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[OOC] A New Age - Ancient Era NRP Page 5

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Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by ASTA
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ASTA

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That's what I'm wondering, Haz.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by So Boerd
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All in good time, Cosmic. They are settled though. Not nomadic.

Vanadium in Indian iron facilitated its hardness to accompany the superplasticity it acquired from the manner of working as I undrtstand.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Alfhedil
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So Boerd said
All in good time, Cosmic. They are settled though. Not nomadic.Vanadium in Indian iron facilitated its hardness to accompany the superplasticity it acquired from the manner of working as I undrtstand.


No, it didn't. Vanadium is not found naturally bound to Iron, and not much is actually known of the original Wootz process.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by HazmatMedic
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As I understand, Vanadium IS commonly found bound to other minerals, however. Can I ask you both to source your knowledge?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by TheSovereignGrave
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Bleh, okay I'm still going to be in this but I'm going to redo my nation from scratch. Every time I think about it, my mind ends up wandering to other ideas of possible nations I could create and that's never a good sign. If all else fails, I can just make a nation like my last one; desert people who have cities based around a complex well-system. But that also means the area I claimed is free game.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Alfhedil
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HazmatMedic said
As I understand, Vanadium IS commonly found bound to other minerals, however. Can I ask you both to source your knowledge?


My source is the wikipedia article, where it makes zero reference to vanadium found bound to iron in nature. Vanadium bound to iron is actually a high-strength alloy used to make high-durability steels where some of the higher-quality steel-alloys are not available/too expensive.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by HazmatMedic
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@Sovereign - Don't worry about it. Take your time - I'd rather you had a high-quality nation you want to play over some hastily cobbled junk.

@ Shimm/Alf - 1. Would you prefer I called you Shimm or Alf?
2. I know people say wikipedia is unreliable, but I doubt someone would screw about with something as subtle as Vanadium, so I guess that counts as a reliable source. However, just because somethings makes no reference to something doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't happen. It might still happen elsewhere.

Not trying to nitpick, just trying to keep things fair.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by TheSovereignGrave
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I can find references to vanadium being found occurring in magnetite (an iron ore), but nothing about that actually affecting the iron made of the ore. Even when I'm actively looking for that information.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Alfhedil
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HazmatMedic said
I know people say wikipedia is unreliable, but I doubt someone would screw about with something as subtle as Vanadium, so I guess that counts as a reliable source. However, just because somethings makes no reference to something doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't happen. It might still happen elsewhere.


>Says Wikipedia is unreliable
>Uses Wikipedia link for acceptable weapons

Honestly, the whole debate over the reliability of Wikipedia is well and truly done, as it's one of the few large databases of information on the internet freely accessible to everyone. While textbooks are the most reliable source, it would be difficult for some of us to gain access to the same textbooks, and for most of us it would take too long to acquire these books to respond in a timely manner.

Vanadium is also not quite as subtle as you think, what with it being used in high-speed steels that are quite superior to standard steel produced without alloying.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by HazmatMedic
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I use Wikipedia all the time! I don't think it is unreliable, I'm saying that some people think Wikipedia is unreliable. God, Alf, think before you post ;-)

Also, by subtle I meant it isn't commonly known, certainly not as common as iron, steel or bronze.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Alfhedil
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HazmatMedic said
I use Wikipedia all the time! I don't think it is unreliable, I'm saying that some people think Wikipedia is unreliable. God, Alf, think before you post ;-)Also, by subtle I meant it isn't commonly known, certainly not as common as iron, steel or bronze.


=P

It may be subtle, but it is a very well known metal in the metallurgical circles as well as the modern industry. It is kind of on the same field as Cobalt, in that both are highly utilized by alloyers who create the high-speed steel needed for things like cutting tools and high-strain working conditions. I did a lot of my research on metals and construction of tools for another RP when I ran dwarves, so I still have about 40 some odd links on metallurgical processes and different metals.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by HazmatMedic
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I don't suppose it makes a huge difference. I was basically trying to say it would be unlikely to be vandalised on Wikipedia.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by So Boerd
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From the wikipedia article on Vanadium,

"Much of the world's vanadium production is sourced from vanadium-bearing magnetite"

Magnetite is, of course, Iron (VI) oxide
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by TheSovereignGrave
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That just means that iron ore is the main source of Vanadium. That doesn't say iron made out of magnetite with vanadium in it is particularly special.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by So Boerd
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Now that the presence of vanadium is established, the effectiveness is found. Vanadium encourages microbeads of iron carbide which improves hardness.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Alfhedil
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So Boerd said
Now that the presence of vanadium is established, the effectiveness is found. Vanadium encourages microbeads of iron carbide which improves hardness.


Negative, just because the magnetite has vanadium in it, does not mean that the vanadium makes the iron more effective. There is also the point where you have not answered all of Cosmic's previous questions, questions which could make this whole song and dance much easier, rather than us having to go through this.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by REDSHEILD
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On the vanadium issue, what I've read of it so far points to vanadium being produced by making pig iron from magnetite, and then harvesting the vanadium from the slag in the form of an oxide, specifically vanadium pentoxide, which contains 20-24% vanadium. Then you can process that into ferrovanadium to increase the total amount of vanadium by mass in the finished resource. However this process requires using aluminum in the reaction, and while aluminum has been used in the ancient world, it was used as a chemical and not recognized as a metal, nor was the chemistry required to use it as a proper reactant known. So I don't think vanadium would be known to any of our nations except as rubbish leftover from smelting certain ores.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by So Boerd
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Again, I said nothing of the sort. The mere presence of vanadium does nothing, it is yhe fact that its presence creates Iron carbide microbeads

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/9809/verhoeven-9809.html
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by REDSHEILD
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You know what, I was going to get involved in this, but to hell with it. Not going to argue with someone over something trivial. For my nation, it's going to be good old fashioned iron and steel all the way, none of that alloying crap those fancy alchemists and futurists keep spouting about.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Alfhedil
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I am similarly done, it's obvious he's trying to spark another conflict.

Haz, when can we expect to see a list of accepted nations and the IC?
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