Ermine

Pathfinder - Rise of the Runelords

@Lucius Cypher 3rd Party content, in case I make a kitsune: Allowed?
Natural Finesse: Sophisticated kitsune hone graceful and precise movements at the expense of their skill with their natural attacks. The kitsune gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat at 1st level. This racial trait replaces natural weapons.

Also, new kitsune fighter sheet I'm working on and likely to use has notes on what I'd do if you allowed Martial Training.

Although the kitsune thing may change to human-leaning tiefling with racial heritage (kitsune) and the trait I want from kitsune that I'm basing this whole fighter concept on. >.>

Pathfinder - Rise of the Runelords

I knew I forgot something!
Or...not really forgot, but...forgot.

But what's your opinion on the Martial Training feat line for Cursed Razor? Do you think it'll hold everyone else back somehow? Or make it necessary to change too much?

Also, debating dropping the Underground Chemist thing. I mean, I still kinda want it for the ability to take (specific) alchemist discoveries (from a short list, but they're all good), but...it's really eating up my rogue talent slots >< (Bomber, Bomber's Discovery...not much, really, but it's still stuff I'm only taking because the archetype encourages it and not taking them would mean I was basically wasting the potential of the archetype at low levels). That, and it was a holdover from the campaign this character was originally made for, where she was stalking the alchemist. >.> I hadn't even finished her before scrapping her for a class exclusive to that campaign (a homebrew totemist conversion -purr-).

Unsure if I'll just drop it, take a different archetype, keep it, or just give in and play vivisectionist alchemist (because I like to pretend they're more adorable, and overall it's a better combat rogue), yet. For all we know, I'll have a fighter by the end of this.

Hello, I'm Argus

You are not in nearly enough yellow to be my king. Wander all you like, though, k? ^~^ Wandering is okay. Just...kinda...stay in the area. We don't want you to get lost. There are some dangerous places outside this neighborhood.

Pathfinder - Rise of the Runelords

@Lucius Cypher Makes sense it sounds like it; it's actually mentioned in there because DSP ported it to PF as Path of War. And since we don't have a wizard, I don't see the point in preventing anyone from taking something that's not even as good as one. Though I wouldn't, like they did, compare it to anime so much as video games, since it's basically identical to how skills work in Dragon Age for the warrior and rogue, what with there being their regular attack as normal, and then skills they can use. Yes, it's more "powerful" and versatile than base martial classes, but they're all basically just a weak (because magic is still stronger) magus with thematic differences that attempt to cover the weaknesses. It doesn't invalidate the core and base melee classes any more than having a wizard or sorcerer in the party does.

What is Democ- Err...Martial Training?

Martial Training is just "pick one discipline, get a tiny number of things from it. Take this six times and hey, you used six feats to get a lesser version of something archetypes have already but significantly worse." It's the Eldritch Heritage equivalent, only not as powerful, and you have to take it more times to get anywhere close, with around the same requirements (16-17 in whatever ability score minimum, and either take a useless skill X times (depending which level of the feat it is) or use your BAB (which actually makes fighters worthwhile)).

Hider

How would I use it?]IF I WENT WITH IT, here's a summary of what I'd do at each level (because I plan this all out way ahead; I have most of this character's future already planned, with or without this, and note that I do not have animus to augment these, so what I get is the base ability only, and the listed initiator level is assuming Int doesn't increase):

Martial Training I (Level 3, assuming I have 3 ranks of Knowledge (Martial) by then. Initiator level 3.):
Choose Elemental Flux discipline, get Spellcraft as a class skill, and use Intelligence as the initiation modifier (used in several abilities, but also, with this feat, affects your initiator level, which is 1/2 level + Init Mod, with a maximum of your current level. So with my Int of 18, the +4 bonus means at level 20, I'll count as level 14 (and until level 8, initiator level = level)). I gain the ability to switch between active elements (there's a monk archetype from Paizo that does this, too. They're pretty badass) with elemental flux (standard action to switch elements), which for this discipline affects my damage type and has different effects for different maneuvers and stances (swift action to enter a stance, and they work like styles, but have to take a feat to use both a stance and a style, and can never be in more than once stance at a time obviously). I can recover maneuvers by spending a standard action to recover one maneuver (all martial initiator classes can do this, but they also have much more useful methods to recover a lot more).
I'd take Fluctuation Movements and Variable Flux.
At this level, I can only ready one of my two maneuvers (meaning either spending 10 minutes to switch to the other one being readied, or a standard action to recover each time I use whichever one I have readied).

Martial Training II (Level 5. Initiator level 5.):
I'd take Elemental Strike, Arcane Shield, and Elemental Nimbus.
At this level, I can now ready two of my four maneuvers.

Martial Training III (Level 7. Initiator level 7.):
Lance of Power and Elemental Flux Stance.
I wouldn't trade any of my maneuvers at this level (I like the level 1 ones better than the level 2 ones).
At this level, I can ready three of my five maneuvers.

