Hellis

The Silver Leaves; A Northern Crusade.

Hai Noxx! :D. Looking forward to the post. Just post. Grif will likely post before you. I hope dylan is still with us.

Zoe Quinn.

Perhaps you should work on how you present yourself and how you word your opinions next time then. YOu went "I rather people were afraid to be journalists. Then game devs" Guess what is a big part of making games mainstream and more accepted; Journalists covering it. Mainstream journalists are not gonna touch stuff with 10 foot pole when we have groups that are "OMFG, YOU ONLY GAVE THIS GAME A HIGH SCORE FOR ITS LGBT CONTENT". And if they do its the extremely easy "Look at the outrage over reviews giving LGBT content good scores." Incredibly easy to paint people as homophobic that way. And guess what games DO get the artform appreications. Games like TRANSISTOR, games Like BROTHERS. Games that, out a indie game devs perspective, Hit all the rights spots in all the right ways. And games that goes supernova, like Minecraft or world of warcraft get all the talk becouse of something called MONEY. And guess what, people love those games. But we as a community are doing our beloved buisness no favors. I see nobody taking a step back and go "death threats? Holy shit that is fucked up. Throw the book at them." No, I see "They should expect that on the internet." and my favorite "Its all faked. She does it for attention." I am sorry, but right there proves you care more about yourself then what is right. And that you are ok with deaththreats on some level. They are illegal actions, how childish the intentions may be.

I do not like Anita, She is cherry picking everything. Quinn a hypocrite. But the moment a person is under death threats, regardless of their stance we as community should react with more then cynism. It would be so easy, to just go "This need to stop." and band together to fight for a sensible cause. That way she would be FORCED into taking the dabate and then, if we provide reasonable argument, we could get our say. What we have now, is a bunch of people screaming bloody murder, and yes, cherry picking what to care about. Putting all of those involved, on the same terribly low level.

Without games, no gaming journalism? Quite right. But games aren't being made less and less becouse of reviews so I fail to see your reasoning. To say such a thing is factually wrong. The good, genuily good games get fan following, cult statuses and end up selling either way.

Zoe Quinn.

Magic Magnum said
Being perfectly honest, I'd rather we have some journalist be afraid to journalist than have game developers be afraid to develop games cause of bias ratings.That being said, both are still bad things to happen obviously. We need to be working towards making game journalism honest again, not sending game journalist out the door.

You honestly put games over journalistic freedom of speach. Really? One of them is enterteinment and reviews. The other is DEATH THREATS and shitstorms against what is considered the cornerstone of democracy; free speach.. Just really, really. What kind of priorities do you have here? Baffeling. I am sorry, games is second, fuck, it is eleventh to something like that. Gamedevs themselves are also afraid of doing the games they want, not for reviews but becouse getting anything popular means you gotta deal with entitled kids who think they know games better then them. Becouse if they try something this bloated ego of a collective deems as "not good enough" they are gonna get shit on worse then any review could. A bad review is a bad review, it isn't the nd of the world. Most good games tend to get good reviews regardless of message. Some games like "Gone home" Get good reviews for what in concept was good, and the reviewers liked it enough for the whole message. In that case it is taste, and where they put the importance.

If you don't like it, start reviewing yourself. Don't attack poeple becouse they think differently lest perhaps, it leads in to straight up harmfull behavior; See racism. Then engage them in open, logical debate.

When actual explenations are brought forth, when clear stances are showned it is nothing but scorn in return. This is not about honesty anymore. Anyone disagreeing with them is a traitor and a target for a large portion of this whole thing. A campaign for honesty engages in trying to open discussion, it doesn't attack without substantial proof. You allready proven right there Gwazi, that you hold your own enterteinment higher then freedom of speach. That alone signals to me that you are acting out of entitlement, not out of a honest desire to change something for the better. You are ofcourse, free to prove me wrong.

