Shienvien

The Prophecy

@ASTA:

Dark Jack said "Their souls at some point developed a defect that cause them to disintegrate if they aren't bound to a body" certainly is [an explanation]]. This would be an acceptable basis for the trait to exist.

Citing it in case you missed it. Basically, both faith-related reasons (which would be somewhat unreliable) and their souls being different (which would more or less ensure none of them would ever have an afterlife) would work.

Dark Jack said Generally speaking magical energy can only be manipulated, and thus also drained, through magic (which is a wide term in this case, basically referring to the control of energy with one's mind). Both the Xuhrl-njok and Gerald do it by touching their victim and pulling energy from it and into themselves by extending the flow of their own souls into the other's, and I honestly think that is the most feasible way to do it.

yoshua171 said So if the key way we see mortal beings absorbing magical energy be through a magical process, and we see that Del-korm already have rather strange soul make-up [...] then would it be too far of a stretch to say that the process that allows them to increase the power of their Echoing(magic) by way of absorbing the voice(magic) of another be something that can be attributed to a soul evolution/mutation?

Seeing how his mother and him share the trait, making it another mutation could work, perhaps (as far as I am aware). ASTA considered it interesting, from what I know.

Dark Jack said All of the gods (excluding Rilon) have an innate desire to do good, but they also have different perceptions of what "good" and "evil" is. Frenis may seem more evil than good to most, but that doesn't mean that he himself doesn't view his actions as benevolent.

How is the drive to do good orientated? Solely according to the specific individual's understanding of good and evil? (With deities getting a pass from the usual consequences of being judged by others, since their alignment is predetermined ... meaning that they can have rather twisted perception of good and evil with little repercussions aside of the disdain of fellow deities.)
- I recall you described Rilon as not understanding good (?), and being unable to act good no matter what he wanted (though it could be just the drive to do evil overpowering his conscious thinking).

(Random: what creatures do get an afterlife? Do all at least somewhat intelligent animals get one? (Animals who are intelligent enough to like or dislike certain individuals, for example?) What about plants (or, at least, poor Anaxim)?)

And I see about the deities not affecting their followers' location more specifically, and there being no division to regions present. I take that canonically, what specific deity you believe in has little effect on what your afterlife would be like?

The Prophecy

In regards to nature, mothers eating their own young is extremely common... Evolutionarily, a fertile grown female is often far more valuable. The offspring most likely won't survive on their own, but the female can always have a new litter next month or year if she survives. Even with most social animals, the survival of fertile adults is usually heavily favored, since it is more beneficial to the species and community as a whole.

(Lions for one *very* often eat their young. If the pride gains a new head, eating all the young cubs is nearly the first thing he will do... Almost all rodents will eat their young when they become excessively threatened... Chimpanzees, which are normally herbivores, sometimes attack other chimpanzee groupings, and when they kill someone then, they will make an exception to their diet and cannibalize. With many species of fish, the young of the same species is a very significant portion of the diet. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera... Nature *is* cruel. Cannibalism and ritualistic murder were very common amongst some nature-peoples, too.)

And yeah, I don't see del-korm more evil than, say, cats or hamsters...

(Also, plants feel pain and communicate to one another, too... The chemical consistency of the other end of your law changes almost as soon as you start your lawn mower, and you won't even be anywhere near said plants yet. The "smell of freshly cut grass" is the smell of chemicals only emitted by grass plants in response to extreme stress; normally they smell different.)

Dark Jack said That aside, I'm sorry but I really need more, namely an explanation as to why they don't have afterlives.

From what you have said before, I gathered it is not impossible? And even before that, you have in several places, stated that souls do evolve over generations, too, not just physical forms? I would say it could be a "racial defect", a mutation that occurred once long ago that makes their souls fall apart after death rather than stay in a condition that would permit passing on or becoming a ghost? As in, their souls actually need bodies to stay together?
(I would, in general, suggest that everything that isn't impossible should be allowed for RP purposes, lest the process of integrating new ideas becomes grueling and starts killing motivation and hampering creativity. Didn't you yourself once say that your novels are yours only, but the RP here is the collaborative creation of us all?)