Martial Training IV (Level 9. Initiator Level 8.):
Eldritch Consumption and Assay Resistance.
At this level, I can ready four of my seven maneuvers.

Martial Training V (Level 11. Initiator Level 9.):
Elemental Absorption and Enter the Vortex (Note that I can't use maneuvers with the attack this stance lets me use).
I would replace Variable Flux with Arcane Torrent.
At this level, I can ready five of my eight maneuvers.

Martial Training VI (Level 13. Initiator Level 10.):
At this point, I do not qualify for the levels of maneuvers this grants (well, the maximum levels, anyway) without increasing my Intelligence on two of levels 4, 8, and 12. Without doing so, I wouldn't take this level of the feat. I probably still won't take it because more than half my feats is kinda a silly use, ja?

Some other stuff

If I don't go with everything I already have planned for the character, may variant multiclass something AND do Martial Training. So...no feats, but plenty of weak class features I could probably have better versions of just by doing regular multiclass.

Even without VMC'ing, it would make me the group magus, basically. Although while I was doing this, my brain was like "five levels of this is just variant multiclass, if I did it at levels 3, 7, 11, 15, and 19." Also, looking over what I have, there are some feats I already have that I don't want to get rid of. May only do 4 levels of it, and use BAB instead of the skill (meaning minimum levels of 4, 7, 10, 12, 15, and 18, respectively, for the six feats, and with them being feats, that's 5, 7, 11, 13, 15, and 19, and may take them later than that)

Some EXTRA stuff edited in (PAY ATTENTION~ This is more important!)

I hadn't really looked at higher levels of Elemental Flux. Based on what I saw though, I will concede that that particular one may be too powerful. Therefore, I will go with Cursed Razor discipline if I do it, in which case (listing planned level to take the feats and what effective Initiator Level my character will be without the Intelligence increases):

Martial Training I (Level 5, IL 5)
-Spellcraft (Int). Same as Elemental Flux in that regard. No active element (surprise~ ^~^). Discipline weapons (which I forgot to mention in the other thing, and they give +2 to DCs for maneuvers that require them) are heavy blades, light blades, and spears. Feat gives 2 maneuvers, for which I would choose Luck Shifting and Stutter Strike. I would primarily ready Stutter Strike.

Martial Training II (Level 7, IL 7)
-Feat gives 2 maneuvers and a stance, both up to level 2 (note: there are no level 2 stances in any discipline. Just found that amusing). I plan on taking Mockery and Word of Retribution for maneuvers (and keep stutter strike and word of retribution readied), and for stance: Aura of Misfortune (to help everyone else out).

Martial Training III (Level 13, IL 10)
-Feat gives a maneuver and a stance of up to 3rd level, and the option to switch out any maneuver for another maneuver of up to level 2. I would take Dogpile Strike and Touch of the Witch (-gasp-, NOT the third level one?! No. Because the third level one does nothing for me with only one curse strike). I would switch out Luck Shifting for Bad Karma. From here on, I would prepare Dogpile Strike, Mockery, and Word of Retribution, and primarily be in Touch of the Witch stance.

Martial Training IV (Level 15, IL 11)
-Feat gives two maneuvers of up to 4th level. I would take Persecution and Warlock's Stride. From here on, Aura of Misfortune for stance. Maneuvers prepared most of the time will be the same as before, plus Warlock's Stride.

Martial Training V (Level 17, IL 12)
-Feat gives two maneuvers, or one maneuver and one stance, of up to 5th level, and gives the option to switch out any maneuver for a maneuver of up to 4th level. I would take Aura of Shared Misery (the third level stance I skipped before) and Shadow Pin. Again, same as before for main maneuvers readied but with Shadow Pin. I would use the new stance primarily (but occasionally switch it out for the others, MAYBE).

Martial Training VI (Level 19, IL 13)
-Feat gives two maneuvers, or one maneuver and one stance, of up to 6th level, and gives the option to switch out any maneuver for a maneuver of up to 5th level. I would take Eye for an Eye and Oathbreaker's Aura stance. I'd not switch out maneuvers. From now own, the readied maneuvers would again be the same, but with Eye for an Eye, and would likely stay with Oathbreaker's Aura.

That last stance in Elemental Flux pretty much killed it for me. ^//^

Plus, character of choice:
Anne Deverin, Human, Rogue, mixes chemicals, tries to emulate what Ciara does, has no idea whatsoever what Ciara does.

Pathfinder - Rise of the Runelords

Saved me from having to find it again.
Dunno if I'll do that. May roll EVERY aspect of my character. That'd be fun. Ish. Assuming I rolled something interesting.