The gamer fanbases are also entitled as all hell, I should know, I have gotten upset about some really crappy things. But I mean really, really entitled. To qoute a article I read just earlier "Were were the organized outcry when companies were hiring models to mingle and sway male game journalists. Were was the rage when real evidence of bribes was being brought up. " There was none, becouse gamers still got their games. They didnt have to care about such things as guilt, sexism and femism. They didn't care less then. They cared a whole lot when suddenly the games they like got questioned. They cared suddenly about keeping journalism honest when the games THEY didn't like got good reviews. I'm sorry, but that is extremely off putting and dishonest no matter how you look at it from a outside perspective.

Dipper; Where are the proof that they are fake.(No seriusly, I am very interested in this. I googled it and at best I found super circumstatial and unsubstantial claims.) You have goddamn Fbi on the case now. If anything is faked it will show up in their investigation. Please provide substatial proof. I am not saying; go home and forget it. I am saying gamergate is not working, and if you have any semblence of contextual sense, you should realize that association with them is painting you in a bad light. And you know, every time anyone say anything against you, you throw stuff like "Moronic" "you gotta be kidding me."

Earlier you said even said someone wished for rape, pretty much proving how fucked up your view of things are. I mean, you are pretty much showing up with nothing substantial. Yes, you are you. But you are also what you associate with. And you associate with GamerGate who harbors less then reasonable folk. And what can you prove, exactly? And you are proving nothing but confrontational, unreasonable. If you want to provide a argument, I suggest you take a look at how Bravo provides his. I don't agree with everything the man says. But atleast he actually provides proper counter arguments and intelligent discussion.

Another thing, you streghtened the stance of SJW everwhere. They are seen as good guys more so then before. And trust me, I do not like most of them. But damn if 4chan and gamer gate and that bullshit have made them look like fucking angels.

Zoe Quinn.

Do you even look at what you write? I said that the astroturfing only hurt the movement. Its a thing a thats been used so much on the net, that its no longer anything else then seen as strawman like number manipulation. There are proper channels, and then there is manipulation. All it takes is one or two that fuck up and prove to be disgenuine, fake accounts and you have given your opponent a foot in the door. And that is what happened. On several fronts. And then there are anonymous threats, who are so easily used to discredit anything.

The Silver Leaves; A Northern Crusade.

A luni, A Tindra and shadowbourne walks into a bar. The Tindra drinks eeryone under the table, the shadowbourne gets spooked by the drunks and the Luni charges the entire bar for heresy.

The Silver Leaves; A Northern Crusade.

You are approved by the by!

Zoe Quinn.

It has also proven that asshat can ruin everything for people with legit gripes. And that a movement can grow so inflated it gets caught up in its own potrayed importance. Thanks to nutters who take things to seriusly, there are FBI investigations in the works. Bombthreats and deaththreats are what people focus on becouse they stick out the most. The trailed back astrosurfing didn't help GamerGate either. Good journalists (not Anita) are considering stopping to cover games becouse they find themself faced with daily threats on their lives. Before we go into the whole "Its just the internet" it only takes one of those to not be "Just the internet". And to live under constant assault over something you generally love is likely to wear anyone down.

The general fallout of all this is not gonna be beneficial to anyone. Aside maybe ANita, becouse she is getting all the sympathy. Good job internet.

And I took part of the conversations. I have seen what level the general conversations have been at. It hasn't been very constructive. And there have been some bizarre fucking opinions vented. And yes, there is a clear element of mysogony present. Not everyone, but remember you are dealing with a horde of angry netizens here. The loudest opinions are never the sensible ones.

The Silver Leaves; A Northern Crusade.

Yesss

Zoe Quinn.

"Fuck, she wishes. I might have a soft spot for dumpy, slightly pudgy 3/10 girls, but I wouldn't actually go anywhere near her IRL."


This right here, paints you as a fucking douche. Just stick to proper points. YOu do not make your side of the argument any favor by acting exacltly like what they accuse the movement you are supposed to represent. Have some sensibility.

The Silver Leaves; A Northern Crusade.

I'd suggest specify and remove a little from his powerset. Its to much over the place and He is 1) A strong, physically able warrior (Powerset 1), A pyromancer (powerset 2), Shadow Mage (powerset 3)