Dark Jack said For them to have anything akin to an ability to consume their opponents' voices to increase their own power, it would probably need to be explained as draining magical energy from them.

Yes, they are intended use the magical energy of those they defeat/kill... The only real question is how exactly the process of acquiring said magical energy goes.

Dark Jack said It seems like del-korm would have no moral compass with the way they work, meaning that their pursuit of "carving one's legacy into the fabric of time" could just as easily (or more easily, even) be accomplished by acts of cruelty as it could by acts of glory.

I think this is what the "reputation as currency" and related aspects are there for. Horrific acts cause hatred, and if you are hated so much, you will most likely be just killed off quite quickly.

Dark Jack said It's not something that is constantly relevant, no (in fact I did decide that the Seeds do not affect a being's personality unless one or both of them are missing, but are indeed solely a mechanic for determining afterlife and, in some cases, manifesting an aura of one alignment or the other in beings who exhibit exceptional growth of one of them), but they are there.

This is essentially what I meant with "not paying not much mind to it" when writing characters. As long as my character is alive, is not a demonspawn, and doesn't somehow get either seed (or both) removed they do not affect what my character does? Was a bit bad wording here.

What does somewhat ... puzzle me, though, is the fact that several of the gods, who are supposed to only have a seed of good each (the renegade demon lord, Rilon, excluded) are either morally questionable (Deliph) or considerably more evil than good (Frenis). [With my personal set of morals taken as a basis, granted, but the basics should overlap with quite a lot.] Greed and selfishness are quite universally considered "evil" traits. Granted, there are many evil and/or questionable gods in various mythologies, but in those gods are (as a rule) not supposed to be thoroughly benevolent...

Oh, and a point Legion did bring up: does the deity you believe in any way influence your afterlife in the canon? Assume you don't become demon/angel. (I assume most devils will just want more demon minions, though.) Do the deities have sort of regions for their specific followers that they designed (and which said followers are free to migrate out of), for instance?

The Prophecy

Dark Jack said I am privately still trying to work out some kind of justification as to just why consuming another being's heart would increase one's magical powers, though... It makes sense with harvesters, because they are fundamentally different from mortals and don't have souls as mortals do. The heart is the seat of the Seeds only, which is a part of the soul separate from its magical energy... I'll have to think of something there.

Doesn't necessarily have to be eating the heart (as that more specifically has only been a thing due to harvesters somehow gaining more strength for it), I think; there just has to be something to stand in for the voice-consumption aspect present in his own canon. They do indeed tend to eat their dead since they believe it will give them the strength of the dead one ... and partly because they require a lot of food to sustain themselves and cannot afford waste. Er ... yeah. Would something else be more easily explainable?

Dark Jack said And it was decided that they would not have afterlives? Because of their believing that they won't have them or because they are somehow fundamentally incapable of having them?

They are fundamentally incapable of having afterlives. "Once you check out, that's it," as ASTA put it.

Dark Jack said Eating a heart could indeed be considered acceptable by some cultures, but unfortunately this is not the case in Rodoria... or most of civilized Reniam, for that matter. And since the growth of one's Seeds of Good and Evil is affected by others' perception of what you have done the act would have a very strong evil tint to it there, and even in lands where it was considered non-evil it would still cause some growth simply due to the general ethical tendency of the Plane as a whole.

A moral overlay that strict kind of bothers me, to be fair... And I think it [existence of seeds of good and evil] was one of the main reasons ASTA went from being unsure about afterlives to "Nope. They definitely don't have them." The same, I have simply ignored the seeds in actual character writing aside of the demonspawn and as a gimmick that determines your afterlife. Since people simply do not change in the way the seeds would suggest they should.

Oh, and we were thinking Legion/ASTA could let their characters meet and do some plot, and Aemoten&co would be picking them up right before Zerul, whenever they get to that point?

Edit: Is it Jack or Nessa in the collab?

