[OOC] Elder Scrolls: Terror of the Padomaic

[Lucius Cypher]

EliteCommander said
If that is the case, you have never played Morrowind. It's quite valuable in that game. You can make a lot of profit selling it, though the only people who will buy it are Thieves guild vendors, and Khajiit vendors.

I've played Morrowind. It's been a while though... I do know it's more expensive there though due to the illegal nature of Skooma actually being upheld. Can't do business with anyone but the Thieves Guild if you're carrying Skooma or Moon Sugar. Other games just seem to penalize you for taking skooma mostly because you have to steal it, not because it's illegal.

But anyways, we're going to need a Thieves Guild contact or something to turn a profit with this.

[The New Yorker]

Lucius Cypher said
Before long Malakaus and his crew returned to their vessel. Some of the materials have been delivered and need either Sarel or Malakaus to oversee the construction. Seeing that he was the only officer there, he took it upon himself to design the ship.

Actually, as I noted in my post, Sarel is at the ship. And, considering it took Malakaus a while to think Sarel was probably already overseeing the main construction happening on the outside of the ship when he approached. Besides, it is Sarel's job to maintain the ship in working order, Malakaus is in charge of weapons and things of that nature.

Please don't step on my toes here.

[Lucius Cypher]

I made my edits.

[The New Yorker]

Lucius Cypher said
I made my edits.

tense switches and all...

[Lucius Cypher]

Malakaus isn't aware that Sarel is present. As far as he knows, Sarel and Serge should still be in the city, doing whatever business it was he told Malakaus they'd be doing. Malakaus doesn't mind doing his work, so long as it means that he gets to be in control. If you'd like Sarel to resume his job, just have him find Malakaus and I can have him find something else to do. Probably involving fisticuffs. Do you think they'd have schools of martial arts like Goutfang, Whispering Fang and Rawlith Khaj in Khenarthi's Roost?

[The New Yorker]

Lucius Cypher said
Malakaus isn't aware that Sarel is present. As far as he knows, Sarel and Serge should still be in the city, doing whatever business it was he told Malakaus they'd be doing. Malakaus doesn't mind doing his work, so long as it means that he gets to be in control. If you'd like Sarel to resume his job, just have him find Malakaus and I can have him find something else to do. Probably involving fisticuffs. Do you think they'd have schools of martial arts like Goutfang, Whispering Fang and Rawlith Khaj in Khenarthi's Roost?

Sarel is on the docks when Malakaus arrives, checking the materials and ordering constructions. I haven't written it yet, but that's what's happening. So Malakaus does know Sarel is there, and he knows that he's handling the hull improvements, that's his job.

There may be like covenants or something on the island somewhere, but I don't really think Malakaus is contented enough to learn shit like that. Maybe he should stick to hitting people with clubs or something.

[Lucius Cypher]

Oh, touchy. Ever read Mace Etiquette? Turns out things aren't so simple as hitting people with sticks. Learning the difference is what separates brutes with weapons and masters with tools.

[The New Yorker]

Lucius Cypher said
Oh, touchy. Ever read ? Turns out things aren't so simple as hitting people with sticks. Learning the difference is what separates brutes with weapons and masters with tools.

Wait, showing that someone found a way to implement tactics and logic into hitting people with spiky sticks makes it suddenly far more sophisticated?

Are you going to delude yourself that an Orcs fighting style is as artful and demanding as an Imperial with a spatha or an Altmer with a Katana, not to mention a Dark Elf and his magics? It's literally "get mad hit things". At least, that's what you've portrayed.

[Lucius Cypher]

What I've portrayed isn't what reflects orcs as a whole. And I wouldn't say that Malakaus is the best representation of what orc culture is like; he doesn't even want to involve himself in the affairs of his stronghold, which would have than gave him legitimate reasons to represent orcs. Right now he represents himself, regardless of what you perceive his race to be. Malakaus isn't even the greatest at what he does, he just happened to be better than most of the others he's fought. Hence why he would want to learn Khajit Martial Arts; expand his knowledge of combat and how to harm others.

And besides, when has he actually "Get mad hit things" in a fight? Sure, he's gotten mad and hit his underlings for being bad at their jobs, but in a fight he's a bit more clear-headed than that. Reckless maybe, but a Shield Charge and 67% damage immunity in tight quarters is much more useful than you might think, specially if your enemies have been grouped together due to said tight quarters. Things are only as simple as we make them, New Yorker. Emotions cloud judgement and our range of options. Malakaus only allows himself to rage when there's only one option he wants.

[EliteCommander]

Fighting with blunt weapons is actually rather demanding both in strength and tactics. Were it simple, there would be no difference between masters, and the average fighter. Blunt weapons play a different role to blades and require entirely different tactics. The greatest role they serve is in taking on armor. Swords are better for flesh.

