Kaben... you're awesome...
Can't talk. Amon the phone.
KabenSaal Member
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- KabenSaal 13 yrs ago
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Can't talk. Amon the phone.
I have to share these.
I googled "German Pride" and found this on the first page...
More to come soon...
I googled 'The most british picture ever'
You know, taking it seriously now, I actually put forward a question in a debating thread about the nukes of Japan. I got this back.
'The bombing of Japan was the beginning of the Cold War. You can list all sorts of reasons for it, but its really simple. Germany had just been defeated a few months before, and Russia had begun the process of controlling East Germany. The Potsdam Accord was signed on Aug 1st, with France signing on Aug 4th. None of the western nations liked it, but they were trying to prevent another war between Russia and the US/UK. Patton had already suggested invading Russia since the troops were already there, and Churchill had drawn up some plans. It was as tense a situation as there can be, so the accord was signed. Russia then declared war on Japan, they had been neutral towards each other up until this point though Stalin had agreed to declare war after Germany was defeated. He did as he promised, but Germany was defeated in April when Hitler was killed and officially surrendered on May 7 and he waited until he forced the other allies into giving up half of Germany before he committed to war in Japan.
On Aug 6th the first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. They had already been planning a full scale invasion of Japan, with Russian help already promised. However the US, UK, and France were nervous as hell about Russian involvement after what happened in Germany. My opinion is that the bombs were dropped so that Japan would surrender to the US, and not to Russia. Technically they surrendered to the allies, but they did so before Russia could move troops across Manchuria and secure any of the Japanese held territory for their own.
It wasn't about the number of soldiers that would be saved trying to island hop across the Marianas, it was about ending the war as fast as possible to limit the spread of Soviet communism.
What most people don't realize is that the targets of the atomic bombs, including those not actually bombed, were going to be firebombed if nukes weren't used. Nuking a city takes one bomb and one mission. Firebombing, and this was the case with the infamous Tokyo firebombing of "Operation Meetinghouse" (March 9-10, 1945), including multiple raids on the same target. Tokyo was hit more than once. So, Hiroshima and Nagasaki and all the other cities spared conventional bombing because they were potential nuke targets would, I would argue, have suffered more casualties if they were conventionally bombed. Another tidbit most don't realize is that we kept bombing Japan even after Hiroshima and Nagasaki were nuked. Japan was going to be burned to the ground whether or not "Fat Man" and "Little Boy" were dropped or not'
'The bombing of Japan was the beginning of the Cold War. You can list all sorts of reasons for it, but its really simple. Germany had just been defeated a few months before, and Russia had begun the process of controlling East Germany. The Potsdam Accord was signed on Aug 1st, with France signing on Aug 4th. None of the western nations liked it, but they were trying to prevent another war between Russia and the US/UK. Patton had already suggested invading Russia since the troops were already there, and Churchill had drawn up some plans. It was as tense a situation as there can be, so the accord was signed. Russia then declared war on Japan, they had been neutral towards each other up until this point though Stalin had agreed to declare war after Germany was defeated. He did as he promised, but Germany was defeated in April when Hitler was killed and officially surrendered on May 7 and he waited until he forced the other allies into giving up half of Germany before he committed to war in Japan.
On Aug 6th the first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. They had already been planning a full scale invasion of Japan, with Russian help already promised. However the US, UK, and France were nervous as hell about Russian involvement after what happened in Germany. My opinion is that the bombs were dropped so that Japan would surrender to the US, and not to Russia. Technically they surrendered to the allies, but they did so before Russia could move troops across Manchuria and secure any of the Japanese held territory for their own.
It wasn't about the number of soldiers that would be saved trying to island hop across the Marianas, it was about ending the war as fast as possible to limit the spread of Soviet communism.
What most people don't realize is that the targets of the atomic bombs, including those not actually bombed, were going to be firebombed if nukes weren't used. Nuking a city takes one bomb and one mission. Firebombing, and this was the case with the infamous Tokyo firebombing of "Operation Meetinghouse" (March 9-10, 1945), including multiple raids on the same target. Tokyo was hit more than once. So, Hiroshima and Nagasaki and all the other cities spared conventional bombing because they were potential nuke targets would, I would argue, have suffered more casualties if they were conventionally bombed. Another tidbit most don't realize is that we kept bombing Japan even after Hiroshima and Nagasaki were nuked. Japan was going to be burned to the ground whether or not "Fat Man" and "Little Boy" were dropped or not'
<Snipped quote by KabenSaal>
This statement in no way addresses or reflects any comments made by either Lucius or me. You're not taking this seriously.
Yep, not in the slightest. It's a mental tick I have. I can't take anything serious on the internet.
Well, the rules where certainly right. Excessive off topic stuff was met with unhappy frowns all around.
So, basically, history is what you make of it, and everyone is, or has the potential to be a lying asshole for something that happened so long ago.
Got it.
Got it.
Anything that costs money is not a right, it is a commodity. I don't know what stats you've been looking at, but the economies of European countries right now are downright awful. Only Germany and Britain are even industrial nations anymore. Just look how well socialized medicine is working for Greece at the moment.
The military in the US employs millions of people. Cut it off, and you've got even more people stuffed into a poor job market. Plus, there's the whole war going on right now against an extremist group that wants to kill us for our basic ideals of freedom.
Kaben, I suppose you are right--fighting to break free from a position beneath the foot of tyrannical colonial rule involved murder, and taking away land and resources from a cross-country British empire to establish an independent nation was theft. If you're going to sling insults and generalizations rather than actually contribute to a debate, then you may be silent.
I actually was referring to the people that where already there at the time. And the Pilgrim Fathers left England because it wasn't catholic enough for them. And when they got there and saw that people where already present, they killed them and stole their stuff.
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