Inkwell

Star Wars: Alt History

What about this as an alternative to a lightsaber.

starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightfoil

Star Wars Alt history

Will be keeping an eye one this. Also have a few questions to ask:

1. Since Obi-Wan is on Tatooine to protect Luke why does he decide to leave him there?
2. Does Leia get get the Lightsaber that Obi-Wan gave to Luke in the original or we just going to see what happens?
3. Does Leia get told about her real parents from Obi-Wan?

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<Snipped quote by Inkwell>

>Nationalize cottage industry

Excuse me, but how do you expect the state to seize someone's homes and for this to work?

Honestly, reviewing the app it reads more like you're tacking on what I'm saying and not really critically applying any or much of it. It's at the stage that if you really want to be someone in southern Russia does it really need to be a liberal democracy? Frankly, the military order would be more capable of asserting itself. A Kuban Hetmanate would be more viable in the area given the relatively powerful political position of the Cossacks in the area.

@Dinh AaronMk

Sorry didn’t mean for it to be read as literally siezeing there homes. It was more me saying that I wanted them to be now government employees and work in government workshops.

Also this was a rough draft just to see if it was heading the correct direction. Also the reason most things seem a bit tacked on is that I have been trying to save what little is left from my original. This is rewrite number 10 so at this point I think will just make it worse so I am scraping it and starting again. With probably a new government.

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Hope this is closer to what you are looking for.
@Dinh AaronMk

Caucasia Commonwealth

Name:
Caucasia Commonwealth

Map location:
Sochi and Krasnodar

History:
After Russian troops withdrew from the eastern front most people hoped that this would be an end to the violence. That maybe peace could once again return to their lives. However this was not the case as the violence was now Russian against Russian with the army brutally putting down any opposition. Bolsheviks in the Caucasus region gained some support but it wasn't enough to stop them from being wiped out by the superior and more equipped soldiers of the empire.

The government began a very well planned propaganda campaign portraying the Czar as the saviour of Russia. Blame was levelled at the socialists for loosing the war and many blamed them for over things as well. However there were still those who did not buy into the propaganda. Many women in Caucasus region had seen the Czar sacrifice their sons and husbands leaving thousands of mothers and daughters to take care of themselves. Many women had ploughed the fields, worked the factories and all number of jobs while men died on the battlefield. Many of them said that the fate of the nation shouldn't be in the hands of one man. They believed that Russia should be a republic. These women also believed that they should be equal to men as they had done very thing that was considered a mans job when they left for war.

However the movement faced a problem as talk like this could get someone locked up or worse. The leaders made the decision to keep the movement underground with a low profile until they had more members and could force the government to listen. The organisation spread mostly by word of mouth with friends bringing each other in. After this step they started handing out fliers with the organisations main beliefs and a message encouraging others to start their own movement/cell. It wasn't long before smaller groups formed all over the Caucasus region. Some even set up pirate radio stations to spread their version of the truth to the masses. Unfortunately they would also face step backs with some of them being caught and arrested with most never to be seen again.

As the Czar took more power and civil liberties away from the people the movement grew stronger. With antimonarchists and republicans joining the movement. However the movement also became more radical with some saying that the Czar had gone to far and needed to be removed by force if necessary. Thankfully the rest of the organisation had slightly cooler heads saying they should wait and build up. They would slowly start gathering weapons here and there from people who didn't ask them too many questions. This lead to dealings with organised crime and gun smugglers. Some soldiers even joined seeing that the Czar had gone to far and they would bring in other soldiers with similar views.

When Nicholas II's time came many hoped that with his death would bring a less heavy handed ruler to the throne in the form of Alexandre IV. Unfortunately even with the the passing of the previous Czar in 1946 everything stayed pretty much the same with some saying it got worse. People were arrested for no reason with some completely going missing never making it to trial. The movement lost some of their own in all off this but thankfully they never divulged anything.

When the ethnic minorities of the Caucasus rebelled the movement had to go extremely silent to avoid detection. It was a brutal put down as the rebels as they were slaughtered. Allegedly alongside some innocents though the government would never it admit it was their fault always blaming the rebels. The movement tried to protect as many of the minorities as they could as most didn't even do anything. However that didn't the Czars soldiers thinking that they were all up to something. Some rebels were also saved by the movement as they began losing many searched for somewhere to hide. That's how the movement found out the minorities had been encouraged and funded to rebel by the communists. The movement switched them to their side arguing that they should not trade a Czar for a Communist dictator. A lot of them joined on and those that didn't were dealt with as they couldn't afford a breech in security.