[EliteCommander]

Lucius Cypher said
What I've portrayed isn't what reflects orcs as a whole. And I wouldn't say that Malakaus is the best representation of what orc culture is like; he doesn't even want to involve himself in the affairs of his stronghold, which would have than gave him legitimate reasons to represent orcs. Right now he represents himself, regardless of what you perceive his race to be. Malakaus isn't even the greatest at what he does, he just happened to be better than most of the others he's fought. Hence why he would want to learn Khajit Martial Arts; expand his knowledge of combat and how to harm others.And besides, when has he actually "Get mad hit things" in a fight? Sure, he's gotten mad and hit his underlings for being bad at their jobs, but in a fight he's a bit more clear-headed than that. Reckless maybe, but a Shield Charge and 67% damage immunity in tight quarters is much more useful than you might think, specially if your enemies have been grouped together due to said tight quarters. Things are only as simple as we make them, New Yorker. Emotions cloud judgement and our range of options. Malakaus only allows himself to rage when there's only one option he wants.

There is no such thing as a percentage damage resist, not in the RP. A good set of heavy armor will make bladed weapons almost useless. The only way they can be used against heavy armor is stabbing attacks at joints. There are a few gaps in armor around joints that can be exploited, but it would be foolish to say that they are easy to hit. If there are two opponents of comparable skill, one is using heavy armor, and the other is using a blade (for this situation, no other factors, such as magic, are taken into account), the one in armor is very likely to win.

Now, blunt weapons, on the other hand, are very effective against armor. The plate only provides marginal cushioning for the blows, so getting hit by a mace is almost the same as getting hit by it without armor.

[Lucius Cypher]

I wouldn't quite say that, Commander. Maces are certainly more useful against armor if because the physical trauma of a blunt blow is not as easily deflected or cushioned as a blade. But to say that "getting hit by a mace is almost the same as getting hit by it without armor" is misleading. At the very least, you're armor is less likely to protect you from the full blow of a mace, but you're not much better if you get hit with the full force of a mace without armor either. Dodging can be done with or without armor if being without armor is suppose to be taken in that regard as well, but at least when you're in armor you also have the option to simply take the blow.

[The New Yorker]

Lucius Cypher said
What I've portrayed isn't what reflects orcs as a whole. And I wouldn't say that Malakaus is the best representation of what orc culture is like; he doesn't even want to involve himself in the affairs of his stronghold, which would have than gave him legitimate reasons to represent orcs. Right now he represents himself, regardless of what you perceive his race to be. Malakaus isn't even the greatest at what he does, he just happened to be better than most of the others he's fought. Hence why he would want to learn Khajit Martial Arts; expand his knowledge of combat and how to harm others.[b]And besides, when has he actually "Get mad hit things" in a fight? Sure, he's gotten mad and hit his underlings for being bad at their jobs, but in a fight he's a bit more clear-headed than that. Reckless maybe, but a Shield Charge and 67% damage immunity in tight quarters is much more useful than you might think, specially if your enemies have been grouped together due to said tight quarters. Things are only as simple as we make them, New Yorker. Emotions cloud judgement and our range of options. Malakaus only allows himself to rage when there's only one he wants.

lol

Okay, I'm going to give you a really dispassionate response and then head on down the road. Orcs are reknowned for their brutish strength, this is reflected in their armoring processes. I believe the reason people fear Orcs so much is for their large size and ability to go berserk. The reason why there have hardly ever been consolidated states is because they're mostly hot headed a brash. Despite what you want to delude yourself of, which you continually do, Malakaus is not an exception, he is the rule. The exception is the Orc king who managed to bring Orsinium together and make a treaty with the Bretons. But that all disolved because of infighting and a weakened base. Orcs are vicious, that's why there can never be too many of them in one tribe at a time, and why only one male can breed at a time, like apes.

I'm not simplifying anything, I'm using historical facts, facts within the lore, and logic to reach my conclusions, and they're all transparent. You're the one who makes all these assumptions.

I really don't want to argue anymore after this.

EC, I'll see about getting a post up tonight. Hopefully you'll be able to post by then.

EDIT:

EliteCommander said
There is no such thing as a percentage damage resist, not in the RP. A good set of heavy armor will make bladed weapons almost useless. The only way they can be used against heavy armor is stabbing attacks at joints. There are a few gaps in armor around joints that can be exploited, but it would be foolish to say that they are easy to hit. If there are two opponents of comparable skill, one is using heavy armor, and the other is using a blade (for this situation, no other factors, such as magic, are taken into account), the one in armor is very likely to win. Now, blunt weapons, on the other hand, are very effective against armor. The plate only provides marginal cushioning for the blows, so getting hit by a mace is almost the same as getting hit by it without armor.

And that.

