[OOC] God's Shattering [Concluded]

[The 42nd Gecko]

@Flamelord I know your plan is more effective, I just think mine is funnier.

But, go ahead with yours, it's what Alex would do.

[KoL]

@The 42nd Gecko

I said exactly what @TheWindel said here, on my previous post:

@The 42nd Gecko

As@TheWindel said, I dislike the is of her turning to light because (take RL science away for a moment), she's turning her whole body into magical energy, which is a very long step away from her usual powers. If she had a light based tome that would be completely fine, even as a last ditch trick but Meihou's powers are too broad and too powerful ad they are. As a note, I greatly dislike the nerve gas trick for the same reasons I stated above. Meihou's powers go completely against the logic of tomes already, by being that broad, vague and undefined, but they always had a theme unifying things so out was ok until now. Don't stretch it more than what is plausible.

As for the underground, no, the barrier is only above the surface. Just know that, you'll fall straight on the other scene. Whatever you do, the point is getting everyone together.

Finally, Meihou doesn't knows how Farris' tome works, you should stop having her react to stuff using meta knowledge. We will react to whatever you do, in an appropriate way.

@KoL

You could find a solution t these powers much easier, if you didn't automatically took 100% of what I write in the worst light possible. I didn't mean to offend you and the post above doesn't have a single offensive statement on it. It's just that we have to draw a line of what 'anything' means, otherwise you'll end up turning her staff in a nuclear bomb sometime and blasting us all. You, on the other hand, seems determined to make me angry and try to milk some fun off of it, as this seems to make evident:

@Flamelord Ok, would you like to post before or after Monkey?

If I get to post first, I would like to transform my staff into an invisible crystal barrier right inside Farris', so that when she moves forward to put cuffs on us, she bounces off it like Monkey did off of hers.

@The 42nd Gecko

Because you won't transform her staff in the power of someone else's tome, that's a step beyond the line as well. Please, be reasonable here.

I'm wracking myself to be sure that I'm not offending someone without noticing, because I know I'm easily angered and prone to this kind of stuff, yet:

1 - I can't safeguard myself against your interpretation of non-offensive statements. We may be both biased, but that post above wasn't meant to to be an attack.

2 - Do you think that by trying to anger me (given that I'm calm at the moment), anything will come right? I seriously don't see the logic here.

3 - Either we find a way to work together or nothing will go anywhere. I'm trying to not hold prejudices, you could as well try to do the same, not?

[KoL]

@Flamelord

We aren't really trying to cut your heist idea without telling you. Of you go back to when Zealot entered the building, you'll see that Farris was with him and remained in the outside.

Sincerely, I want even going to go the extra step of describing the barrier's shape into details, but I'm pretty sure that you as well know @The 42nd Gecko's penchant for exact words exploitation and metagaming (even now he's trying to justify Meihou getting a sure fire plan, despite not knowing all about what's happening). Even the negatives up to note where directed at his pushing of limits plans, not you.

That said, I'll admit that your idea of holding is back, a lot, since there are no ideas going for what everyone else would do, while we waited for you to do it. If you can do as @TheWindel said and follow the lead for time being, we may come up with other ideas later, otherwise we have just a big spiral of nothingness that we don't know what to do about.

I'm telling you already that we are trying to come up with ideas on how to extend the story a further. You'll not be left without anything to do of that is your worry.

[Flamelord]

To be fair actually describing the barrier was probably a good idea, if only because certain individuals now trapped in said barrier probably would have tried to go over it or something with their 'manipulate air' tome.

As far as things go now, all the previous discussions we had had about the heist mission was with regards to using it as a mechanism to both influence the plot, and to use it to allow Alex to meet the group while re-establishing his credentials as a thief who does thief stuff (Since the last time he did that was at the beginning of the RP and he got caught). Given that I know from previous statements made that you guys want to move on to the climax of the RP and the ending, this relatively sudden move to link up Alex and Meihou with everyone else without warning seemed to contradict that and make it look like you guys just wanted to have them get together so you could go straight into the ending/final confrontation of the RP, where Alex's main value to the group would be 'has a Relic' as opposed to anything specific about his character.

