Paradox or not, as alpha is omnificent, it can create anything with no limits. Speaking of no limits, omega is an infinite force of destruction. Infinite meaning no limits. And since once omega gets loose it'll destroy everything, based on the fact both alpha and omega are omnipotent in regards to their respective concepts, assuming it'll destroy everything, including nonexistance and itself, isn't too much of a stretch. I say this because well, consider the following. In order to be destroyed, something has to exist. Conversely, this mean it has to have been created in some way in order to exist. Try as you might, you cannot deny the fact that nonexistance does technically exist. It's true. In regards to the outcome thing, sure, I could believe that the alpha can't alter the free will of a living being. But what about altering the surroundings of said living beings?Well, since you said alpha, despite being an infinite force of creation, can create anything EXCEPT for outcomes and nonexistance, I'll just have to ask an age old question. Why is it so? Because according to you, alpha is an infinite force of creation. While the word infinite has many meanings, such as being endless, being immeasurably great, and extending to infinity, another definition of infinite is "not being subject to limitation" therefore, alpha CAN create all that stuff.Creating nonexistence is the antithesis of creation. If Alpha can create nonexistence, then Omega can destroy it, thereby creating things. The process of creation is defined by the fact that it brings things into existence, so to create nonexistence is a paradox in and of itself. Creating outcomes isn't 'creating' things. In order to 'create' an outcome, Alpha would have to change your free will, and force you to make certain choices. However, Alpha can't mind-control people, and has no control over your decisions. An outcome isn't a thing, it's a state of affairs, a possible series of actions leading to a state. Alpha could create a universe which contained any state of affairs that would be created in an outcome, such as Genocide, dead, and you guys, voctorious. However, it could not force that image upon an existing universe.
kishin asura Member
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- kishin asura 12 yrs ago
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Throwing stuff at the wall and hoping it sticks
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[Kishin] After a bit of searching, Asura finally manages to lock onto genocide's wavelength. He seems to be deep underground, and moving steadily deeper, and further away. In fact, it was moving at a surprising pace, beyond what a human would be capable of climbing. Furthermore, with every moment, the Divine presences he noticed earlier were getting closer. It wouldn't be long now before they arrived at the scene, and based on the strength of their Aura, their presence would complicate the situation significantly.Asura quickened his pace. Moving closer to the ground and tracking genocide's movements. He knew that he would have to take down genocide before whatever the hell arrived. And he knew it wouldn't be easy. But then again, stuff like this wasn't exactly a walk in the park.
Well, since you said alpha, despite being an infinite force of creation, can create anything EXCEPT for outcomes and nonexistance, I'll just have to ask an age old question. Why is it so? Because according to you, alpha is an infinite force of creation. While the word infinite has many meanings, such as being endless, being immeasurably great, and extending to infinity, another definition of infinite is "not being subject to limitation" therefore, alpha CAN create all that stuff.I know. Which is why I said you ATTEMPTED it. But enough about that. Any power, no matter what it does, will always have some sort of destructive potential. Alpha's omnipotent creation powers are no different. As that creation power is what makes alpha omnipotent, that most likely means there is no limit to what alpha can create. Going by that logic, it can create anything. Including nonexistance. Alpha's concept is creation, leaving it little to no offensive power. It can still create stuff with no real limits. Meaning as it can create the existance of something, it can also create the nonexistance of the same exact thing. This is essentially how dimensions can be so diverse, as there are dimensions that house the existance of a given object/being while the other dimensions house the nonexistance. Otherwise, you'd have a progressively infinite number of copies of the exact same dimension. Which, as there would be nothing distinguishing what exists in one dimension as opposed to another (since in each dimension, everything would exist and nothing would not exist), would be more like a singularity. This doesn't conflict with alpha's concept because in order to render something nonexistent, it has to create the nonexistance. Going back to to the whole "creation without limits" thing, it can be assumed that alpha can also create outcomes for given actions. (Gonna stray off topic and say I looked up omnipotence, and found a similar ability called omnificence, which is essentially the correct term for alpha's omnipotent creation ability. Though I'm guessing you already knew that) as there's nothing that says it can't. So yes, my statement about