupid.

As ShonHarris noted, there are a lot of false claims and judgment within this post. Accidental pregnancies happen for multiple reasons, so, it isn't anyone's place to judge or decide what a woman can or can't do with her body. Given, you're free to judge, but I feel it is the woman who is pregnant that has the choice to do what she feels is right.

Here's one of my favorite quotes from the film Mean Girls:

“You all have got to stop calling each other sluts and whores. It just makes it okay for guys to call you sluts and whores.”

Modern Feminism

Magic Magnum said
And... In the 2 hours I took to respond to Jorick you posted.Well, here goes another hour (Or 23 minutes...)! :P

Lol, replying to these issues which takes time and deep thought. Coincidentally, I'm working on a paper applying gender representation and specific feminist theories to men and women in specific episodes of tv shows like Star Trek, I Love Lucy, and two anime shows (Genshiken and Revolutionary Girl Utena if you were curious).

Magic Magnum said
Agreed. But as we see with the world, "Purity Pledge", "Adultery in one's heart", "Gay Marriage still being a debate" etc. People just love to get involved in other people's sex lives. -.-I will fully admit that women get it worse when it comes to sexual culture and how women are treated opposed to men when they sleep with multiple different people.

Oh, I know. It's frustrating. Had a friend once say such and such is a slut, and I asked why/how, and they go "are you kidding me? do you see what she's wearing?" I restrained myself from hitting said person and calmly disagreed.

Magic Magnum said
Eh...I don't see any issue in terms such as dick, douchebag, cunt, bitch, whore, pussy etc.Literally speaking, yes they are based off specific parts of the human body (some male/female specific). But English has words meaning several different things all the time.Culturally speaking, I find they're more general insults thrown at both genders rather equally, it's a typical case of where I think people need to not be offended by the word itself but rather the meaning and intent behind the word. As for saying like "You're acting like a girl?".Those I'm with you 100% on. That's outright saying that girls are less competent/worse then men.That women are something to avoid and not be like.

This is a tricky thing. For example, as I have stated before. The word gay has transformed into something synonymous with stupidity. People will defend its usage and say they aren't insulting someone because of homosexuality and homosexuality doesn't bother them. But, regardless of intent, the connotation is still there. I find this problematic. It's also there in things like the usage of the n-word. Blacks use it with each other, but if you've hung around black people you would know it's a term of camaraderie, but I still believe that its usage brings confusion to the conversation and carries a lot of negatives along with it.

Words like dick, douchebag, prick won't mean much to men who hear them. Unless it was hostile, and even then it isn't necessarily something that registers. Could be totally common with the way people throw them around. The same goes with pussy, bitch, whore, etc. But my distinction with this is that while we feel these words have evolved to mean different things, and this may be true, there are still negative connections to the word on a psychological level that are an issue. Meaning and intent can be hazy and mixed up and interlinked because there are meanings already attached to the word that have been internalized.

Magic Magnum said Depends on how you look at it.If you mean as in the image/representation women are given on Media? Then yes, women get the short end of the stick.If you mean how they benefit from Media? Such as how much a girl may get paid for photo shoots, being revealing etc? Women models and such have it better... by far.But honestly, that's just a case of female vultures profiting off making a bad image for the rest of their gender.

We're venturing into hazy territory here.

1) "Vultures profiting off making a bad image for the rest of their gender?"
I have some problems with this. Modeling is a career choice, they're not modeling in order to make a bad image for their gender. And it's arguable that modeling makes a bad image for their gender. The main problem I have with fashion and model catalogues is what they push as an idealization of beauty instead of a wide variety of what beauty can be. That is hardly the models' fault.

2) When it comes to pay. It's much like how NBA players get paid much more than WNBA players. Bigger market. I read an interesting study on this about how much training a female model puts into becoming a professional whereas there isn't nearly as much training for the male model. On top of that, beauty is a market that generates a lot of income from male consumers (and females as well).

Magic Magnum said
If you want to identify as all of them feel free to.I get along with several people who choose to do so just fine.It's just I personally choose not to cause I don't like identifying with any cause in this case that's focusing on just one element of the overall problem.

And that's fine by me. We all go about things differently.

Magic Magnum said I guess it largely depends on area.Where I live that's what the majority thinks (or simply of the majority of the kind of people I'm around).It may be different in your areas and the people you all interact with.

This could very well be the case.

Magic Magnum said This honestly might be the best solution to the issue.Having feminist focus on women issues, men's rights focus on male issues and have the two agreeing and on the same side as allies rather than being against one another.But as long as causes like feminism are plagued and ran by Feminazi's who want to push a female dominant agenda, it's not going to be so easy.Those who are fighting for men's rights will speak up against Feminazi's, just like they do against anything else that tries to attack and take away men's rights.In other words, if both sides lost their extremists I can see this working and people simply identifying as both feminists and men's rights.Until that day comes... Conflict is going to happen.

Agreed. To me at least, this would be the most efficient. I sometimes look at feminism, men's rights, etc. to be temporary things, while egalitarianism is eternal.

Broken Glass [Dark Wind & Blitz]

yay! no need for ne angriness. be happy like a high person. (i'm not implying anything about high persons)