I mean, I am curious to know how getting arrested would have let him link up with the group, but fortunately we have a relic so that isn't a problem.

[TheWendil]

Wait, since when has Monkey been part of the heist plan? Her escaping should have no impact on Alex.

[Lonewolf685]

And to be fair, we have given Flame several months to get his heist mission into motion with only his interactions with Stark to show for it.

[Flamelord]

And to be fair, we have given Flame several months to get his heist mission into motion with only his interactions with Stark to show for it.

@Lonewolf685

I can't control how often Windel posts responses to me >_>

Wait, since when has Monkey been part of the heist plan? Her escaping should have no impact on Alex.

@TheWindel

Well, the heist plan doesn't specifically require Monkey, but she is with Alex at the moment, and it was my understanding that part of the reason Gecko had had her meet Alex was so she could be a part of it. Gecko can correct me on that though if I'm wrong.

[The 42nd Gecko]

Well, the heist plan doesn't specifically require Monkey, but she is with Alex at the moment, and it was my understanding that part of the reason Gecko had had her meet Alex was so she could be a part of it. Gecko can correct me on that though if I'm wrong.

@Flamelord

I would like to join up, as it's the most interesting plotline to me.

And to be fair, we have given Flame several months to get his heist mission into motion with only his interactions with Stark to show for it.

@Lonewolf685

As Flame mentioned, yeah. Here are their respective posting speeds, because Windel posted all their character's stuff at once. This made Alex wait on pretty much everyone else in the roleplay. Alex has literally gotten 5 posts to try and escape from Zealot, who is not a pushover, much less perform his heist.

Flame | Windel
1 day, 8 days
2 days, 15 days
3 days, 25 days
2 days, 20 days
2 days, 12 days

where Alex's main value to the group would be 'has a Relic' as opposed to anything specific about his character.

@Flamelord

And this was my main reason for not wanting that white relic... It felt like a death sentence for getting to play Monkey as Monkey, as her new job would be to roleplay as someone else and shoot lasers.

2 - Do you think that by trying to anger me (given that I'm calm at the moment), anything will come right? I seriously don't see the logic here.

@KoL

@Flamelord I know your plan is more effective, I just think mine is funnier.

@The 42nd Gecko

I'm not trying to make @KoL angry, or auto-resolve the escape. I'm trying to make fun of Farris. Much like kicking the old man in the dick when Yggdrasil was standing right there, if Monkey can't beat you, she'll at least try to make fun of you.

As far as not getting to use my transformation powers to turn things into things other people can do, I said I was making an invisible barrier, not an exact copy of her ability. My crystal barrier doesn't have magic reinforcing it so that people with superstrength bounce off it. It's just on the level of maybe bulletproof glass, because Monkey creates physical things, not magic. (Aka, if she turned into light, she turns into literal light, not magic light. Her trick is to be "unwilling" to her own transformation so that it is temporary and she reverts back after a split second. But we've already vetoed that one.)

If we restrict Monkey's powers to "things no other tome does", while that's alright if we only count PC tomes, if we include the NPCs, I don't have any idea what I'm not allowed to do. Because you guys have tons of tomes of which the powers are not explicitly written out.

Am I no longer allowed to transform things into "things on fire" because Zealot has that ability? Can I no longer transform into super-coat because that involves strings and that's Emilia's thing? I thought mimicing other people's powers but weaker would be a way to avoid overpowered abilities I'm not supposed to have.

[KoL]

@The 42nd Gecko

Didn't I asked you if you could cooperate/drop the "exact words/real life science" attitude?

Going back the IC just to count posts speed and keeping the argument about Meihou's tome aren't helping us find a solution.

[The 42nd Gecko]

@KoL Uh, so Lone assigns blame to Flame for something I just objectively proved was nobody's fault, I should just accept that?

Also, what is the problem with Monkey holding us up? Her current plan is to stand there while Alex fixes the problem.

[TheWendil]

@KoL, @The 42nd Gecko, @Flamelord, @Lonewolf685

I'm busy today so I can't exactly manage you all at the moment. Instead of causing more confusion and headaches, how about you all bring this to the PMs? Because with Gecko's last message I can already see misunderstanding building up.