The Prophecy

@Rhaevnn Xeno:

The Grand Master

The Grand Master - The Lord of Lies, the Infernal Emperor, the Buyer of Souls, the Foul Merchant, the Ancient One, the Lord of Skull Tower, the Guardian of Hellfire
The only being in all of the Planes not created by the Spirits of Union (aside from the Spirits themselves), the nefarious Grand Master is a symbol of lies and deception and the well-mannered evil. Having once been the lord of all demons, the Grand Master is second in power only to Kreshtaat himself and second in evil to no one, reputedly not even Ismyel herself. His allegiance is to himself alone, to rebuild his wicked empire and steal back the domain that Kreshtaat and the Nomad took from him in the Age of Darkness. His followers wear crimson and use sunstone for their decorations. His followers are those that seek the paths of ambition and evil, yet resent Kreshtaat and his goals for some reason or another. Followers of the Grand Master also seem to more frequently sell him their souls, since they have utter faith that he will not betray them.
Instead of having traditional Favored Ones such as most other deities, the Grand Master prefers to lend his power to those that would serve him otherwise. He acts as an infernal merchant of power, trading things that mortals have for what they want - most commonly they pay with their souls, although he is also known to bargain for their freedom, making them his servants, their health or he might even merely demand a single favor that always turns out to his advantage. In return, the Grand Master can supposedly offer almost anything - power, the ability to ignore the passage of time (also known as pseudo-immortality), wealth, servants, and just about whatever his customers want. Despite that many are skeptical about him and his reputation as a masterful deceiver, the Grand Master is actually bound by a bond that not even he can break once a contract has been signed between him and his customer, ensuring that he always fulfills his end of the bargain as long as the customer fulfills their end. However, he is known to be cunning and treacherous in designing his contracts, sneaking in loopholes that he can use to his own advantage to cheat his customers, so one should always pay close attention to the details, lest one wants to end up with nothing and the Grand Master with everything.

@Jack: From what I talked about with him over Skype, ASTA has opted for the effect of echoing be just physical degradation. (Which wouldn't be all that different from the effects extensive use of magic tends to have on most beings of Reniam. The explanation was a bit different - in his own canon, the body couldn't properly endure the kind of energy coursing through it, and thusly took damage... But the result is somewhat similar in both cases, so just going with the effects of magical exhaustion would be easiest.)
As for the consuming hearts as a replacement for voice-consumption, then no, it is not supposed to regress the damage the echoing deals to the body; it merely makes the maximal power of the skill grow. I guess the other soul could be sort-of "digested" before it adds to the echoer's soul? It (or echoing itself) having any kind of effect on the mind - Claw slowly going insane, becoming more good/evil, et cetera - is something that ASTA definitely wants to avoid.
As another note, he has decided that del-korm as a race do not have afterlives. (I assume their souls simply disperse and become ambient background energy unless they get consumed..)
But ... I guess with this magical part (hopefully) sorted out, he could just go forth and just post the CS?

((On another note, (and leaving aside the fact that the harvester-style heart consumption more specifically also eliminates the souls of beings who would otherwise have afterlives) I'd say that eating the dead is a complete moral gray. The dead being is dead already; no one gets hurt if the remains are eaten. Our aversion of it is mainly cultural.))

The Prophecy

Sniffers sensed other things but the strength of others' souls, though? From their magical alignments, control of self, to emotional states?
(Random: I was assumed Gerald was so surprised at not sensing Immanuel after he had been turned because he was not a sniffer, and could be sensed before? Or are necromancers (or can they be) skilled enough to pick out sniffers regardless of them being sniffers? I recall Gerald could pick up that Aemoten's rather calm demeanor and actual state did not match up, for instance.)

(Did you miss ASTA's post on the last page, or are you simply thinking over it? I can never tell, hence me reiterating things when you post but make no comment about them.)

The Prophecy

Xuhrl-njok do not consume hearts - only the harvesters do. Xuhrl-njok drain at will when touching whatever they want to drain, or with weaker lifeforms and ambient magic, just by being near. (Since there seems to have occurred some confusion.)

The Prophecy

My main point in that was that you can get quite far with observation and pure trial and error, even if you do not know how the things you do precisely work. (In the end, there was already an individual who used a thin ray of extremely concentrated light to neatly and nigh-instantaneously cut through matter, which isn't perhaps the most obvious application of light, either.)

