[OOC] Civilization - New Lands, New Glory

[Voltus_Ventus]

We discovered stone axes...

[Willy Vereb]

BTW, Food and better houses increase population growth? Man, I read most of the IC but it seems I didn't put sufficient attention to the details. This RP really works closer to something like a turn-based strategy game than I originally gave credit for.
I must say I really hate when arbitrary gameplay limitations are enforced against my creativity. This is my personal view for forum RPs and for this reason I'm now considering to drop out.

No, this isn't a bad game at all. Seriously, I love a lot of things in it. Props to the whole set-up and the GM's efforts in general. But as I said for forum RPs narrative should be the king and I can already see the series of clashes and disappointments I'd experience with my nation here. This doesn't mean the GM does something wrong. This is just my own personal opinion.
So to prevent problems and future frustration I think I'll leave this RP.
Too bad, because as Chenzor can attest from my PMs I have plenty of enthusiasm to NRP with this race.
But I feel I'll never be able to accomplish what I want this way.
This might be a bit quick decision of me so I could reconsider this.

[Chenzor]

@Chenzor

I kind of feel like I'm being annoying, but I still need to know how this went:

<Snipped quote>

Mainly because I need a lot of lumber and iron to make boats and find Voltus.

@Cyclone

DAMNIT. I am a blind man. I have now edited to include these two things. I'm sorry for missing it several times, you're not annoying at the least!

@ChenzorUm, what? How's it difficult to carry out any of these actions?
Seriously, this smells like a deliberate artifice just to prevent people to work on more things at once.
Fishing? 20 people at best.
Farmwork? 5-20 people
Hunting and gathering? Variable on demand
Scouting? 5-15 people
Developing new springs? 5 people at best
City guard? 15-25 people
The total count won't even approach 100. I have more than 150 able bodied adults to do anything else.
Mining, processing metals, building my city and generally anything else.

I thought this is a roleplaying game based on narrative. This sounds like deliberate gameplay limitations to me.
Oh well, my nation technically just made its roots. So it having null actions for now can make sense.
But next time I'll be listing a similar or even longer list of actions. 300 people may be overall small but nowhere small enough to treat them like they were just a single character. Multi-tasking is a matter of course.

@Willy Vereb

You have a point. It's sort of a gameplay 'limitation' and Kaiser is right in that he mentions this RP works sort of like the Civilization games. They're turn based, and while you -can- do several things at once it's sometimes not possible. Later on in the game, As your civilization has grown, THEN you can probably do several tasks without worrying about it, but this is your FIRST TURN. You shouldn't expect to improve EVERYTHING at the very first turn.

<Snipped quote by KaiserAuto>Yeah, my nation eventually building a city in less tunrs than you can make sense.
My people are part of a well-planned journey to colonize a new world instead of being just plain refugees.
That and as you'll later find out my nation specializes in crafting. They have a pretty good technological aptitude.

<Snipped quote by KaiserAuto>I feel that forcing the RP to play out like a videogame is even more selfish.
This is an actual fluid story which shouldn't be inhibited by gameplay limitations.
That and unlike Civilization, the "turns" don't last for a few minutes but days.
Add up the fact that most roleplays go cold after a few or several months and you have an issue.
Seriously, forcing the mechanics of a whole different kind of game is the worst thing you can ever do.

You won't play Call of Duty according to Dungeons&Dragons rulebooks. You can try but that no longer will be an FPS.

@Willy Vereb

Aye, you will construct your city faster than Kaiser did. Also because you've joined much later.
I completely understand your problem with this, but it is in no way meant to be a "videogame limitation". I feel like if you've had read up a bit on the IC and OOC you probably would've noticed this from the start.

See the quote below by Voltus_Ventus. He just discovered stone axes. We're doing this a few actions at a time. I would've allowed you to make 2-3 actions at the same time if you had a good post to back it up, but normally it's 1 turn, 1 action plus the actions that the last turn may force you to make. For example, the orcs of Spiregull now stand before three choices. While it would make sense that he CAN do them all at the same time, he has to do one of them FIRST.
I hope you get what I mean.

Lastly, the comparison to CoD and DnD is ridiculous and doesn't help to further your point.