alpha creating failsafes, based on this logic, is correct. As the alpha can create the outcome of genocide failing. That being said, I'm sure I messed up at some point while typing this up, so I could be wrong.No, Alpha cannot create nonexistance. Nonexistence is the standard state of all things. Anything that is not created is not nonexisted, it's nonexistence doesn't need to be created. Furthermore, to create nonexistence is a contradiction, as you would be creating the lack of creation. By the very act of creation, you remove nonexistence. Nonexistence is nothing more than the lack of existence, and as such the lack of creation, like the shadow cast by the light of reality. Furthermore, Alpha cannot create outcomes to certain situations. Alpha is an infinite force of creation, but it cannot manipulate the free will of those who already exist. Nor is it capable of seeing the future, and as such it does not know what will happen in the future. It is not limited by time, and can move through time freely, but only as a semisentient force of creation. If it were to move into the future, then it would exist at that point in time, without any 'knowledge' of the past, simply continuing in it's task of creation. If you want a Primal capable of manipulating time, it would be Kronus. However, even Kronus cannot choose what will happen in the future, because to do so would be to control the free will of all living things. Kronus is simply capable of observing, limiting and moving time, causing it to move more quickly or more slowly, and he maintains the fabric of time.
I know. Which is why I said you ATTEMPTED it. But enough about that. Any power, no matter what it does, will always have some sort of destructive potential. Alpha's omnipotent creation powers are no different. As that creation power is what makes alpha omnipotent, that most likely means there is no limit to what alpha can create. Going by that logic, it can create anything. Including nonexistance. Alpha's concept is creation, leaving it little to no offensive power. It can still create stuff with no real limits. Meaning as it can create the existance of something, it can also create the nonexistance of the same exact thing. This is essentially how dimensions can be so diverse, as there are dimensions that house the existance of a given object/being while the other dimensions house the nonexistance. Otherwise, you'd have a progressively infinite number of copies of the exact same dimension. Which, as there would be nothing distinguishing what exists in one dimension as opposed to another (since in each dimension, everything would exist and nothing would not exist), would be more like a singularity. This doesn't conflict with alpha's concept because in order to render something nonexistent, it has to create the nonexistance. Going back to to the whole "creation without limits" thing, it can be assumed that alpha can also create outcomes for given actions. (Gonna stray off topic and say I looked up omnipotence, and found a similar ability called omnificence, which is essentially the correct term for alpha's omnipotent creation ability. Though I'm guessing you already knew that) as there's nothing that says it can't. So yes, my statement about alpha creating failsafes, based on this logic, is correct. As the alpha can create the outcome of genocide failing. That being said, I'm sure I messed up at some point while typing this up, so I could be wrong.> > Alright. So..... another question. > > > > Alpha's concept is creation correct? And I assume the lack of free will you mentioned was true not me misremembering anything? And I assume alpha is also omniscient as well? Meaning it knows everything there is to know about..... well, anything really. Am I correct? > > Alpha has no free will, but it's not omniscient. It knows ALMOST everything, because everything that exists was created by Alpha, including their minds and personalities, but it doesn't know everything by a long shot. True. I will admit you do have a point about alpha not having omniscience. But as it has creation-based omnipotence, can't it just CREATE it's proud ownership of said omniscience? Answer: no. Because as we both know, it would need to choose to use its power in that way. And as choice comes from free will, something alpha doesn't have. But you did say it knows ALMOST everything. Meaning it knows the pros and cons of certain actions. In the previous hell's coffee lounge on the previous roleplayer guild site, there was the battle with hate, chars died, shit went down, but then tyki showed up, pulled some bullshit that got hate instakilled. Which pissed you off enough to attempt instakilling everyone's chars via alpha. Now it may seem like I'm getting off topic. But really, I'm just providing a little background info. Otherwise what I'm about to bring up wouldn't make that much sense. That attempt pretty much provides an example of how alpha can use its power to create for destructive purposes WITHOUT going against its concept. You're a smart guy Matt. I assume you know how that can be. I'll give you a hint. It's the same reason all the dimensions are different in varying ways rather than all of them being exactly the same. And I may have taken too long with this post.Actually, I retracted that statement, and it never happened. It was an act of rage, and not a part of the canon.