This people's liberal movement in the Caucasus region finally realised that freedom from the Czar would require careful planing and force to seize power. It would take the right circumstances and the right timing for the movement to work. The conditions proved to be right shortly after the Czar was killed and the royalists were in panic. With the top brass of Caucasus region army meeting to organise it was easy for the rebels to use this to their advantage. Using soldiers who were members of the movement they were able to sneak a reasonably sized task force in taking the generals by storm. One or two fought back but they only got off a few shots before being killed. At the same time several other officers were poisoned by there secretaries or in some rare cases their wives. With their leadership either killed or held prisoner the soldiers gave into the demands of the revolutionaries and surrendered. With soldiers loyal to revolution disarming the rest of the army and arming more of the rebellion things were looking up for a change.

It took several months but they finally managed to piece together a provisional government. The provisional government was made up of the highest ranking military members and the leaders of all the resistance cells. They were also getting ready to release the last group of army captives. Upon release they always gave the soldiers a rifle for every man 1 out of 20 and enough food to make it to a loyalist stronghold before they starved. However that didn't help them much as many would still be killed or captured in a few days by revolutionaries with some even joining the revolutionaries. Many others no one knows what happened to them. In the last group they also sent them away with the generals who they had been holding hostage. Without an army the generals wouldn't be able to just turn around and attack and they would have to leave to survive.

It took about 6 months for the provisional government to get even the basics in place. The way they did this was by nationalising any form of cottage industry that made tools, weapons, ammunition or clothing. With this they were able to trade with the local farming communities so they could feed the people. They also managed to get the sewers and rubbish collection working again with them now actually able to pay them. The government also nationalised the mines using most metal for every day uses. However the precious metal or metal that had no practical use was traded away to other countries (mainly Romania and Bulgaria). This trade was technically illegal as they were not a recognised country and it was mainly run by criminals. Often vessels would dock up and purchase the metal at an extremely low price then smuggle it back home. With this they had a small treasury of foreign currency. They would use this currency to buy anything that couldn't be made internally. Unfortunately they were hampered by the fact they couldn't mine or make anything fast enough only having hand tools and horse drawn wagons. At the same time other factions were now attacking them and with their forces so spread out they didn't stand a chance. So it was decided to concentrate their forces in the western part of the Caucasus region.

When they had finished retreating back to Sochi and Krasnodar the question was put forward of how they actually protected and hold the land. It was fairly easy to garrison the two main cities of Sochi and Krasnodar. They also stationed large garrisons at the oil fields and mines as they were the life blood of the country. Unfortunately it was very hard to find anyone capable of making the oil fields leading shortages. Also there was still the problem of protecting the small towns and villages on the vast plains of farmland. In the end the area was doted these areas with remote earthwork forts were they would station a large platoon and there horses. The idea being that the closest platoon could engage any enemy incursion quickly while other platoons converged to provide backup. They also helped keep law and order in the territory. They caught a lot of criminals and stopped several incursions. Unfortunately with the territory so expansive they couldn't stop everything and often things would slip though the net.

It was in 1956 that the provisional government announced its upcoming disbanding and the first election of the new council to replace it. They also announced the name for this new country which was the Caucasia Commonwealth. The new council began its term in office on January second 1957 and begin its 5 year term. They were already facing problems with criminal and rebel elements now sneaking though the mountains. Forcing the government to build remote outposts in key passes and routes through the mountains. Another problem is that rebel groups have now started raiding the oil fields in the west both stealing and destroying equipment. To counter act the both the criminals and rebel the government started putting prices on any rebel or criminal killed. However the bounties were only paid out a decent some for high ranking individuals. Lower ranking soldiers or criminals were barely worth killing. The government paid these bounty hunters in the foreign currency they had made from the illegal trade of metals. However this severely limited their ability to buy things that they couldn’t make. But there was no way around it as they needed the bounty hunters for the good of the nation no matter the cost.

The year is now 1960 and the government has become increasingly concerned for the safety of the nation. With the forces of the country incapable of stopping the enemy or crime the government realises that they need help. They realised that waiting and hoping for the region to stabilise was not going to happen. So now the government is looking to establish ties with other countries to help. Although this makes them look weak they see no other choice if there way of life and nation is to survive. The idea is to see if they can get them to invest in infrastructure, tools and education for the nation. In return they are prepared to offer almost anything. Diplomats have been dispatched to neighbouring countries in the hope that they will other a helping hand.

