[OOC] Battle of Targus IV (Gunther/Starboard Watch)

[Gunther]

I like it, and to me I envision there being more Battalions, upwards to like 90 or so. Would you agree to the sort of British-like Regimental scheme? Other than that, I like it. We would just rename the alotted Battalions to numbers down the chain and have these be like the Battalions on Targus IV.

@Starboard Watch

90!? Really? I have never seen an organization with 90 battalions in it. I wonder what century you are referring to? I've read accounts of British regiments back as far as the 17th century and they were maybe 7 or 8 battalions at most. But they saw how unnecessarily cumbersome they were and scaled it back considerably.

Even in the US Army, the regiments have contained usually three battalions, but there are a few examples where that number is slightly greater, but never 90. That is way to much. I have an essay I wrote on the evolution of organization. I will attempt to post it soon and link it here for you to read. Even if you go back to the Roman era or Genghis Khan, you won't find an organization with 90 battalion sized units. This Panchalan organization I created is larger than the US & British WWI regiments, but not by much.

In 1959, the US Army broke up its regiments and created Brigade units with 3 or 4 maneuver battalions in each brigade. The US Army teaches its company and field grade officers to task organize their subordinate units with a combined arms mix of units. When I was in 1st Brigade, 3rd Armor Division there were two mech infantry, two armor and one field artillery battalion in our brigade. My battalion was mech infantry. Often times when we went to the field, we would give our B company to a sister armor battalion and they would give us their B Company. Then the battalion HQs would give one armor platoon to one of hte companies and another company would give up one of its platoons to the armor company. We would also get an engineer platoon to assist the armor and infantry with their operations. Also integrated into the Brigade Combat Teams were Target Acquisition Specialists from the FA (Forward Observers) and Air Defenders (Duck Hunters).

[Gunther]

Technology Defines Tactics

[Starboard Watch]

I see your point. I guess it was just stylisic on me to have the basis of the Imperial Army be Regiments that are essentially division-sized or so, where depending on the planet's size there are a various amounts of battalions.

[Gunther]

Since this is your artistic endeavor we are building in, give me some information on the army. I took the liberty to name the opposition as Chasseurs, which is a French word for Light Infantry. About how many soldiers do you think are available either in the Royal Panchalan side or the Opposition? I can create some units; in fact, I could create some Volksgrenadier or Jaeger regiments that have six to nine battalions in them. They would be very large. I could write some stuff for you. AS far as Main Battle Tanks go, I was looking at the German Leopard A6 as THE tank for the Panchalans. MOre than likely, our Brigade would have a battalion. That Battalion could have five line companies. At 14 tanks per company that would be 70 tanks plus the Bn Cdr and XO's tanks for a total of 72 tanks in the battalion. Maybe give you a second tank because we have nine infantry battalions in the Brigade which is frickin' HUGE!! O_o Three Panzer Grenadier battalions and six Volksjaeger battalions (people's light infantry) battalions. Then add the two armor battalions and we've essentially created a division and called it a brigade. We'll need an artillery battalion or two. I'd recommend either 155mm cannons or 8" guns. Maybe one of each?

[Starboard Watch]

I think there's probably a good amount on each side, the Imperials and the Rebellion. Probably numbering in the tens of thousands. But for the purpose of the RP, the main focus should be on Childebrand's Fighting Group and the Chasseurs. I guess my view of how the Panchalans were set up was along the lines of the Australian Imperial Force, where they had a lot (like, 70 or so) battalions organized into their force. The whole organization of the Imperial Army is based around the planetary regiments, which are sort of home-units for the battalions which are (typically) leased off into ad-hoc operations under generals. With the Civil War, the principal organization is the Sector Divisions, since the war has grown in such scale. But in the tactical situation, the ad-hoc formations still reign since the doctrine trained into the general staff is hard to break.

My view is that the Panchalans represent just a sliver of the fighting force on the planet, perhaps on a few battalions of them (We could say, the 13th, 17th, and 21st Battalions). The rest are from the Volksgrenadiers, which we can say are the post-outbreak of War units raised to supplement the regimental system, and specialized armor, artillery, and air support units. The Volksgrenadier Regiments are attached to the Sector Divisions in which they were raised and are smaller than the planetary regiments, resembling more of what you would know as the typical regimental battalion size.

The Opposition Forces, I think, should be Alpha Centaurian since we are going with the French theme. My belief on them is that they adapted to a numbered regimental scheme more than the Imperials since they would've had to raise a large amount of men in a quick amount of time, and not many of the Imperial Army regiments would've defected. But we can have some of the units be defectors, say like the 20th, 33rd, and 56th Battalions of the Régiment de Centauri populaire (formerly the Régiment royal de Centauri, renamed to fit the Communistic-like fervor) and some battalions of the Centaurien Chasseurs, with some armor, artillery, and air support units. We can also have some Régiment révolutionnaire (Revolutionary Regiment) units, which will be the same sort as the Imperial Volksgrenadiers.

[Starboard Watch]

Just to clarify as I write my response, they've dismounted and are now about to engage the enemy?

I've decided to slightly alter the style, and to make the Brigadier a Generalmajor to fit with our theme. I feel like, for each Sector Division/System Regiment, the rank system and insignia would remain the same butt what they are called is different. Terrans and their culture-aligned sectors would adopt something more Latin-based, Centaurians and their sectors would've had French-based, Orionians and their sectors would be British or American-based. Something kinda irrelevant to us now but definitely worldbuilding.