[Lonewolf685]

@Flamelord@TheWindel​ @The 42nd Gecko

After finding my efforts to remain distant proved fruitless, it's time to step in with an assessment of the present situation before us. Take this with the calm, neutral air that I dictate it with;

@Flamelord, I do apologize for unjustly leveling all fault upon for not posting. This was not a matter of your inactivity, and for that I was wrong to accuse you of. However, neither you nor Windel are free of fault in this matter. While Windel choice to post for all of his characters in one large post may have hamstrung you, there is no reason beyond a lack of initiative that you could not have approached him and simply asked for Windel to post for Stark. By his account you have not discussed this in any PM and I have no recollection of any raised hands in the OOC. To be frank, if at any point you had suggested a collab with Windel, Alex could have wrapped up his affairs with Stark and been free to move on to his heist in the course of an afternoon, two months ago.

@TheWindel, while I do believe that Flame should have raised his concerns with you, we both know for a fact that your long history with Flamelord should have been basis enough to understand he would require prodding to suss out any concerns left unspoken. You have 1x1 RPs that operate with lightning speed so by all accounts you could do the same in Shattering with Alex's story line now that it is running parallel to every other grouping of RPers. None of us have any right to question the decision to post your characters all at once; It's convenient and orderly while maintaining a good post order, but as people are shifting into their own time frames for posting it would be best for Shattering if you would consider posting for characters as soon as conveniently available rather then when ​all​ characters are available to reply.

As in most cases, a lack of communication bedevils us, and only dialogue can amend the issues at hand.

@The 42nd Gecko. To be frank and forthwith, having a character capable of turning into literal light is infinitely more threatening then anything magical. That would carry the implication that Meihou could ​move​ at the speed of light, which would make her rather impossible to capture, combat, or evade in any reasonable scenario. For the sake of all the GMs sanity, please refrain from having Meihou assume a form that is pure energy. Become a rock, a harpy, a fire breathing dragon, but once you assume a form that for all intents and purposes should scatter you across the atmosphere in a fraction of an instant, things get sketchy, scientific or otherwise.

I'd rather not continue that line of discussion, as it leads to madness on both sides and I lack the scientific aptitude of @KoL to keep up for long. The general consensus is that we don't want to have to force a defined set of guidelines on a broad power like Meihou's, but when the borders of reason are pushed, they will snap back unless softened with sufficient reason, cause, and rational discourse. It just so happens that you appear to have a predilection for leaps of logic not readily acceptable for other parties.

Regardless, Gecko, since it is apparent that you wish to join Alex's heist plotline and Flamelord is welcoming your company, it behooves me to suggest that the both of you consult with Windel and KoL on doing a collaborative post to find an outcome satisfactory to all. Assuming this is achieved, then I would recommend that you post at your own speed for the characters involved, which would require the other GMs to agree for a pardon from the post limits if you were so inclined to post multiple times a day to make up for lost time and get the heist into full gear.

Is this satisfactory to all parties?

[The 42nd Gecko]

@Lonewolf685 Seeing I already agreed to not using light previously and am confused why this is still an issue, sure. I agree.

[Lonewolf685]

It's not, but i'd been silent and wanted to lay out my views. Thank you for your consideration, Gecko.

[Flamelord]

To be clear, I never brought it up to Windel because I have not had a problem with the time that it has taken to work through the Zealot scene. Sure, it wasn't blistering fast, but it seemed to be moving at a consistent pace in tandem with the rest of the RP at the time. I figured we would get through that, and then once the initial conflict was over there would be a time skip or two to set things up, and then we're in to arranging the heist. It's not like lengthy delays are particularly unusual in Windel's games, especially for people who are in scenes by themselves.

So if I seemed hostile in my response to your comment, I apologize. I was just genuinely confused as to why I was being given the burden of responsibility for the state of affairs.

However, while I was content with how things were proceeding, I never got an indication from the GM's that they were growing frustrated with how long it was taking to move along. I did not get a PM, and all the comments in the OOC were directed at individuals who had yet to post rather than me. At the very least if they did exist they weren't particularly direct, since I can't remember them.

