Earnest Evans

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Without any need to flesh out and put limits to her abilities, then? Just "can create Noble Phantasms and physical objects"?

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<Snipped quote by Zobozun>

I listed what we've actually seen her use in the anime/manga. Theoretically she could have Archers entire arsenal, but I was trying to limit myself as necessary for the sake of the GM.

Kanshou and Bakuya are her default combat weapons anyway, not something like Excalibur (Which she only used because of bodyjacking and infinite prana via Second Magic)

@Flamelord

Oh! If this is just her "doujin canon" loadout, then I can see why you're including them for posterity. I'd still recommend thinking up a list of what Archer has, and listing what you think you're going to be using. Just randomly pulling out a Noble Phantasm from outside of your CS (and from outside of canon) would be really weird.

Just writing down "Ilya can summon this, this, and this. She can also summon this but it'll kill her." would not only help you flesh out the character away from just her canon appearance, but make it so that you don't have to engage in rampant ass-pulling when the few Noble Phantasms you've listed prove to be woefully inadequate.

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You seem to fundamentally misunderstand things about NP's. The cost of their abilities is not a randomly variable thing, and being a higher rank doesn't inherently mean that it's a better sword in combat. Excalibur, even if NOT projected, is not a OHKO sword of doom in melee. Rho Aias is not a feasible defence against anything you're not expecting to promptly annihilate you if it hits. Results aren't something you can just dial down; making Caladbolg II a quite literal artillery piece. Not a highly-versatile short-range explosive.

@Raineh Daze

And all of this calls into question why you'd list them at all. Why would Ilya need a sword or a shield that's only good for killing her? Why would she need a weapon that's only good for destroying rooms and also nearly kills her?

You've already got damn-near unlimited utility with your Mage skills, and a very good reason to use weapons that don't drain prana like water in a desert. A moderately-cheaper Noble Phantasm loadout would not only require you to think more outside the box than copying Archer's moveset, but would actually allow your character to use what they've listed on their sheet.

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<Snipped quote by Earnest Evans>

Er, Excalibur's only notable strength is its ability. A fragile, breakable variant of a sharp sword is not actually that big a deal. Also, projecting said thing isn't an option outside of heroic sacrifices.

Rho Aias is an extremely mana intensive shield against ranged attacks. So, it might shield people from an equally-powerful attack, but there goes most offensive ability.

Caladbolg: so we're comparing it with actual artillery? In that case, I don't see the problem. It's nothing special in the RP.

Exaggerating.

@Raineh Daze

Don't try to pull that "fragile" stuff. Unless you're going to be counting hits left on the Excalibur, the only chance you're ever going to let the thing get broken is if someone else breaks it for you.

Again, we don't see very much use out of Rho Aias that isn't blocking super attacks from an immensely powerful Noble Phantasm, so we don't have a good idea of just how expensive it is to use.

No, not every character has the ability to project a room-clearing missile. Almost every character has small, directed attacks that would only hit a couple targets at most. You still haven't touched upon the issue with the fact that you've got Noble Phantasms and the laundry list of magical powers Ilya has and is proficient with.

Are you going to actually describe a limit to these powers and keep track of Ilya's prana levels, or is this just going to be a "as I decide it" thing where you'll whip out Excalibur and Rho Aias and Caladbolg ad nauseum until the battle's over, and then collapse from prana exhaustion? An infuriating number of people I've played with in Fate RPs decide to make Archer and then completely ignore the whole "summoning Noble Phantasms is draining" aspect until it's most convenient for them.

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<Snipped quote by Earnest Evans>

So wrong on count one, wrong on count two, wrong on count three, and a bunch of things that are less significant than characters who simply happen to have a wide variety of swords.

FFS, if limited to the first three we have:

1) Suicide attack (Projecting Excalibur is not feasible more than once. Literally. And it's only useful if you USE the thing)
2) Extremely exhausting shield against ranged attacks.
3) Caladbolg: actually seems to mostly create an explosion. Since it fails to hurt Berserker with a direct hit, Saber being in the explosion radius, or do more than scratch Shirou, it's not actually that huge.

Now, Archer's actual use of NP's in UBW? Caladbolg IIwhilst he still has a Master. There's Rho Aias UBW after that, but that almost kills the guy, and he's not even doing the insane 'charge these things with mana until they break' trick there. Plus it almost kills him. You're exaggerating.

@Raineh Daze

It barely matters how "crippled" these weapons are compared to their true forms, because their true forms are only not immediate game breakers because of plot armor. Excalibur is one of the greatest swords in the setting almost purely because of its innate abilities (it's almost Red Key-tier sharp and can be swung about as quickly as a damn lightsaber).

Our only idea of how "bad" Rho Aias is is when it's compared to motherfucking Gae Bolg. Even a severely-crippled Rho Aias would be an impenetrable shield on par with just saying "it doesn't hurt me"!

Caladbolg, meanwhile, completely ruined Caster in one blow and, even when it didn't beat Berserker, it turned a large portion of the cemetery they were in into a smoking crater, and then destroyed a hill top with it. Even severely crippled, Caladbolg is basically a man-portable bunker buster.

Beyond that, there seems to be a severe issue with how you've listed them as usable by Ilya. If these weapons very nearly killed the original Archer while using them, why even list them as possible for the apparently weaker Ilya? It's guaranteed to kill her if she makes them!