Hrm... And if Olan does still not know what more to do (I doubt Thaler will be taking much initiative right now), you could post just Jaelnec's (and possibly the corporal's) reaction to Aemoten? He would be heading over to the others soon enough; it just turned out there were a few things to be said as he was trying to gather himself up after the fight.

The Prophecy

(I posted in collab yesterday.)

I think I touched on magic being somewhat linked to knowledge some time back... Essentially it comes down to how well you observe (well, Claw observes) sound-phenomena, no? (As it so is that just seeing a fire allows you to make something that looks and behaves almost like fire, and the heat can cause purely natural fire to ignite atop of it.) Acoustic levitation and impact treatment, as well as the ability to cause remote precision-explosions in non-vacuum conditions (interference can both weaken and amplify a wave phenomenon ... make the waves interfere in a specific way after going through anything in between without causing any damage and you get a strong enough spike to make an explosion, and potentially a rather powerful one) are fairly unlikely to have noticed, but other things... That silence is just the lack of sound, that sound is reflected back as an echo that returns the faster the closer the surface, that rather loud noises really hurt (and perhaps even someone who has gone deaf, had ears bleed, collapsed unconscious, or even died from a loud sound in his vicinity), noticed how you can feel vibrations in your chest with very low sounds, how glass cups might decide to "sing along" to the notes they themselves produce, how some things may break to sound, or how a loud sound can trigger an avalanche... Yeah. So he could technically replicate a very wide array of effects just by having figured out they occur by seeing, feeling, and hearing them.
- If he noticed that a thing decided to respond to a sound, and then increased the loudness out of sheer boredom, I'd assume said thing might still eventually explode, since the structure (though not the molecules ... the structure itself, since molecules are usually too high frequency to be identified as sounds; no living being can hear sonic water-vaporizers, for instance) is, after all, still subjected to its own frequency at extremely high volume.

(...It also doesn't take being consciously aware of the thing's structure for me to know when a tool I am holding will snap if I strain it just a marginal amount more. And as far as I am aware, I have been quite right in my conclusions - when it comes to things being destroyed when I ignore that feeling, anyway. Not only did I break a spade or two (well, it was two), but I also managed to make a high carbon steel knife abruptly explode into shrapnel one time. So ... yeah. If I warn you something will most likely break, it most likely will.)

And congratulations on being accepted, Jack! That's a good news indeed.

@Nessa: Wishing you good luck for tomorrow.

The Prophecy

Just for the record, what I mentioned was the general possibility of draining magical/soul energy from the environment (such as what for example liches and to an extent plants have been described to do) or other beings (xuhrl-njok, what Gerald/the Withering has been doing) when he brought up soul-consumption as an ability.
(I have since also pointed out soul sizes vary by individual/species, and that only the "size" of the soul grows with magic-usage, not necessarily the reliability of your magic (although the latter is trainable, too). And other various bits, ways that souls in this world work a bit differently than voices/souls of his own setting.)

- And before it is raised as a concern, what ASTA listed are (some of) the theoretically possible applications of such sound magic, not necessarily things that Claw himself has mastered. And what he can do is often more the result of trial and error, I think ASTA mentioned; he is obviously no molecular physicist (descriptions on this level are for OoC clarity's sake).

Hrm... I have sort of been considering the initial titles references for players, rather than what the people are known as in the world? Aemoten's immortality is certainly one thing he is usually very reserved about, and only handful of people know of (even with Olan, Thaler, and soon Jaelnec included ... there are exactly two other living people who are aware of the fact). Etakar I am not counting in here; he is a bit of a hard-to-determine case.

(By the way, have you extended the world? The last time I asked, the areas past relevant areas of Kirirak weren't too detailed (and Reniam wasn't even decidedly a planet or anything else), aside of Junica being somewhere west of the Yawning Gorge.)

The Prophecy

@Ink Blood: You should have gotten the PM some time yesterday; just noting because the current see-whether-the-number-has-changed stand-in for notifications doesn't make it the easiest to realize that you've received something.

