Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Revans Exile
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Magic Magnum said Agreed, Canada already proves that.
If the Canadian health care system was so great then why do Canadians choose to come to America for their health care needs?

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/top-canadian-politician-chooses-us-health-care

http://archive.freep.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS06/908200420/Canadians-visit-U-S-get-health-care

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2009/08/21/canadians-crossing-the-border-for-u-s-health-care/

If the Canadian health care system was so great then why do Canadians use outdated surgery techniques, rationing & delaying health care?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/02/canadas-warning-against-government-health-care/

If the Canadian health care system was so great then why is sophisticated diagnostic equipment scarce and growing scarcer? As in Washington state (Population: 4.6 million) has more MRIs than the country of Canada (Population: 26 million).

http://fee.org/the_freeman/detail/national-health-insurance-a-medical-disaster

If the Canadian health care system was so great then why are patients denied care, forced to cope with increasingly antiquated hospitals and equipment, and can die while waiting for treatment (as in never getting any treatment in the first place)?

http://fee.org/the_freeman/detail/national-health-insurance-a-medical-disaster

If the Canadian health care system was so great then why are standards far below those of the United States?

http://fee.org/the_freeman/detail/national-health-insurance-a-medical-disaster

If the Canadian health care system was so great then why are a growing chorus of Canadians, including many former champions of socialized medicine, are calling for return to a market-based system?

http://fee.org/the_freeman/detail/national-health-insurance-a-medical-disaster

The Canadian health care system looks like a joke to me, a joke that is murdering Canadian citizens.

Magic Magnum said Once a civilization reaches certain thresholds there are certain luxuries (food, water, shelter etc.) that become rights.
Luxuries can never be rights.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by henrypotema
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Healthcare is a luxury? Are you sure?!!!
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Revans Exile
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henrypotema said
Healthcare is a luxury? Are you sure?!!!


Humanity existed long before the health care industry existed. So yes I am sure health care is a luxury.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Gwazi Magnum
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Revans Exile said If the Canadian health care system was so great then why do Canadians choose to come to America for their health care needs?


Because America by not having government health care makes their doctors privatized.
Privatized doctors meaning they essentially go to the highest bidder, they get paid more. So doctor's move to America as a result.
Now in theory this might sound good (For America, this system right off the bat has the flaw of damaging every other countries well being).

But what this also means is the Doctors only go to those who shell out a ton of cash, which means a lot of other people are left without medical care. A lot of people on the streets, working less effectively, unable to work or dying because they can't get medical treatment. And morality set side, that still means your country is allowing a ton of members of society to simply perish and/or become a burden on loved ones rather than become productive members of society.

Revans Exile said If the Canadian health care system was so great then why do Canadians use outdated surgery techniques, rationing & delaying health care?


First off, you're referencing an american news article made 4 years ago.
One that would have been made right during the time Obama started putting in health care and americans were up in arms, when american media would do anything to try to vilify it for views.
Secondly, the article outright proves it's bias when it refers to America as "Land of the free" when compared to Canada, suggesting that Canada somehow isn't free... Which shows either

1) Blind Patriotism
2) Completely lack of knowledge of other countries

The fact that source is terrible aside though, it's not "Outdated" as you're suggesting it to be.
What's happening here is the direct result of America. Like detailed above, America absorbs all the skilled doctors by essentially paying more.
This means other countries get stuck with the less skilled doctors, and less doctors overall which leads to people having to wait.

This isn't a flaw of government health care, this is the flaw of America digging their feet in when all the other countries are moving forward.
And before something along the lines of "Well you just said America is doing better with Doctors, therefore America's system is best".
First, like detailed above it prevents many citizens from being productive.

Secondly, it only benefits america atm because they're the only one doing it.
If everyone adopted america's laws then no Doctor would be rushing for america. America would lose it's edge in skilled doctors, and then every country would have skilled doctors and not face issues of lack of skill or lack of numbers. But they would simply be left with doctors only treating people who pay the most. While other citizens turn from being productive members into either corpses or family dependent.

If America adopted government health care though? America would still lose it's edge, and other countries not face the above issues. But it also means every citizen can go back to contributing to society.

Revans Exile said If the Canadian health care system was so great then why is sophisticated diagnostic equipment scarce and growing scarcer? As in Washington state (Population: 4.6 million) has more MRIs than the country of Canada (Population: 26 million).


This one could be for medical treatment reasons.
I'm not a doctor myself so I can't say for sure or the validity of one vs the other, but this could more be different approaches to treatment.

However it should be noted that better paid doctors also = better equipment.

Revans Exile said If the Canadian health care system was so great then why are patients denied care, forced to cope with increasingly antiquated hospitals and equipment, and can die while waiting for treatment (as in never getting any treatment in the first place)?


No one in Canada get's denied care, waiting and delays just tend to happen for the same reason detailed above. America absorbs most of the doctors.

Revans Exile said If the Canadian health care system was so great then why are standards far below those of the United States?


Once again, covered above. America absorbs the better doctors.

Revans Exile said If the Canadian health care system was so great then why are a growing chorus of Canadians, including many former champions of socialized medicine, are calling for return to a market-based system?


You expect to take a vast array of people and generalize their opinions, viewpoints, reasoning and arguments into one statement?
People aren't that simple.

Revans Exile said Luxuries can never be rights.


So... you don't have a right to your own body, to your own free will, to a decent wage if employed etc?
Things like that used to be luxuries at one point or another, they turned into rights as society advanced.
You are quite literally arguing that either humanity or you specifically have not advanced since the day life was first formed.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Robeatics
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Guys, please have a little sensitivity and do not discuss politics in this thread. Jesus.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Gwazi Magnum
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You realize you might have just resurrected an otherwise dead debate right?
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Lillian Thorne
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You make a good point, necro-ing threads is so wrong.
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