[OOC] Discipuli Magae (Students of the Witch, a Latin language RP)

[RomanAria]

Note: For the sake of the sanity of everyone involved, I am going to make all of my OOC posts in English. And I will request that all CSes are made in English. I am willing to attempt to translate Latin posts, but not CSes, simply because I am not sufficiently confident in my Latin skills and I do not wish to terribly misread something like I wound up doing multiple times in the interest check.
That being said, welcome to the Students of The Witch Roleplay!
This roleplay will be set in approximately the year 59 AD in the city of Rome. The lady Locusta, after murdering Nero's young half-brother and thus allowing Nero to rise to the emperor's throne, was granted a large estate on which she built an imperially-accredited academy. The students in this academy are, in essence, assassins. They learn to disable targets without leaving a trace behind.
Every year the emperor selects a few children, children of his friends and suckups, from families whom he trusts, and sends them to the lady Locusta. Even his own daughters attend to learn the best ways to dispose of enemies of the state.
So, that's the premise. Ultimately, once all of the people in this RP get used to the way it flows, we may add a subplot. But for now it is character development and interaction to help us further our foreign language skills.
Rules:
In case I have not made it expressly clear, I will do so now: The in-character portion of this roleplay will be conducted entirely in the Latin language. The OOC need not be; in fact, I encourage that it should be in English, to smooth out any miscommunications caused by doing an RP in a language that is seldom written.
Which brings me to my #1 rule. DO NOT USE GOOGLE TRANSLATE. None of us learn, least of all you, from using Google Translate, and it would terribly confuse all the other RPers involved, all the ones who may try to respond to your post.
This being said, wiktionary or whatever other Latin dictionary you might use is perfectly acceptable. I'll have to use one for much of my writing.
Don't worry about your grammar. Mine is really awful. Just as long as you've tried. Even if you mean to say "sarah grabbed her backpack" and what you say translates to "sarah's backpack ate her" as long as you've tried, it's perfect.
Similarly, don't worry about historical accuracy. It's an "alternate universe" of historical events that we don't really know much about.
Please post all characters in the Characters tab. I apologize for not mentioning this earlier.
This concludes the Rules portion of the OOC. Please read on for the Character Sheet outline.
Character Sheet
Name: Self-explanatory. Please try to use vaguely Roman names?
Age: I'd recommend between 12-15 for new students, and students up to the age of 19 if they've been at the academy a while. Much older than 15 and they start to assert their own authority too much, if they haven't met Lady Locusta before, and much younger than 12 and they do not have the coordination or concentration to make poisons, not to mention their youthful ideals cannot handle it.
Year: Basically, how long you've been attending the academy (max 4 years, since the academy was founded in 55-56)
Appearance: Self-explanatory.
Brief biography: See above.
Why he/she wants to be an assassin: Or does (s)he at all? Some do, some don't, but all who are sent to the academy will do it for the good of their families.
This concludes the character sheet.
I look forward to RPing with all of you.

approved characters

None Yet!

[Dedonus]

Which brings me to my #1 rule. DO NOT USE GOOGLE TRANSLATE. None of us learn, least of all you, from using Google Translate, and it would terribly confuse all the other RPers involved, all the ones who may try to respond to your post.
This being said, wiktionary or whatever other Latin dictionary you might use is perfectly acceptable. I'll have to use one for much of my writing.

@RomanAria

There an even better reason why anyone should not use Google Translate. The Latin Google Translate is so terrible at doing its job correct that it is laughable. You are probably better off using a dictionary and a grammar guide than using Google Translate. While it might be able to translate straight forward sentences, it cannot do anything difficult.

Gavisa est certe sublatam Cynthia legem, qua quondam edicta flemus uterque diu, ni nos divideret: quamuis diducere amantis non queat invitos Jupiter ipse duos.

Propertius 2.7.1-4

-Men Cynthia certainly veto the law, which was once delivered each time we mourn, not divide us, although it can not break up the reluctant lover himself, he had two.

