Work_U_Dumb said
Wait someone dropped out. Can I take his position.
I believe there are several people who wanted into the roleplay. I'm not sure who expressed interest first.
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I believe there are several people who wanted into the roleplay. I'm not sure who expressed interest first.
Unfortunate to see someone depart, Kho. Hopefully the people that were just behind me in the line to join the RP haven't all ran off.
The signing of the treaty did not signify a warming of relations, but an exit from total isolationism. It was a symptom of the Meiji Restoration, not an indicator of Sino-Japanese brotherly love. All nations that are not hermit states have formalized contact with their neighbours, whether their neighbours are their allies, or, in this case, their traditional enemies.
Heyitsjiwon said
And yet, you claim "the two nation's governments and citizens hold each other in contempt, and any amount of warmness between them". That's the thing that I'm trying to correct.
The signing of the treaty did not signify a warming of relations, but an exit from total isolationism. It was a symptom of the Meiji Restoration, not an indicator of Sino-Japanese brotherly love. All nations that are not hermit states have formalized contact with their neighbours, whether their neighbours are their allies, or, in this case, their traditional enemies.
Heyitsjiwon said
I wouldn't make the assertion that relations are cold at this point in time. The main point of contention that led to the conflict was the land disputes, which even then didn't cause major diplomatic issues until China sent an army into Korea to crush a rebellion. Japan saw this as a landgrab, and thus the Sino-Japanese War started. Hell, the Tokugawa and Qing didn't have much diplomatic interaction at this point yet. The only interaction they really had was mainly indirect through trade. The only reason that Qing-Meiji relations started to deteriorated was due to numerous interventions in Korea, Formosa, and etc. from both sides from the 1870's and on. Even then, the two signed a friendship treaty in 1871.
The 1871 treaty was the beginning of any kind of formal relations between the two countries, and it was far from anything resembling an alliance.
solamelike said
I did it for peace in Europe...That went well..
The best thing you could've done to ensure peace in Europe was remain neutral in the war and hand over Leopold.
Ampharos said China isn't selling its soul to Britain or France.
Correct. It already sold its soul in the Opium Wars. Now it's selling several hundred thousand of its limbs.
Ampharos said This is opportunism more than anything
Obviously.
China has a reason to want war with Russia. With the Taiping rebellion having magically ended several years early, they have the physical capacity for such a war as well. I don't have a problem with China hungrily eyeing eastern Russia, I have a problem with China not eyeing Japan's possessions in the west just as hungrily. The China-Japan alliance is purely a machination of OOC negotiations; the two nation's governments and citizens hold each other in contempt, and any amount of warmness between them (much less a full fledged alliance) is unrealistic. Should they be as hostile towards each other as they would be if this were during or after the SIno-Japanese wars? Obviously not, but they definitely shouldn't be warm neighbours.
As So Boerd has pointed out, China has just as much to gain from siding with Russia as against them. We're only a few years after the Second Opium War, and now China is joining with the French and British in a large-scale armed conflict? Chinese participation in the War of the Eighth Coalition is grounds for an early Boxer Rebellion.
bigscreech said Also it would give the Russian bear a war on two fronts which would greatly prevent the steam role that was going to take place in Central Europe.
So it was Kho's doing.
idlehands said
Not as good as Halo busting you for the same mistake.
Where? I must not have been paying attention.
Sherlock Holmes said
*Whose
Good catch.
Ampharos said
I don't complain about alliances in this game for the same reason I don't complain about how they work in Victoria 2. I don't really care about being super accurate, and it's fairly logical for people to align with people who they have similar interests regardless of whether or not there's bad history between the two states that they may or may not know about.This is somewhat unrealistic, sure but not nuclear weapons unrealistic. Plus, Outcast knew about this alliance in advance, as long as he gives the okay, I don't care. I'm just in it to play a game.
It's possible to both tolerate something and express concerns about it simultaneously.
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