@Lucius Cypher Ooh. What about the Martial Training feat line? It's also Path of War and therefore third party, but it's ONE discipline vs a full class with 4-7 disciplines, only goes up to level 6 maneuvers and stances, and not a lot of them at all. Not that it would matter now, with first level characters, since I couldn't take it until level 3 at the earliest (which would, in turn, give you plenty of time to learn about it, but I'd at least want a tentative answer ("I'll consider allowing it" vs "AW HELL NAW") since it influences my weapon choice). And that's assuming I end up with the stats to even be able to get the higher levels of it. (And if it makes a difference, I'd probably go Elemental Flux if that makes a difference to you)

(legitimate curiosity, since it's not a huge thing, any more than variant multiclassing is)

Edit: Either yes or no (obviously preferably yes), I think I've found a character I'll use. I just have to make some minor adjustments since this one was made for a campaign and never got used. Never actually got finished. I hope you don't mind piecemeal armor...

@Ermine

@Lucius Cypher There's a question in here. I just edited it in too late. I'd expected it to be shorter.
I'm almost done with the character. Just need traits, a name, and a pic. Human underground chemist archetype unchained rogue. Who is obsessed with our fun-loving nun, but isn't exactly sure what she does.

Edit: Our paladin's in this thread. The adorableness of aasimar paladins draws me in (in a sexy way)

Pathfinder - Rise of the Runelords

Saved me from having to find it again.
Dunno if I'll do that. May roll EVERY aspect of my character. That'd be fun. Ish. Assuming I rolled something interesting.

@Lucius Cypher Ooh. What about the Martial Training feat line? It's also Path of War and therefore third party, but it's ONE discipline vs a full class with 4-7 disciplines, only goes up to level 6 maneuvers and stances, and not a lot of them at all. Not that it would matter now, with first level characters, since I couldn't take it until level 3 at the earliest (which would, in turn, give you plenty of time to learn about it, but I'd at least want a tentative answer ("I'll consider allowing it" vs "AW HELL NAW") since it influences my weapon choice). And that's assuming I end up with the stats to even be able to get the higher levels of it. (And if it makes a difference, I'd probably go Elemental Flux if that makes a difference to you)

(legitimate curiosity, since it's not a huge thing, any more than variant multiclassing is)

Edit: Either yes or no (obviously preferably yes), I think I've found a character I'll use. I just have to make some minor adjustments since this one was made for a campaign and never got used. Never actually got finished. I hope you don't mind piecemeal armor...

Pathfinder - Rise of the Runelords

Okay. Won't use any Paizo class that isn't way too powerful compared to the other classes we have.
So no mages except maybe witch or druid, the former of which is boring and the latter is...not even remotely interesting to me anymore.
Hmm...

Pathfinder - Rise of the Runelords

When I use third party stuff, I share it first (even if I make a character, which is usually more sample of how I'd use it because I tend to go through characters super fast before starting any game. It's how I learn rules. Which is why I have no idea how to play GURPS at all...what game uses friggin' microjoules as a unit?). Notice I asked for permission and offered all the materials I used. AND was worried about moral grey areas in terms of power. I'm uncomfortable with power in general. ^//^

@Lucius Cypher If I go tiefling and take a variant ability (the rolled thing) to replace spell-like abilities, should I roll on here so I don't end up with +4 Int (in addition to regular ability score modifiers, and instead of darkness SLA) and have you not believe me? (Because it's happened before. Was awesome.)

Pathfinder - Rise of the Runelords

Oh, expect a lot of failure from me. Last time I did this one, couldn't hit a single thing. AFTER mods, only got higher than a 12 (a nat 20 at that) on a friggin "walking a beam for a competition" roll. ^~^

I fail super hard.

Also, I just went with average gold, since the first post in this didn't say and I wasn't there for the Int Chk. So...I'll roll when I make another one. ^~^

(Edit, also I edited more in my previous post before you replied. Probably came across as bitchy. It was intended to sound more confused)

Pathfinder - Rise of the Runelords

You don't get the HP/Skill/Favor class bonus at level 1, only level 2 and every level afterwards.

@Lucius Cypher

"Favored Class: Each character begins play with a single favored class of his choosing—typically, this is the same class as the one he chooses at 1st level. Whenever a character gains a level in his favored class, he receives either + 1 hit point or + 1 skill rank. The choice of favored class cannot be changed once the character is created, and the choice of gaining a hit point or a skill rank each time a character gains a level (including his first level) cannot be changed once made for a particular level. Prestige classes (see Prestige Classes) can never be a favored class."
Section 4 of the character outline (emphasis mine)

And you mentioned being okay with homebrew...but not 3PP. What? So untested is fine, but not perfectly acceptable stuffs? (I'll forgive if I can at least make my own weapon using the weapon building rules from the Weapon Master's Handbook (which IS from Paizo) and my own race using the race builder (also Paizo, from the ARG). Because I'm sure I could outdo anything from Dreamscarred Press using Paizo materials. (But really, will forgive it. I don't powergame, just saying I could easily enough without 3PP stuffs))