Dark Wind said -Gay/Fag posts snip-

So basically is what you're saying to care more about the intent/usage of said words rather then the words itself?

If so I agree. But I think we're just approaching the problem differently (in the same sense we're both against sexism. You approach it as a feminist, I approach it as a humanist). Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be approaching it from a perspective of being conscious of how said words are used sometimes in harmful ways, and treating such words with caution as a result. While I more just go "Words are sounds, to worry about the sound we make with our mouth's is pointless. Let just tackle the ill meaning behind the word directly", where essentially I'd let words like Fag, Retard, Nigger etc. stick around no problem, but would have issues if they got used in insulting ways rather than in descriptive ways (or friendly in the case of nigger).

Dark Wind said Not necessarily nigger. There is a difference between using the word nigger and nigga. That's a culture thing. The word nigga is clearly used in a form of camaraderie, and anyone would know that if they've hung out with a group of black people.

The reason it's taken as racist is because, well, in black circles in inner cities there just are not a lot of white people. And when a white person says it, there is a different connotation. It's built in because a history of racism. And some white people have said it and not been called racist, probably not a majority, but there are cases.

Regardless, there's a lot of work we need to do in the racial relations department of the world.

I'll admit to being in an area majority white. There are some black people around, but not to the extent where you see groups full of just black people walking around. So I'm probably pretty alienated to the cultural use of the word's Nigger and Nigga.

I get why there's the double standard though of black people can use it fine, but white people are labeled racist. But to me that makes as much sense as when men asked to be treated equally in an area they're currently not, and then Femi-Nazi's turning around and calling him sexist because of how men treated women about 50 years ago. People's heads are just stuck in the past, and we need to get them out of the past and into the present.

Dark Wind said Not always. It's okay to be offended. It's like going somewhere and saying something racist to a black man, he says he's offended, and you say that he shouldn't be offended and he's just being sensitive. Granted, I know that's not what you're trying to say. But, that's how it comes off.

And, this is really where I'm coming from on a language confusion and language psychology stand point. People will take things personally because there are too many meanings attached to words, and when that happens, there will be people who have had so many negative experiences with specific words those words will be internalized within that person and they will lash out defensively. Rightfully so, I might add. It's not that they're being oversensitive.

Again, I understand and mostly agree with the wide range of meanings and the differences in usage. We should be tolerant of different viewpoints, but that doesn't mean different viewpoints are immune from scathing criticism.

I think this is where the thick skin/thin skin element comes into it mainly. If some guy is running around saying mindless racist comment's like that, it's better that people have the thick skin to ignore it rather than be offended by it. The racist comments are idiotic and should be ignored as such. However, I understand that it's not always that simple. But simply being offended by things isn't the best way to go, cause it means you're either being intolerant of another view point, or you're simply letting the negative spoutings of someone else get to you and get in the way of your day.

Dark Wind said No models are doing it to harm women. At least, I doubt it. I really disagree that a model should be aware of what job does what. But, this is really just a minor disagreement here. The focus should be the odd standards of beauty.

I'm not saying a model is purposely trying to sabotage women.
I'm saying they are probably aware it is harming women, but choose to keep doing it regardless cause of the benefit.

In other words, they are not trying to make it worse for women. But they are willing to make it worse for women in order to get the roles, publicity and the pay.

Dark Wind said Eh. Guys all over the place have posters of half-naked women in their rooms. Not that girls don't have posters of guys or pictures of guys. There could be a demand for more male models, sure.

But, women consume women products at great rates. They buy those fashion and beauty magazines. It kind of caters to both sexes in an interesting way.

Oh I know men do that, but it's normally just the more horny guys that do so.
A lot of the guys I hang out with aren't like that, it's simply not something they pay much focus or attention to.

I was about to say it was different for girls there, but then I re-thought it. I can list a number of them who don't, and the rest who do are in fact one's who I would say put pretty high values/priorities on sex or at least getting into a relationship for the sake of being in one.

In the end though, there are still about as many girls who will stare at boys as there are boys who stare at girls.
So there's good money to be made if you cater to those girls. You're right though in that the girl fashion business works on both sex's, but I think that still doesn't change the fact the other market also has some potential. Besides, I think the women one only get's double because culture/media is constantly trying to pressure girls to be like the latest models, we start to get rid of that and the amount of girls buying into such things should start to shrink.

I just ran across this and felt I should share. The term pussy isn't even based off a females part. It's a shortened version of the word "Pusillanimous" which means to be lacking courage, or to be timid.

I'd link it to the definition on the dictionary but I'm my phone atm where doing so would take forever cause I'd have to do it manually.

Magic Magnum said
I just ran across this and felt I should share. The term pussy isn't even based off a females part. It's a shortened version of the word "Pusillanimous" which means to be lacking courage, or to be timid.

I'd link it to the definition on the dictionary but I'm my phone atm where doing so would take forever cause I'd have to do it manually.