Teo, toguro has a friggin death beam. You REALLY think a mirror's going to help?
> Name: Asura
>
> Age: at least 800
>
> Powers: madness wavelength, flight, skin scarf manipulation, shield/barrier creation
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> (With vajra): energy blasts
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> Looks: 
>
> From: soul eater
>
> Now for my "me" character because he/I am/is .........not really that badass....
>
> Name: Kishin
>
> Age: Sixteen
>
> Powers: None. Fights with two katanas. One red, one blue. Both seem to possess great power
>
> Looks: Often wears a cloak. Though at the cloning facility, he wears a simple lab coat
>
> Bio: With a cloning facility complete with beyond natural technology, kishin has only one goal in mind. Keep the multiverse safe without causing any unnecessary death
>
> From: OC-ish
The cs for my "me" char looks good, though I was think of tweaking asura's cs. If that's fine with you
> Toguro made a sound akin to a growl, as a rain of large glowing anvils rained down from the sky. Of course, it wasn't the growl of an animal, or any normal being. It was the slow rumble of an avalanche, filled with mild annoyance. It was akin to what would happen if one managed to piss off a mountain range. Which summed up Toguro fairly accurately.
>
> Placing all of his strength into his legs, he dashed out of the way of Teo's field of fire, blurring momentarily with speed before he skidded to a stop. Toguro was nothing if not an opportunist, and this wasn't the first time he'd been partially molten. While seemingly damaged, his arm still operated according to his will, and now extended as thick tentacles of rapidly cooling rock. They seemed to cover the fallen Barney Cannon, thick layers of black rock overlaying the controls and barrel. Birhgt flashing lights can be seen shining through openings in the rock, leaving Toguro with an oversized Canon-Arm, his will manipulating the human-sized control panel.
>
> 'I like your little toy here. Let's see how much firepower it has, shall we?' With a grin, Toguro raises the weapon not at Teo, but aiming at the now quite distant Asura. Toguro's first priority was to protect Genocide, and the Failed God was posing a threat. And even the slightest threat had to be eliminated. 'The red guy can be our Guinea Pig!' With an explosive blast, the purple beam fires once more, striking Asura in the back at the speed of light - far too fast to dodge.
>
> 'Damn, such a big canon, and no recoil. I really like this toy.' Toguro grins as Asura's smoking form drops from the sky, resembling nothign more than a tiny little meteorite.
Asura's smoking form falls from the sky. However even if it was too far to see, toguro still got the feeling he was smiling. It was then that asura disappeared. While toguro did not know how or why, those who were familiar with asura's abilities knew the answer.
"HOLY SHIT!" Asura yelled out as the beam narrowly missed him. He looked at the tips of the two skin scarves to his left. "That was waaaayyyy to close for comfort....." having gotten out of toguro's range of sight, asura sped up. Making his movements more erratic and less predictable. As he did this, he focused on finding genocide's wavelength while blocking out everyone else's to the best of his abilities. All while hiding behind his madness wavelength
((I know what you're going to say, but let's face it. It's been a while since he used it. (Before the previous site crashed AND before hcl even existed to be exact) so cut me some slack.))
> > Alright. So..... another question.
> >
> > Alpha's concept is creation correct? And I assume the lack of free will you mentioned was true not me misremembering anything? And I assume alpha is also omniscient as well? Meaning it knows everything there is to know about..... well, anything really. Am I correct?
>
> Alpha has no free will, but it's not omniscient. It knows ALMOST everything, because everything that exists was created by Alpha, including their minds and personalities, but it doesn't know everything by a long shot.