[Gunther]

Just to clarify as I write my response, they've dismounted and are now about to engage the enemy?

@Starboard Watch

A General Officer will never place himself in the line of fire; or at least not attack into the enemy while they are defending. Realistically, the Jump TOC should be observing the Main Effort. But stopping to ensure things are happening properly at the penetration point, is OK. This should be a temporary halt for the Jump TOC. The Brigade Commander is more interested in what the rest of 2nd Battalion is doing.

I should draw up some operational graphics to give you a visual of what is going on here. The Jump TOC, which has the Brigade Commander, who should be a Brigadier General has only three small wheeled vehicles. There may be GPMGs mounted on pintles, but they are used only if the officers in this group are threatened. Major Generals command divisions. A division would have two to five Brigades. I actually did some work on that. I will share it with you here.

The Number Eight Company which probably numbers about 148 on hand strength (246 Authorized Strength). They have also lost about six or seven of their tracked vehicles; which they don't need because they don't have the people to ride in them. This Company is conducting a Supporting Mission for the advance elements of the 116th Volksgrenadier Regiment. As the 116th attacks, the Centauri Chasseurs may try to escape and evade the Panchalan attackers by running to their rear. They know a Grenadier unit just blew through their position, but they will be frightened and panicky. The Number eight company is in the defense, waiting for the Chasseurs to come into their lines of fire and engage them; preventing them from escaping.

The Main Effort for the 25th Panchalan Grenadiers is more than a few kilometers to the east engaging Centaurian Armor and APCs along a second line of defense. This would be an armored reconnaissance battalion. The Régiment de Dragons would be a Dragoon Regiment. Dragoons are a type of cavalry. Historically, Dragoons operated as cavalry but served as dismounted infantry on occasions. The French regiment, I modeled the Centaurian armored reconnaissance squadron or battalion after is nothing more than an oversized battalion. I'm going to use a similar structure to organize the Volksgrenadier regiments. This would explain their small size. They are battalion sized, but referred to as Regiments.

This is what the Centaurian unit in the 2nd line of defense is based on. I took this from a French Army organization:

Régiment de Dragons

Regimental Headquarters Company

Battalion Blindée (Armored Reconnaissance Battalion)

Escardon de reconnaissance et d'intervention - Armored recon squadron
1er Escardon blindée - 1st Armored squadron
2e Escardon blindée - 2nd Armored squadron
3e Escardon blindée - 3rd Armored squadron
1er Compagnie de infanterie - 1st Support infantry company
2e Compagnie de infanterie - 2nd Support infantry company
Escadron de commandement et de logistique - Command and logistics squadron
Compagnie d'appui mixte (génie et artillerie) - Mixed engineer and artillery company
Escadron d'intervention de réserve - Reserve squadron

Since their units are just as understrength as the Panchalan units, they would be weakened as well. Probably authorized a few more tanks and APCs than I mention in my post.

This example of a Sector Division has a Divisional Commander who holds the rank of Generalmajor. All of his subordinate Brigade Commanders are naturally, Brigadiers. I've added Panzer battalions to each Brigade. Your 7th and 9th Panzer Battalions are being used for another operation at the moment. I will work on the Volksgrenadier Regiment, the Panzer battalion and am currently working on the Centaurian armored reconnaissance squadron.

Sector Division GODUN

(Generalmajor)

Brigade PASCHAL

13th Royal Panchalan Grenadier Regiment
100th Volksgrenadier Regiment
101st Volksgrenadier Regiment
1st Panzer Battalion
2nd Panzer Battalion
70th Anti-Armor Battalion (36 AT guns /w transports)
341st Transport Battalion
342nd Transport Battalion

Brigade DROGO

17th Royal Panchalan Grenadier Regiment
109th Volksgrenadier Regiment
110th Volksgrenadier Regiment
3rd Panzer Battalion
4th Panzer Battalion
72nd Anti-Armor Battalion (36 AT guns /w transports)
344th Transport Battalion
345th Transport Battalion

Brigade LANFRANC

21st Royal Panchalan Grenadier Regiment
111th Volksgrenadier Regiment
112th Volksgrenadier Regiment
5th Panzer Battalion
6th Panzer Battalion
74th Anti-Armor Battalion (36 AT guns /w transports)
351st Transport Battalion
352nd Transport Battalion

Brigade CHILDEBRAND

25th Royal Panchala Grenadier Regiment
114th Panchala Volunteer Infantry Regiment
116th Panchala Volunteer Infantry Regiment
7th Panzer Battalion
9th Panzer Battalion
76th Anti-Armor Battalion (36 AT guns /w transports)
357th Transport Battalion
358th Transport Battalion

Brigade AUDRAMNUS

102nd Volksgrenadier Regiment
103rd Volksgrenadier Regiment
104th Volksgrenadier Regiment
105th Volksgrenadier Regiment
10th Panzer Battalion
77th Anti Armor Battalion
360th Transport Battalion
362nd Transport Battalion
363rd Transport Battalion
365th Transport Battalion

[Starboard Watch]

An operation graphic would probably help me visualize the situation.

[Gunther]

Ok, I remember where we left off. I reread the IC thread. I'll put together an operations graphic(s) indicating what is going on. Black = buildings/ roads. Blue = Pachalan units. Red = enemy units / locations.

Edit: might use an image from Google naps to display terrain.