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<Snipped quote by Inkwell>

It wouldn't be that difficult. Literally two major Cossack Hosts would be your neighbor.



The Kuban in the north and Terek in the east. Both over lap and envelop the area around you centered on the rivers they derive their names from. And without Soviet-styled forced deportation or elimination of them as a group, they are considerable adversaries. The whole of Kuban Oblast would more than likely be a Russo-Ukrainian Hetmanate due in part to the Kuban's long history of Imperial patronage.

@Dinh AaronMk

Did not realise that. Thanks.

Bend the knee to the Imperial government and we'll send you a bunch of papertowels we got from Germany.

@Pepperm1nts

I’ll bend the knee when pigs fly.

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<Snipped quote by Inkwell>

The thing with fortification lines is that projects like the Maginot Line took eleven years to build for a relatively wealthy, industrial, non-civil war wrought country like France. If we excused the depth of the line itself, the French built it at 4-5 miles a day over the span of those eleven years for the 943 miles. Geography may be different where you're situated, but the reality of Russia is different with borders less than static.

And possessing oil fields and refineries doesn't really imply automatic security in wealth. Simply having it doesn't mean you get the wealth-creation of someone like the Arabs or any large oil-carrying nation. Not only would oil and gas be cheap, but local instability means either no one would want to gamble their investment and put money into the area to develop or maintain those fields until the situation stabilizes, but because other groups may and will need fuel oil and gas that they would also be raiding those locations to either knock them out and deprive you, or seize them and enrich themselves. Places where there is conflict does not mean that there'd be a consistent workforce in the area; either working skeleton hours or abandoning the area all together.

@Dinh AaronMk

Point well taken I’m changing my app so in stead the land is doted with small earth forts which have a small amount of men and horses.

Also I understand that the oil and gas would make my nation rich. I also understand that other rebels may sabotage the fields or try to steal from them. However they are so far west that this would be a challenge for them if they come from inland. But I do think that raids would happen a lot from the coast. Also I completely agree that getting enough people to man them would be a struggle.

Thanks for the feedback and I’m working out the changes in my app.

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<Snipped quote by Inkwell>

And how are you going to get the stones to the mines? Trucks? How are you getting the fuel to run the trucks. From within your borders? Oil's on the other side of Southern Russia and local fuel sources would be heavily fought over as much as mineral mines. From outside? How are you paying? This is a part of Russia that's by and far largely all farms, and who would trade with an economy as gutted as Russia and with a party in the larger conflict without a currency, or whose currency would be so poorly backed and non-established it's basically worthless.

And let's say you can, how are these being managed? You'll need parts to replace on these vehicles, they'll inevitably break down or come on accidents and attrition will slowly break down the logistics between mines and the front. So you'll need replacements, and replacements come from factories. how are the factories being operated? There may not be any electricity, or there'll be a shortage of energy to run them consistently. Cottage industry may not be able to catch up with such industrial demand.

And then you get the stone to the front: you'll need concrete. And assuming Caucasian stone is limestone and not something like granite you won't be able to make concrete to adhere it all together so it holds up to mortars if the enemy has that. And how are you going to grind the stone to a usable powder to make concrete? Heavy grinders are needed for that.

And then we come back to transport: so assume you don't have heavy transport and you're using horse and mule-drawn wagon. That takes time, the same as grinding stone from mines to a usable powder for concrete, assuming it's limestone or a calcium-based rock. And by the time you get one Hoxha Brand (tm) bunker down the enemy has already moved around utilizing the great expanse of the southern Russian steppe to high-mobility advantage.

The best field fortifications would be what man can dig with a shovel on a spot and if or when available timber supports to hold up the earthwork banks.

And onto civilian services: if no fuel whose driving cars? There'd be no ambulances, no power from the power plants. Electricity wouldn't work and phone service would be dead or spotty if there was electrical power. Infrastructure like this is a large national affair and implies a strong economy. The region would be set back to 1860.

Supplying basic needs like food and fire-wood as fuel or even managing livestock would certainly be a service that persists, but it'd likely be rendered in the old peasant world of mutual aid and village-to-village assistance living outside of the political paradigm and just floating with whoever says they're in power. They would throw their lot into a militia organized by your government but that would honestly be the limit, and only so much as they can afford since they're walking out into the fields now to reap their wheat and barley with sickles and baskets to harvest it as they may have been doing for centuries.

Southern Russia would be very much a land of overlap realistically with only firm grasp of prominent cities where the urban population would be severely dependent on the government to keep them from starving or managing what little resources they have to address the handicaps to have some minimal level of life; what can be done to keep them from starving, dying of preventable disease, and some minor police and fire protection. And beyond there they'd be in open competition with everyone else and competing over the villages with the other factions.