That's actually not true, just something someone thought was right and put out on the internet as a fact without doing their research. Pusillanimous comes directly from Latin, a mix of pusillis (very weak or little) and animus (spirit or courage). Pussy seems to be derived either from Germanic languages in which "puss" and similar words refer to cats (with the insulting meaning starting as a comparison to negative traits of cats), or from the Old Norse word "puss" that meant pocket or pouch and was later taken to refer to female genitalia (with the insulting meaning starting as literally calling someone a vagina). It's unclear which of these roots it came from, might've been both coming together from different sources, but there seems to be no linkage between pusillanimous and pussy.

Etymology is funny like that, you can get similar sounding words with similar meanings from entirely separate sources.

Jorick said
That's actually not true, just something someone thought was right and put out on the internet as a fact without doing their research. Pusillanimous comes directly from Latin, a mix of pusillis (very weak or little) and animus (spirit or courage). Pussy seems to be derived either from Germanic languages in which "puss" and similar words refer to cats (with the insulting meaning starting as a comparison to negative traits of cats), or from the Old Norse word "puss" that meant pocket or pouch and was later taken to refer to female genitalia (with the insulting meaning starting as literally calling someone a vagina). It's unclear which of these roots it came from, might've been both coming together from different sources, but there seems to be no linkage between pusillanimous and pussy.Etymology is funny like that, you can get similar sounding words with similar meanings from entirely separate sources.

God Dammit Language! :P

To update my views: I will never take modern feminism seriously when shit like this is given significantly more time, effort, funding, and even celebrity support and commercialization, than, say... This immense travesty of human rights.

That's not to say that there can't be good arguments from modern feminism, don't get me wrong. There can be. There are some feminists that still reflect the ideology of equality for all under the face of the law, scrutiny of the government, and ability to work and live independently. I like those feminists. I count some of them as friends even if we don't always agree on how that equality should be found, created, or even enforced...

... But seriously. I could never call myself a feminist while shit like the above example happens so staggeringly often as to warrant understanding why some would outright dismiss feminism as a lost cause at this point. (Because, really, if all it took to persuade a girl to cease and desist all leadership roles was a single word, then they're not fit to be leaders. As this isn't the case, bossy is probably not the issue. It probably has a lot more to do with, say, biology, sociology, and psychology, and all the complexities that come with that territory... Than a word.)

I would say they're grasping at straws to still make it look like an issue with the campaigns like "Ban Bossy".

But the conversation me and Jorcik had highlights there are still many issues that women face. So instead I'll say this, modern feminism has become led by people who either:

a) Do not want equality, but female superiority
b) Are simply willing to do or say anything to either be given attention, or be seen/treated an Intelligent person
c) Really are this sensitive to things (I know it's possible, my parents raised me that way. I had to get thick skin on my own by being realistic and logical)

If it's the first, they're sexist and should be ignored and seen the same way we look at those who oppose Gay rights, or are racist. If it's the second, they deserve to be ignored until they can come up with actual intelligent/logical arguments while we divert our time and attention to those who actually do have good points and an idea on what they're talking about. If it's the latter, that proves they are not mature/grown enough yet to handle the real world. They should be seen as the same way a child get's when they get upset when insulted or isn't getting away, they're just not grown up enough to deal with the real world yet. Depending on the case of the person trying to do stuff like "Ban Bossy", they should be helped/taught how the real world works. Or they should be ignored if they are simply just being stubborn, and it isn't actually a case of simply not grown up enough to understand yet.

Magic Magnum said I would say they're grasping at straws to still make it look like an issue with the campaigns like "Ban Bossy".But the conversation me and Jorcik had highlights there are still many issues that women face.

I didn't say that there aren't still issues. In fact, I'm pretty sure I displayed disgust with the face of modern feminism for not attacking real issues by linking that article about Iraq, a country that the USA is still occupying and directly supporting.

What I said was that I just can't take modern feminism seriously as a whole. I can't. I really, really can't. There are feminists I count as friends that attempt to tackle real issues that I support all the way. I also mentioned that too.

I'm more than happy to attack real issues, promote equality, and get men and women on the same level, or at least as close to it as is humanly possible in the modern era... I will not, however, give a shred of respect to a movement that openly tolerates the en masse stupidity of people waving its flag for non-issues that restrict freedom of speech for... Absolutely incoherent nonsensical reasons.

I mean most of atheism takes great pains to separate itself from that Atheism+ nonsense for a reason. :p

I wasn't saying that you didn't think there were real issues.

I was saying that 'I' would say that those feminists are simply grasping at straws cause they have nothing else.
But I can't, because it was highlighted recently that there are still serious isses for women going on, just not issues that modern feminists cares for.

These feminists hurt women, they don't help them. They ignore the real problems and simply attack non-existent ones, making women look like people who can't be happy with anything and has no head for logic. Now obliviously that's not the case, women are just as intelligent, mature and capable as men are. But the feminists are making a terrible image for them.