Google Translate

Certainly Cynthia was rejoicing that the law had been put struck down, at which, since it was created at one time, each of us mourned for a long time, lest it divide us: although Juppiter himself cannot divide two lovers, who are unwilling (to part ways).

real translation

[RomanAria]

@Dedonus
That was exactly what I was referring to with "Confuse other RPers." And much of its word definitions are messed up.

[rawkhawk64]

Okay, time to try and recall some of my high school Latin... Yay.

[RomanAria]

Yay indeed. I may actually be able to get my CSes up tonight, or maybe not. We'll see.
Also, did I properly use the genitive in the title? It's been since Latin 1 since the last time we translated English-Latin.

[Dedonus]

Yay indeed. I may actually be able to get my CSes up tonight, or maybe not. We'll see.
Also, did I properly use the genitive in the title? It's been since Latin 1 since the last time we translated English-Latin.

@RomanAria

Yes. From what I can tell, it is correct.

[Draconfound]

I'll start working on a CS soon

[RomanAria]

...I legitimately got eight notifications at the same time because I had five RP notifications and three PM notifications. Like, nothing all day, and then... Poof.
Might be a bit on the CSes from me.

[Dedonus]

@RomanAria
I took the leisure to compile some resources that might be useful.

These are the major sources on Locusta.
Tacitus (Annals 12.66 and 13.15), Suetonius ("Life of Nero", 33 and 47), and Cassius Dio (61.34 and 63.3)

Also, from what I can see, it might be interesting to superimpose Medea's character on Locusta. This link to Wikipedia has a list of the works that Medea appears in. Of all those sources, I would recommend Euripides' Medea. While it is a Greek Tragedy, it probably is the most well known depiction of the character. If you need a link to Euripides' Medea, just let me know, although I bet you could find a copy at your local library.

Other authors you should look at are Ovid and Seneca. Seneca actually has his own version of the Medea. The nice think about Ovid, Seneca, Tacitus, and Suetonius is that all their texts are in Latin, so if you find something in them that you like, you can look up the Latin and try to imitate some sections or descriptions.

[RomanAria]

Wow. @Dedonus, I sincerely thank you for the effort you put into this. I tried to do some reading of Ovid this summer and... *cringe* I'd as soon steer away from most of his stuff. But I will certainly look at the specific sources you listed... I plan on going to the library sometime this weekend anyway.

[Dedonus]

Wow. @Dedonus, I sincerely thank you for the effort you put into this. I tried to do some reading of Ovid this summer and... *cringe* I'd as soon steer away from most of his stuff. But I will certainly look at the specific sources you listed... I plan on going to the library sometime this weekend anyway.

@RomanAria

No problem. Yes, Latin poetry can sometimes be tricky, especially when the poet uses Greek words and grammar. If you see some random accusative noun that is a part of the body (hair, head, arms, etc.), the syntax is called a Greek Accusative of Respect.

Also, do you know how to scan Latin poetry? The meter of the poetry helps sometimes, especially when it tells you whether a vowel is long or short.

[RomanAria]

Oh god, not scanning. I hate scansion. Hate hate HATE it. We've been doing a good deal of it this semester, since we're doing the works of Ovid and Catullus and Vergil (in a very censored, school-friendly way, of course.) And... I hate it. Well, our lessons never taught us pronunciation so I can't logic out how words "should be" pronounced.

[Dedonus]

Oh god, not scanning. I hate scansion. Hate hate HATE it. We've been doing a good deal of it this semester, since we're doing the works of Ovid and Catullus and Vergil (in a very censored, school-friendly way, of course.) And... I hate it. Well, our lessons never taught us pronunciation so I can't logic out how words "should be" pronounced.

@RomanAria

Do you hate reading it out load or just writing down the scansion?

[RomanAria]

<Snipped quote by RomanAria>
Do you hate reading it out load or just writing down the scansion?

