idlehands

Meanwhile, in Opposite World Florida

Turt said Some people just can't let go of an argument.

Back to racial tensions and injustice in the US then?

Meanwhile, in Opposite World Florida

Nex said There aren't many Russian immigrants to Ukraine, really. Ukraine is poor. Russia is poor too, but Ukraine is worse. That's part of the reason behind Ukrainians voting for integration with Russia; the country was better off, in some ways, during the days of the Soviet Union. Only older Ukrainians can remember those days.

I think that Russians in Ukraine should either embrace Ukrainian culture and identify as Ukrainian, or leave for Russia.

Then you ARE talking about ethnic Russians who are born on Ukrainian soil. I don't know if it is the same there, if someone is born there they are a citizen automatically, but obviously these people have voting rights in the Ukraine. They are citizens of that country and you would just round them up and ship them off to Russia despite the fact that the Ukraine is their home.That's a completely rediculous and far fetched idea, not to mention inhumane.

As you say, there is an older population of ethnic Ukrainians as well as Russians voting for a Russian friendly government. They do this because they remember the slightly better days under the Soviet regime. While the younger generation has a more Western outlook thanks to the ability to access information that their parents and grandparents never had. The youth has every right to protest, they're citizens, hell I support their cause. But saying to get rid of whole population of people because they're not playing right is just silly and dangerous.

Meanwhile, in Opposite World Florida

Nex said Once again, I do not think a certain ethnic group should be deported.

When I say 'Ukrainian' or 'Russian', I mean someone who identifies as either Ukrainian or Russian. This isn't North America, there are no hyphenated nationalities in Eastern Europe. If you're in Ukraine, identify solely as Russian and speak only Russian, you should not be voting in Ukrainian politics, particularly when you're voting for integration of the country you're a foreigner in with your home country.

Ok let's just get something straight. If you identify yourself with a certain culture based on language, religion, certain beliefs, that would be ethnicity. Whether you are in the US or in the Ukraine, it doesn't matter.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ethnic

You're saying to deport an ethnic group, not just recent immigrants.

Meanwhile, in Opposite World Florida

Nex said But back on topic—I think Ukrainians should be the sole people deciding the fate of Ukraine.

Halo was asking you a question, not putting words in your mouth. Answer him.

How do you define a "Ukrainian"? Someone born there? Someone who moves there legally and gets residency? I think you agree with the movement's protest against the pro-Russian government and their desire to become more Western and democratic, which is fine, but saying to deport a certain ethnic/immigrant group is bullshit.

Nex said Idlehands changed the subject to try and discredit me based off of my opinion on an unrelated topic.

I don't have to try to discredit you.

Meanwhile, in Opposite World Florida

Nex said No. Some Ukrainians voted pro-Kremlin as well. There's no black and white divide. An important thing to remember is that Euromaidan is primarily a youth movement. Many older Ukrainians support integration with Russia.

So, that there are Ukrainians who support or at least did support the currently elected president. Not all the votes came from Russian immigrants. So why are you supporting the deportation of these people that are there legally, which I'm assuming they are since they were allowed to vote. And no one's putting words in your mouth.

Meanwhile, in Opposite World Florida

Nex said Viktor Yanukovych was elected, idlehands. He was elected by Russians in Ukraine. The Ukrainian people want the Russian government not to hold sway over their own, and in order for that to happen, pro-Kremlin parties have to stop being elected in Ukraine. The only way for that to stop is either for pro-Kremlin parties to be banned, or Russians insistent on bringing Russia to them rather than going back to Russia to leave.

So now there are more Russians in the Ukraine than there are Ukrainians?

Nex said I never said anything about deporting people of Russian descent, idlehands made that up.

I didn't make it up, you should be more clear about who specifically you're speaking of. When you say Russian, that can be anything from an ethnic Russian to a recent immigrant. Just like when people say Mexicans here in the US, they tend to blanket Chicanos and recent immigrants under the same, if incorrect, term.

Meanwhile, in Opposite World Florida

Nex said There is going to be tensions between Ukrainians and Russians for as long as there are Russians in Ukraine.

There will be tensions in Iraq with Sunnis, Shittes, and Kurds. There will be tensions in Israel with Israelis and Palastinians. There will be tensions in France with Muslim immigrants. There will be tensions Bosnia with Croats and Serbs. Pick a country and there will be tensions between people of different cultures who view each other as a danger to their way of life. You can't solve those things with deporting one group or another. People will have to learn to live together and treat each other with at least a bit of decency or decline into warfare. It can be done. The real issue is the Ukrainian people not wanting the Russian government to hold sway over their own.

Meanwhile, in Opposite World Florida

Halo said hey
let's just get rid of everyone we don't like
that always ends well

You have to remember, this is coming from the same guy who sees the solution to the Ukrainian troubles as deporting anyone who is of Russian descent from those countries back to Russia. Because, you know, deportation of mass populations always works out.

Meanwhile, in Opposite World Florida

Nex said First of all, Zimmerman was not a white male.

If you looked around enough you'd be able to find plenty of cases less publicized than these where the innocent victims weren't minorities, so nobody cared whether they were killed unjustly or not. I'm not comparing myself to anyone or anything, I'm just getting tired of the rampant double standard in society over what people care about and what they don't.

These grown men instigated the fights by trying to be hardasses with teenagers and then felt scared when the kids didn't cower. That they both, especially Dunn, took it upon themselves to stick their noses into situations where they had no business and then ended up using lethal force is a bigger issue to me than the color of their skin. Zimmerman fancied himself neighborhood watch, well that means watch not go up to someone and demand to see their papers. And Dunn...he was just an asshole who should have just ignored the damn music. Two kids dead because some men just have to feel like a big shot.

Stand Your Ground shouldn't mean going up and starting trouble and then panicking and shooting someone because they don't do what you ask them to do.

Meanwhile, in Opposite World Florida

Turt said In November 2012, Michael Dunn, a 47-year-old white male stopped at a local gas station in Jacksonville, Fla. with his then-fiancée. When he pulled up at the gas station parking lot, he parked next to a car full of young, black male teens playing loud music. In the backseat of the car of teens was Jordan Davis, a 17-year-old from Marietta, Ga.

Dunn apparently asked the teens to turn down their music. A verbal altercation ensued between Dunn and Davis. According to Dunn, Davis pulled out some object that appeared to be a shotgun. Dunn pulled his 9mm gun out of his glove compartment and fired eight or nine times into the car full of young teens. Jordan Davis was killed. Police never found any gun or object that Davis could possibly have used that Dunn would have mistaken for a gun.

Dunn left the scene of the shooting, went back to his hotel with his fiancée and ordered pizza. He never called the police.

Based on these facts, why couldn't a diverse jury find Dunn guilty of murder (rather than attempted murder)? The answer is simple: The law of self-defense in Florida does not require an individual to flee to avoid using lethal force. And, at least two Florida juries have interpreted the law to mean that anytime a young black male is present, the "reasonable fear" requirement (that allows a person to use lethal force) is satisfied.

Source: http://www.policymic.com/articles/82555/jordan-davis-was-killed-because-of-america-s-fear-of-young-black-men

And this is why people should mind their own business. It was a gas station, they would have had to deal with the loud music for what like five minutes while getting their stuff and pumping gas? It's not like these kids pulled across the street from Dunn's home. He should have just let it go instead of trying to be a hardass and impress his chick. Now one kid is dead and his ass should go to jail for being that stupid.

And that shit happened in Jacksonville, big surprise there.