We discovered stone axes...

@Voltus_Ventus

BTW, Food and better houses increase population growth? Man, I read most of the IC but it seems I didn't put sufficient attention to the details. This RP really works closer to something like a turn-based strategy game than I originally gave credit for.
I must say I really hate when arbitrary gameplay limitations are enforced against my creativity. This is my personal view for forum RPs and for this reason I'm now considering to drop out.

No, this isn't a bad game at all. Seriously, I love a lot of things in it. Props to the whole set-up and the GM's efforts in general. But as I said for forum RPs narrative should be the king and I can already see the series of clashes and disappointments I'd experience with my nation here. This doesn't mean the GM does something wrong. This is just my own personal opinion.
So to prevent problems and future frustration I think I'll leave this RP.
Too bad, because as Chenzor can attest from my PMs I have plenty of enthusiasm to NRP with this race.
But I feel I'll never be able to accomplish what I want this way.
This might be a bit quick decision of me so I could reconsider this.

@Willy Vereb

It's sad to see you go, but I would understand if your interest fades after this little 'revelation'. You truly did seem enthusiastic about this RP.
My suggestion is that you either leave now, we all shake hands and meet again someday somewhere else, or you stick with us for a while and you'll notice that after you've reached a few turns, you will be able to do more actions at one turn as your tech, population and so on has advanced.

The choice is yours. Whatever you chose, I respect it.

[Cyclone]

@Willy Vereb

I think you should stay. Sure, a lot of emphasis is on what you do with your turns, but there is still plenty of room for narrative to explain why/how your people do what they do. And if you look at my posts I'm pretty guilty of doing a lot of stuff in one turn; really I view the choices like Improve Food as focuses rather than individual actions. What I'm getting at is that in my opinion the turn system only impedes narrative if you allow it to; I've been able to do basically everything I've wanted without being hindered by it.

And Chenzor can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that it's about 100% narrative when two players decide to interact with each other. As in we could actually write out what happens in a battle between us rather than say what we're going to try to do and then have Chenzor write out the results.

[Voltus_Ventus]

Bird things!

[KaiserAuto]

Pew pew

[Voltus_Ventus]

My eye! You shot my eye!

[Willy Vereb]

Meh, my decision seemed to be hasty.

So long I won't be forced to do metagaming choices and the actions I decide are closer to a focus than literally everything meaningful my nation does, I'm still game.
I don't feel the "turns" are actual gameplay like limitations. It just a measure to give a GM time to respond to everything and generally to keep time consistent in an RP with so many different plotlines.

So yeah, sorry if I caused some drama here. I'll be continuing with this game for now.

[Chenzor]

@Willy Vereb

I think you should stay. Sure, a lot of emphasis is on what you do with your turns, but there is still plenty of room for narrative to explain why/how your people do what they do. And if you look at my posts I'm pretty guilty of doing a lot of stuff in one turn; really I view the choices like Improve Food as focuses rather than individual actions. What I'm getting at is that in my opinion the turn system only impedes narrative if you allow it to; I've been able to do basically everything I've wanted without being hindered by it.

And Chenzor can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that it's about 100% narrative when two players decide to interact with each other. As in we could actually write out what happens in a battle between us rather than say what we're going to try to do and then have Chenzor write out the results.

@Cyclone

You are correct! I don't want to dictate what happens and what doesn't in battle - I'll just place out flags on the map where your armies are and you will decide with each other what happens and eventually who wins and who loses. Just remember the rule: don't kill a player off completely unless he/she gives his/her consent!
I'm confident you guys will work things out if problems arise, either through PM or here in the OOC.

Meh, my decision seemed to be hasty.

So long I won't be forced to do metagaming choices and the actions I decide are closer to a focus than literally everything meaningful my nation does, I'm still game.
I don't feel the "turns" are actual gameplay like limitations. It just a measure to give a GM time to respond to everything and generally to keep time consistent in an RP with so many different plotlines.

So yeah, sorry if I caused some drama here. I'll be continuing with this game for now.

@Willy Vereb

No harm done! I'm glad you decided to stay. If you feel later on that this wasn't for you then I wont hold it against you if you decide to leave.
For now, welcome to CIV!