At this point my main concern is that the plan which we had agreed on as to how we would ultimately proceed was changed in a fairly significant manner without my consent, input, or even just a bit of forewarning before doing so. If I had been approached with a message saying something like 'hey, we think this isn't working out, can we compromise?', I would have been happy to do so. Instead though, they went ahead with pushing their own agenda for how they believed things should progress. Which is all the more awkward considering how we ended the last serious argument with a conclusion that we should all try to communicate better.

I am more than willing to collab out an end to this scene or relaxing the posting limit or what have you to get this done, I merely wanted to voice my particular dissatisfaction with how events occurred.

[Lonewolf685]

I can understand your frustration and it isn't undue. Things were done without informing you as everyone is reacting to everything the best they can. So we do not understand where you are drawing this assumption that there would be a time skip for Alex. The prevailing assumption among the GMs was that Alex's heist would come immediately following his encounter with Stark, as providing a time skip for one player when everyone else is ready to go wouldn't be fair to the others. What frustration, if any, is from us thinking that Alex was prepared for this to happen. This was something we thought was tacitly understood between us, but as you have clarified, it would not be so.

I had hoped it came across in my post that I was not naming one party as the sole cause of all our woes, but alas that was a failing on my part. And yes, the hypocrisy of a lack of communication is disgustingly apparent, but there is nothing more to be done then doing better in the future.

So I'm still of the opinion that you, gecko, Windel, and KoL need to get together to hash out some plans, but I hope we've cleared some things up now.

[Flamelord]

The understanding that there would have been a time skip for Alex to work things out came from two sources. The first was that due to the length of time that he had been away on his side trip with Tori (IC time, not OOC time, It was hardly a weekend jaunt), he would need to take stock of the city and actually locate something to go heist like the supply shipment that had been the initial target as we discussed.

The other source was the mere fact that even if he had had a target in mind on returning to the Capital, he hadn't had the time to plan anything because Zealot showed up almost immediately upon him getting back, So he'd need a bit to come up with an initial plan for how the heist would work, even if it fell apart later. After that, potentially collect some supplies, though that probably could have been cut out without any real problems.

Otherwise I guess there could have just been one big cut to the heist with all that offscreen, but it wouldn't exactly help the time issues involved.

[The 42nd Gecko]

@Lonewolf685 Well, one of my questions I still have is why Monkey is in any way shape or form necessary for the plot to continue, necessitating the trapping of her in order to keep the plot moving. Presuming she had escaped, via some clever trick rather than raw power, what exactly would that have messed up?

[Lonewolf685]

@Lonewolf685 Well, one of my questions I still have is why Monkey is in any way shape or form necessary for the plot to continue, necessitating the trapping of her in order to keep the plot moving. Presuming she had escaped, via some clever trick rather than raw power, what exactly would that have messed up?

@The 42nd Gecko

Because if she escaped without Alex, she would be isolated from everything going on and require us to find some new way to make her relevant for the plot. You yourself said you wanted to get in on Alex's heist because it was the most interesting. If you ran now, then you'd miss out on it.

And yes, before you ask, it is still somewhat feasible she meets with Si's group after escaping-though I'm not too clear the path for them myself-, but that is an extra series of events that would need to be conceived rather then remain in the plot line where she is.

The understanding that there would have been a time skip for Alex to work things out came from two sources. The first was that due to the length of time that he had been away on his side trip with Tori (IC time, not OOC time, It was hardly a weekend jaunt), he would need to take stock of the city and actually locate something to go heist like the supply shipment that had been the initial target as we discussed.

The other source was the mere fact that even if he had had a target in mind on returning to the Capital, he hadn't had the time to plan anything because Zealot showed up almost immediately upon him getting back, So he'd need a bit to come up with an initial plan for how the heist would work, even if it fell apart later. After that, potentially collect some supplies, though that probably could have been cut out without any real problems.

Otherwise I guess there could have just been one big cut to the heist with all that offscreen, but it wouldn't exactly help the time issues involved.

@Flamelord

He could have had the heist planned out before he left on the Arcadia trip and just went to carry it out in a rush. Have supplies stashed elsewhere to carry out his plan.

[TheWendil]

@Flamelord

Do you need to have written out every part of his plan IC? You can't say he had this in mind all along? Maybe he took the Blue Relic in the first place for the sole purpose of having a tool for this heist.