True. I will admit you do have a point about alpha not having omniscience. But as it has creation-based omnipotence, can't it just CREATE it's proud ownership of said omniscience?
Answer: no. Because as we both know, it would need to choose to use its power in that way. And as choice comes from free will, something alpha doesn't have. But you did say it knows ALMOST everything. Meaning it knows the pros and cons of certain actions.
In the previous hell's coffee lounge on the previous roleplayer guild site, there was the battle with hate, chars died, shit went down, but then tyki showed up, pulled some bullshit that got hate instakilled. Which pissed you off enough to attempt instakilling everyone's chars via alpha. Now it may seem like I'm getting off topic. But really, I'm just providing a little background info. Otherwise what I'm about to bring up wouldn't make that much sense.
That attempt pretty much provides an example of how alpha can use its power to create for destructive purposes WITHOUT going against its concept. You're a smart guy Matt. I assume you know how that can be. I'll give you a hint. It's the same reason all the dimensions are different in varying ways rather than all of them being exactly the same.
And I may have taken too long with this post.
> > And yes, from what I can remember, you yourself said that alpha was omnipotent. Either I'm remembering wrong, or you changed it for the sake of the rp. I'm guessing/hoping it's me not remembering correctly
>
> Actually, omnipotent and immortal are two different things. Omnipotence means you're capable of doing anything, immortal means you cannot be killed, or are 'not mortal'.
>
> Alpha is the amalgamation of all positive energy in the multiverse, she is the materialized form of the concept of creation at it's purest, capable of wielding an infinite amount of energy. Whether she is omnipotent or not, however, is dependent on your definition of the word. She's capable of wielding infinite power, and as such can apply effects of infinite strength. However, she can only apply her powers to create things, as she is the Primal of Creation.
>
> Omega, as the Primal of Destruction, is also 'omnipotent'. He is the amalgamation of all destructive energy in the multiverse, which is also an infinite quantity of energy. Like Alpha, he can only apply this power in accordance with his Concept, which is Destruction. Because he has infinite destructive power, he is actually capable of destroying Alpha. However, in order to do that, he would need to use all the negative energy in the multiverse to cancel out all the positive, effectively eliminating them both instantly.
>
> > Mmmmm guess
>
> The name tells me nothing, but then again I'm terrible at names. It could have a meaning I've completely forgotten.
>
> However, I can tell some small things from the mannerisms. Based on the people who would return to HCL and expect to be recognized, the choices are Luna, Spirit or Anriu. Based on mannerisms I'm ruling out Anriu, which leaves me with Spirit.
>
> Based on the fact that Luna hasn't been around in ages, and I doubt she'd reappear, I'm going to go with.... Spirit?
Alright. So..... another question.
Alpha's concept is creation correct? And I assume the lack of free will you mentioned was true not me misremembering anything? And I assume alpha is also omniscient as well? Meaning it knows everything there is to know about..... well, anything really. Am I correct?
Name: the seer
Age: unknown
Powers: soul stealers- constructs to which the seer is connected to via the soular stream. These constructs are essentially needles with wings. While one is pretty easy to deal with, in large numbers, they are hell to deal with. Their core function is to suck out and store soular energy.
Power enhancement via spiritual imbalance- the seer, being a servant of the soular stream, has the power to derive greater power from spiritual imbalance. The greater the imbalance, the greater the increase in power. While normally subject to whatever dimension the seer is in, he will gain power if the spiritual imbalance affects the multiverse itself.
magic- even without a boost in power, the seer is a skilled magic user. Capable of casting powerful spells. His attack magic, despite this, is pretty weak. Though his true skill lies in defensive magic
Looks: the seer is essentially a short golem without a face. It wears a ragged black cloak and often carries a wooden staff.
Bio: as the number of living beings in the multiverse grew, so did the number of souls in the soular stream. In order to prevent the overlapping and following destruction of both the realm of the living and the realm of the dead, the seer had been created for that exact purpose
((Modified version of a cs I posted in the cs bin a long time ago))
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