[The New Yorker]

EliteCommander said
Fighting with blunt weapons is actually rather demanding both in strength and tactics. Were it simple, there would be no difference between masters, and the average fighter. Blunt weapons play a different role to blades and require entirely different tactics. The greatest role they serve is in taking on armor. Swords are better for flesh.

true, but the necessary skill sets for swords are harder to develop than skill sets for maces.

Precision and grace are much more demanding that momentum and timing. You can learn the latter two over time and with experience. If you don't have the former, you just don't have it. (and no, I don't have time to clarify and back-up that statement but I think you can figure it out by yourself)

[EliteCommander]

Lucius Cypher said
I wouldn't quite say that, Commander. Maces are certainly more useful against armor if because the physical trauma of a blunt blow is not as easily deflected or cushioned as a blade. But to say that "getting hit by a mace is almost the same as getting hit by it without armor" is misleading. At the very least, you're armor is less likely to protect you from the full blow of a mace, but you're not much better if you get hit with the full force of a mace without armor either. Dodging can be done with or without armor if being without armor is suppose to be taken in that regard as well, but at least when you're in armor you also have the option to simply take the blow.

It is true that armor gives you the ability to deflect the momentum of the blow more easily, but a solid hit will be basically as bad as if you did not have the armor.

[Legion X51]

EliteCommander said
Now, blunt weapons, on the other hand, are very effective against armor. The plate only provides marginal cushioning for the blows, so getting hit by a mace is almost the same as getting hit by it without armor.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no!

The point of plate armour is not just to strut about in big fancy suits of heavy metal sheeting. Plate armour, as in a proper suit of plate armour, will deflect the blow from a mace or warhammer quite well, but it's not the 'plate' that deflects the blow, it's the padded gambeson and leggings, as well as things such as the mail hauberk that you wear 'beneath' the armour that protects you from a mace, club, warhammer or any other blunt instrument of war. Arguing that being in or being out of plate armour, when you're being hit by a mace, doesn't make a difference is folly. You would be much, much safer and much better able to continue fighting if you were in plate armour if you were hit by a mace. In fact, I would argue that a sufficiently-crafted set of plate armour (styled in the form of Greenwich armour, Gothic or Maximilian) would be able to shrug off blows from maces or hammers without too much of an issue - after all, there are numerous examples of Gothic and Maximilian plate being able to deflect musket bullets from as close as 20 yards away.

[Lucius Cypher]

EliteCommander said
It is true that armor gives you the ability to deflect the momentum of the blow more easily, but a solid hit will be basically as bad as if you did not have the armor.

That's why you has to learn how to use Heavy Armor as well. Standing there and letting it take the hits is a fairly novice strategy; it should be used as insurance that when you do get hit, it won't be as worse as say, fighting in only harden leather.

[EliteCommander]

Legion X51 said
No, no, no, no, no, no, no!The point of plate armour is not just to strut about in big fancy suits of heavy metal sheeting. Plate armour, as in a proper suit of plate armour, will deflect the blow from a mace or warhammer quite well, but it's not the 'plate' that deflects the blow, it's the padded gambeson and leggings, as well as things such as the mail hauberk that you wear 'beneath' the armour that protects you from a mace, club, warhammer or any other blunt instrument of war. Arguing that being in or being out of plate armour, when you're being hit by a mace, doesn't make a difference is folly. You would be much, much safer and much better able to continue fighting if you were in plate armour if you were hit by a mace. In fact, I would argue that a sufficiently-crafted set of plate armour (styled in the form of Greenwich armour, Gothic or Maximilian) would be able to shrug off blows from maces or hammers without too much of an issue - after all, there are numerous examples of Gothic and Maximilian plate being able to deflect musket bullets from as close as 20 yards away.

That just isn't true, at least not for the majority of cases. Perhaps it is possible for an expensive, specialized suit to be made specifically for the purpose of mitigating blunt damage, but one of the most attractive uses of maces and other blunt weapons was their effectiveness against armor. They could damage the wearer, thick armor, or both in a much more direct way than blades ever could.

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_%28club%29#European_Middle_Ages

(Edit: that being said, if you're going to get hit, having the armor is better than not having it)

[Lucius Cypher]

It's all on the design. Most plate armor was designed to deflect blows and prevent the opponent to land a "Clean Hit". Swords had to be designed for heavy chopping or stabbing because trying to cut the armor was a practice in futility. Some plate armor also used less metal because they also had to keep in mind logistics; creating solid thick armor was expensive and not practical when you need to armor a hundred knights. Instead the design when from "Too thick to break" to "Too angular to make a solid blow". A lot of people dismiss bucklers for being small shields, but they're one of the more advance ones due to this understanding.

[EliteCommander]

Indeed. It is certainly not impossible to create a set of armor capable of handling impacts like that, but it would be impractical. You can't make it for everyone, it was already expensive enough to make the armor they had, and it would be heavier to carry around with the extra padding. Deflecting blows makes more sense.