@Jack: This is Legion's character's companion [NPC]. Will try to PM what the deal with him is soon.

Hmm... And I guess you could simply add the titles for new characters a bit later if they don't come to you immediately? Knowing my own dislike for character sheets, and the need to actually play/write a new one a bit before I know who and what they are.

On another note, ASTA let us know that he has lost Internet connection (and before that, his laptop's cord had died, which left him only with a PC he could lend ... a PC which now has no connection, if I understood correctly). He is therefore a bit MIA.

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Name: Domhnall MacRaith

Ethnicity and species: Forestfolk éireannach

Sex/gender: Male/man

Age: 42

Physical build and appearance:
Domhnall stands at about six feet tall, and has the narrow frame and greater range of flexibility typical for his species and ethnicity. His form is lean-muscled and fit, and while he cannot boast with impressive physical prowess, he nevertheless has enough upper body strength to be able to fairly easily pull himself up and onto whatever support he can get a proper hold of. His movements almost always seem to be rapid.
His skin very strongly displays the distinctive complexion characteristic to the Forestfolk, being a seemingly random asymmetrical pattern of various light green and light brown splotches. The pattern of his skin does not truly change over time - it could probably be used for identification -, but mostly depending on how much or little sun he has received lately, the colors may become either lighter or darker, and the general tone either more prominently green or brown respectively. The overall coloration of his skin even encompasses his narrow lips, which are just a tone darker than the brown patch that can be seen covering the lower right half of his cheek and jaw ... or could be seen covering, if he did not incidentally wear a rather thick full beard.
Domhnall's eyes are dark green and have a somewhat rounded almond shape; his nose is thin - as is probably befitting for his generally narrow face -, his cheekbones slightly underprominent, and his chin squared rather than pointed. His hair, beard and somewhat thick, but well-defined eyebrows are all an almost pure black, with just a barely perceptible undertone of very dark brown. The beard is generally kept between an inch and two long, whereas his wavy hair has typically been left to drop freely to his upper middle back.
Of other discernible features, it is perhaps worth noting that his hands and lower arms each have a number of small scars from various injuries sustained over time, and that his right leg carries an especially nasty torn scar running from the middle of his calf and ending practically at the back of his knee. He probably seriously lucked out with the last one - had the injury reached two inches higher, it would have seriously injured his knee and potentially disabled it, and had it strayed deeper or more to the side, and it would have severed a major vein and made reaching a settlement before bleeding to death questionable.

Carried equipment and clothing:
Domhnall can typically be seen wearing a pair of brown leather boots suitable for trekking and climbing, long neutral-colored pants (of which he carries two extra pairs), and a long shirt, typically green, undyed or light brown (of which he has four extra). Aside of that he has a decent-quality leather vest to protect him from the worst of harm, a backpack for most of his belongings, a belt with two sheathes for knives and a couple of pouches for currency and some other small, frequently needed items respectively. Now, being out of the notably warmer climate of his forested home region, he has also obtained a long dark gray leather coat.
In the way of usable weapons (though their primary function lies in hunting and/or everyday activities) he has a pull-level recurve crossbow made of ash wood, leaf-headed iron spear with a shaft made out of oak, and a total of seven different knives.
Other miscellany he carries include (and are limited to) fourteen rodlin, twenty seven of the quartz currency used amongst deigan, thirteen coins of six other different currencies, around three dozen crossbow bolts, a block of soap from his homeland, flint and tinder, a sharpening stone for the knives, a two-pronged fork, a spoon, a bowl, a small metal cauldron, a flask of water, ropes of varying thickness, a couple of metal release mecanisms and a handful of metal hooks, a couple of metal objects with indeterminable use, some herbs and spices, a marginal amount of food, blanket/mattress, tent-cloth.

Notes on abilities and skills (to be added to upon necessity):
For the duration of the time he lived in his homeland - and largely after the same - he was a hunter; the skills he has today largely derive from the fact. He has had to fight a wild unrestrained animal a couple of times, but has fairly little experience in combating humanoid or otherwise fully sapient beings.