As my Russian friend said in his experience with the Southern Russia, think more in terms of Cossack LARPing than trying to be a Russian Republic in miniature. Western Russia might be able to pull it off better because they have the infrastructure, but they also need regions like the Caucus and Siberia to run it, and they're either poorly developed because all that development is in Moscow and Saint Petersburg or these regions are vastly underpopulated.




Another comparison would be: like depth-of-Civil-War-Somalia, but add more slav.

@Dinh AaronMk

I understand your points but do have a few to make. For one near Krasnodar their is both oil extraction and refining (I looked on some old resource maps). So that will provide me with some fuel. Also you can make dry stone walls without concrete but I have to admit earthworks would be better maybe. Also transport I was thinking of limiting it to very high ranking officers or government officials so there would only be a handful on the roads (less than 50). All other cars would have been scraped for parts. Also there is a limited rail network in the south so I could use diseal trains but would probably only have one or two.

I have to say north of the city of Krasnodar I would probably have it as technically under there control but it is pretty much lawless like the old west. Only a few horse patrols go every now and again. They offer rewards for bounty hunters.

My government would probably collect a food tax from farmers which would have them collect a small portion of the farmers crops. Thus keeping the cities feed.

For the most part I see my country going back to 1860. However you would see government using what little fuel/resources to have a small amount of technology. But I imagine that by 1960 my country is at the limit of what it can produce and it small pieces of advanced equipment are now beginning to fail. Thus them looking out to the wider world for support.

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<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

@Inkwell, note though that perhaps you can get Armenian help from @TheEvanCat if you still want to play Southern Russia?

@Letter Bee

That is a possibility but it seems that Armenia would have its own problems and might not be in a position to help. Nor might it be willing with the bad blood from all the Russian imagrants/refugees.

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@Inkwell
You're looking better on your new app, but there's new glaring issues. Particularly in regards to the treatment of the local economy.

Typically speaking for Russia a lot of the industry is focused in the more populated north. Southern Russia, particularly in the mountains is focused primarily on resource extraction in a hand full of minerals (copper, lead, etc) which would have been sent out of the area to where the factories are, western Russia. Even given the Soviet Union in our history they didn't industrially develop the region and Sochi in general isn't and hasn't ever been a strong industrial city and has developed more as a tourism center and for agriculture (Sochi is the only place in Russia that grows tea as I'm aware).

Your app treats the region as being very stable and at a well developed, stable state. But you forget that the area has been at war with itself for seven years and poorer parts of Russia like the south would be poorer still. They'd be incapable of launching large-scale earth work projects like the fort line you said they built to keep a hold on the territory. And they certainly wouldn't have or would have very limited industrial capacity to do it.

Further, conflict in a region or a country often leads to a brain-drain effect. See the middle east in the 20th century or even Syria today when many middle-class professionals opted to escape the country and region at the head of warfare. Being a part of an unstable region does not lead itself to investment opportunities, and CEOs would have abandoned Russia for the more stable west when war broke out. They would have been followed by the scientists as threat of someone's lab being raided by paramilitaries looking for supplies or shit to sell to fund themselves, or just general banditry and looting and heavily weakened services from a lack of finance and a broken economy would leave them unprotected.

You seem to be handling your app more as if it were a well established real country as opposed to an unsettled local-state as would be expected in the post-Apocalypse. Self defense wouldn't come with expensive and industrial fortifications but from shifting alliances. Or in the setting of PoW: foreign aid and interference.

If you want to be a strong industrial nation in PoW, and in PoW's Russia you got to work for that.

@Dinh AaronMk

Totally understand your points. Will change it so that most industry in the country is cottage industry. Maybe one or two repurposed workshops or factories in 1960. Also will make it so the defensive line is just bunkers made from leftover stone from the mines. I may also say there is an unspoken none aggression pact with Georgia as attacking each other would just be to hard in the mountains. As such the countries sometimes share information with each other and in rare cases work together. Maybe one or two of the rebel factions that have the mentality the enemy of my enemy is my friend and are working with my country. Also maybe a few rebel groups are hiding out in the mountains of my country as well as criminals.

Overall I think my country should be able to provide for its own people just about. But I imagine my country is lacking in modern equipment, intellectuals, industrial power and severe lack of potential external trade.

Anything that you don't think I have addressed let me know.

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I have updated my nation sheet.