This is exactly why you need to strictly define what you can summon up and how draining it is to do so. Otherwise we run into situations where Ilya will be able to make objects that the other Archer very gave himself a hernia doing so.

Archer is a Fate powergamer's favorite class, and I'm really seeing a lot of powergaming fuel here.

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And if it's really a problem to the GM, I can limit her to Kanshou + Bakuya, Excalibur, Cadalbolg II, Fake Nine Lives, and Rho Ais.

@Flamelord

Oh yes, I'm sure being able to use Excalibur, one of the greatest Noble Phantams that turns anyone with magical abilities into a super-superhuman, Rho Ais, a shield that blocks damn near anything (including Noble Phantasms), Caladbolg II, a sword that completely penetrates any magicall defenses and is a really good sword otherwise, tied with a wide variety of useful magical skills doesn't make this character overpowered.

You've got a grab bag of ultraweapons, the ability to summon them almost at will, and the powers of an excellent Mage on top of that!

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Keep in mind that, when you consider "broken", you're going by Type/Moon mechanics, where the baseline of power for a Servant is "can shrug off bullets to the spine". In a game where almost all combat is basically Dragon Ball Z, Archer being able to summon Noble Phantasms at will and use them quite well is fine. In Fate, powers are vaguely-defined and the power level starts at about the same level where Luke Cage starts having to think outside the box.

In a game like this one, where most characters are at or somewhat above "street-level superhero" and don't have Rank C Speed, someone like Archer is a godly-powerful monster of a man. Archer!Ilya at the power level described here would be fully capable of going toe-to-toe with many of the characters here and winning by a landslide. Noble Phantasms are serious shit, and being able to bring up even a "mediocre" Phantasm is basically the equivalent of being able to pull a +5 Vorpal Blade straight out of the air at will.

If you're going to keep true to your promise of Ilya having limited prana and only being able to summon up a few Noble Phantasms, I'd probably make a list and actually keep track of them as you go.

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The Reality Marble is effective, sure, and it is an important part of Archer's concept. However, since this is Archer's powers we're talking about and this isn't a strictly Fate-based game (where Archer's reality marble would be actually necessary to succeed), you don't need a trump card to steamroll the opposition.

There's always a Noble Phantasm that's useful for a certain situation, and, Ilya being Archer, has largely-unlimited access to a majority of them. The line between "I think Ilya can use this" and "I don't think Ilya can use this" will be almost entirely arbitrary (as it really feels like it is in kaleid liner PRISMA, to be honest). Archer is basically Batman with magic hammerspace instead of plot hammerspace. That they won't be able to pull out the Bat-Davy Crockett or the Bat-Omega Force is not a great restriction.

I know you feel like you'll be able to keep yourself from engagin in powerwanking, but it's almost impossible to avoid that with a character like Archer. Being able to pull out (nearly) any weapon you want at will, with the only restriction being a nebulous amount of prana that won't be near-depleted until you think you can get away with it.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but this character is gonna be a huge strain on the trust of anyone RPing with you. Archer!Ilya is a character with nearly-unlimited potential, and is going to force the general power level of the RP to extracosmic levels wherever she goes.

I mean, I know she's not as powerful as Gilgamesh, but that's not a big difference since she's still got most of his powers, an easy way to regain prana, and poorly-defined powers that will generally result in you being able to pull out a big "I Win" button whenever you want.

It really feels like you're trying to sneak in Gilgamesh under a pretense of "no guys this version is totally weaker".

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<Snipped quote by The_written_John>

Castle: SE wants to steal from it, other people are getting ready to stop them.
Shocker+ is on a recruitment drive and I have no idea how they're managing it.
Someone just set a school on fire.

@Raineh Daze

Also

Ice Moon: A Donte, a Dante, and a Khajiit walk into a bar. Several hungry wendigoes attack them. The bartender looks at them and attacks them because he too is a wendigo. If you want to get right into a conflict without any rhyme or reason, this is where you should go.

Freddy Fazbear's Pizzeria: People of Shocker+ are recruiting and preparing to prepare to fight Shadow Eternity.

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<Snipped quote by Earnest Evans>

Fair enough.

Seriously though, she only has some of his abilities, not all of them. As far as the series has gotten, she can't generate a reality marble, or make multiple copies of NP's in midair (IIRC). And she's not as good at it as Archer himself is. And if she burns through all her prana, she'll cease to exist. So it isn't that bad.

@Flamelord

Come on, we know those aren't major setbacks. Reality Marbles are nice, but being able to summon Noble Phantasms beats that the fuck out. Not being able to make multiple copies of a Noble Phantasm certainly wouldn't stop you from creating a single instance of the most powerful one and roflstomping anyone who isn't another Fate character or similarly powerful. Being limited by prana hasn't set back any of the other Fate characters I've seen in other multiverse RPs, since nobody ever bothers to keep track of it.

Archer! Ilya is an immensely overpowered character, and is almost guaranteed to end in colossal power-wanking between the three or so characters who can keep up. At least Superman is largely restricted to what he can look at or touch.

Beyond that, Ilya can get prana from other people. It's not even very difficult, just smooch a comrade or grapple someone.