@Dedonus

Just trying to figure out the scansion and then read it in that way. I've learned to talk more-or-less conversationally, if I have scripted sentences to follow. But I can't chant it rhythmically like poetry is designed to be read out loud.

[Dedonus]

<Snipped quote by Dedonus>
Just trying to figure out the scansion and then read it in that way. I've learned to talk more-or-less conversationally, if I have scripted sentences to follow. But I can't chant it rhythmically like poetry is designed to be read out loud.

@RomanAria

One thing I found to be helpful was to think of the long's as quarter notes and the short's as eighth notes.

Some tips that might help reading Latin Dactylic Hexameter:
1) The last five syllables (i.e. the last two feet) will usually (but not always) be - ^ ^ | - x (where - = long and ^ = short and x = anything). In all Dactylic Hexameter (abbreviated DH because I don't want to write it out any more. lol), the last syllable can be anything, but you can usually say it long. This is helpful because even if you butchered the first four feet, knowing that the last two feet usually end like ( - ^ ^ | - x ) will make it sound nice at the end.

2) I know that this might not be the most accepted advice from other educators, but when I start writing down the scansion, I usually start with the fifth and sixth feet. As the above states, the last two feet should be pretty standard. While the fifth foot sometimes can be a spondee ( - - ), usually it goes like the above. After that, you can start filling it out. Sometimes, just by getting the fifth and sixth feet done, it gives me a confidence boost for completing it.

3) While translating, look out for where there are elisions in the text. If you can spot them, mark them! That way, you know that you don't have to pronounce a syllable when you are reading the text!

Let take the first line of Vergil's Aeneid.

Arma virumque cano, Troiae qui primus ab oris.

From tip 1 and 2, we know that primus ab oris is scanned like ( - ^ ^ | - x ). Now we already have two of the six feet done!

Now let move onto arma. The first 'a' is long because it is followed by two consonants (r and m) and because the first syllable of DH must be long. The second 'a' must be short because it is short by nature (neuter accusative plural) and it is followed by one consonant (v in virumque) So now we have ( - ^ . | .. | .. | .. | - ^ ^ | - x )

Now that we know that the last 'a' in arma is short, we can safely assume that the 'i' in virumque is short too. The next syllable is long because it is followed by two consonants (m and qu - note that qu counts as one consonant together). So now we have ( - ^ ^ | - . | .. | .. | - ^ ^ | - x )

Now we can do the same thing with the 'a' in cano as we did with the 'i' in virumque. Therefore the 'a' is short. The 'o' is long by nature because the first person present active indicative ending is a long 'o'. So now we have ( - ^ ^ | - ^ ^ | - . | .. | - ^ ^ | - x )

The next part is tricky. Unless you know the length of the 'o' in Troiae, it might be difficult to tell what it is. However, since diphthongs are usually long, we can conclude that Troiae has two long syllables (also note that the 'i' in Troiae is a consonant). Then, since we only have one more syllable left, we can conclude that it is a long as well.

So the final scansion is ( - ^ ^ | - ^ ^ | - - | - - | - ^ ^ | - x )

[rawkhawk64]

I remember scansion in Latin. It was a pain.

And y'all sound like experts compared to me, as it's been about three years since I did much of anything significant with Latin.

[RomanAria]

That's just Dedonus who's an expert, Rawkhawk.
I'm only in Latin 3... I daresay everyone else here understands it better than I do, since it seems that everyone else has had at least four years of it.

[Draconfound]

Did someone say scansion? *pops up* I always loved when we were asked to recite the Aeneid in scansion, it always felt and sounded so wonderful to recite it in such a poetic manner.

[rawkhawk64]

Ah, the Aeneid. I remember taking the entire of summer break between junior and senior years to translate it at home. Good thing I did, because we were studying it in in Latin class that year, and the only thing I really had to put effort toward was an essay on the Aeneid. Good epic.

[Draconfound]

I'm having a little trouble with the details of my CS at the moment, but I will post it as soon as it's coherent