[Chenzor]

@Voltus_Ventus While I enjoyed your post and the introduction of the bird-people, I'd really like it if you ran the idea through me first before posting it in the IC. This way we can stay clear of clashing ideas, such as Non-player Nations already being planned in an area.

[Voltus_Ventus]

@Voltus_Ventus While I enjoyed your post and the introduction of the bird-people, I'd really like it if you ran the idea through me first before posting it in the IC. This way we can stay clear of clashing ideas, such as Non-player Nations already being planned in an area.

@Chenzor

Apologies sir, I can rewrite it if it would mean less inconvenience to you.

[barkmeat2]

What the fuck is going on.

<Snipped quote by KaiserAuto>Yeah, my nation eventually building a city in less tunrs than you can make sense.
My people are part of a well-planned journey to colonize a new world instead of being just plain refugees.
That and as you'll later find out my nation specializes in crafting. They have a pretty good technological aptitude.

<Snipped quote by KaiserAuto>I feel that forcing the RP to play out like a videogame is even more selfish.
This is an actual fluid story which shouldn't be inhibited by gameplay limitations.
That and unlike Civilization, the "turns" don't last for a few minutes but days.
Add up the fact that most roleplays go cold after a few or several months and you have an issue.
Seriously, forcing the mechanics of a whole different kind of game is the worst thing you can ever do.

You won't play Call of Duty according to Dungeons&Dragons rulebooks. You can try but that no longer will be an FPS.

@Willy Vereb

I'm all for a new player, and you having your dwarfs do what they do is fine, but hating on the system as it is now, is trouble. Kaiser didn't spend 7 turns just copy pasting "build city" in each post, we're allowed to continue our stories and write and take other actions as we want. Granted, actions whilst city building are nerfed as allocation of labor and all that, but his story continues.

The system has worked as is, and Chenzor is a trooper for keeping up with 9+ people. If anything this makes the Nation RP function as a sort of tabletop RP, where resources and time management determine your civ stats, so yeh the turn system is necessary.

[Chenzor]

I thought you were all about bananas and grapes but you do know what to say when the time comes!

[barkmeat2]

I thought you were all about bananas and grapes but you do know what to say when the time comes!

@Chenzor

Ehhh? I didn't include food in my shit-posting, fuck I'm losing it.

PS grapes are the Devil, don't associate that trash with me.

[Cyclone]

So @Zendrelax, are you going to try to find me this turn? I'm curious about how this is going to go down

Actually one of the two lumberjack parties would have went north and followed the coast right about to where your scouts are now. You could encounter the lumberjacks out in the wilderness, or just miss them and head over to Njor.

[Chenzor]

<Snipped quote by Chenzor>

Ehhh? I didn't include food in my shit-posting, fuck I'm losing it.

PS grapes are the Devil, don't associate that trash with me.

@barkmeat2

K no grapes gotcha

So @Zendrelax, are you going to try to find me this turn? I'm curious about how this is going to go down

Actually one of the two lumberjack parties would have went north and followed the coast right about to where your scouts are now. You could encounter the lumberjacks out in the wilderness, or just miss them and head over to Njor.

@Cyclone

Go for it brothas!

<Snipped quote by Chenzor>

Apologies sir, I can rewrite it if it would mean less inconvenience to you.

@Voltus_Ventus

No, no! Not at all! Just run it by me next time aight? :D

[Cyclone]

@Chenzor

If he does encounter me then I can respond with my lumberjacks/villagers without waiting for next turn, right?

[Zendrelax]

So @Zendrelax, are you going to try to find me this turn? I'm curious about how this is going to go down

Actually one of the two lumberjack parties would have went north and followed the coast right about to where your scouts are now. You could encounter the lumberjacks out in the wilderness, or just miss them and head over to Njor.

@Cyclone

I'm all for seeing how your people react to giant, blue skraelings.

[Cyclone]

@Zendrelax

I eagerly await your post

[Chenzor]

@Chenzor

If he does encounter me then I can respond with my lumberjacks/villagers without waiting for next turn, right?

@Cyclone

I'll allow it! Roleplaying shouldn't be hindered by turns. Additionally, if you want to keep things secret, you can also discuss things in PM ;)