MelonHead

Running and Gunning - Higan Vs. The Magna Pater

No, I thought Shash would be in his lair from the outset of the fight because when you said you wanted me to post first you mentioned he'd just be 'rolling around in his sleep.' Therefore I didn't have Higan's Electric vision immediately detect the Pater (partially because you hadn't posted so I had no idea where it was) when he did exactly what you mention and span around 360. If there was literally no trace of his enemy Higan would have had to turn back.

I never actually said 180 degree vision was a major weakness, in fact its probably a strength by all accounts, but it's not complete vision. Also, by modern technological standards it's still fairly weak, he could easily have motion sensors or some other exceptional detection equipment. Considering the A.S.P is a scouting vehicle though I decided to just give it really good frontal vision.

Also, in regards to the Pater's ability to fight as an ambush predator, I hardly think that my 'ahem' embellished Computer tracking is really that much of a counter. It allows the Pater to leave false trails or lure Higan, without giving him any distinct impression of where the Pater is in anything less than a given mile or so of forest. If anything you should have been more wary of his Electric vision, definitely more of a threat to the Pater.

Was its trick actually just the Pater's narcolepsy acting up?

Running and Gunning - Higan Vs. The Magna Pater

“Good effect on tar-“ The Computer Systems vocalised analysis cut off suddenly and Higan’s frown deepened. It didn’t take a genius to work out what was wrong, the Computer had registered a decent hit on Slimy. The issue was, before it could even take the time to pat itself on the back it had lost sight of the target. The A.S.P took three more lumbering steps and then halted suddenly, skidding and sinking in loose earth, its left foot forward to stabilise itself as its left arm slammed into a tree and brought the great metallic walker to a stop. If the Machine could look quizzical, it probably would have. Its Pilot certainly was.

“Well shit, Slimy’s gone and dis-in-te-grated.” Higan laughed in his country-boy fashion. He probably should have been worried, but it could have been much worse. At least he’d shot the bastard before it learned how to hide properly. The view on the main screen had returned to an ordinary vision type, though the Computer connected to the optics flicked through all available forms of sight in order to re-acquire the target. Higan was happy to let it do the grunt work as he had a little think of his own. Perhaps his shot had triggered some kind of response in the creature? He wasn’t sure how it could disguise itself from Electric vision, then again, he didn’t really know how it worked to begin with, nor how Slimy worked for that matter.

“Oh well, time’s a wasting.” He decided finally, getting the Mech moving again with a little less urgency than before. It strode through the forest, each mechanical hydraulic sound accompanying a soft thump of displaced soil, permeated with the occasional cracking and creaking of intrusive bark brushed nonchalantly aside. He was heading for the Pater’s last known location, there was a good chance he could pick up the trail from there.

Running and Gunning - Higan Vs. The Magna Pater

Like I said, there's a big difference between slightly embellishing what a certain bit of technology can do to ensure a fight can actually happen story-wise and suddenly manifesting an immensely powerful combat ability. You could probably infer that the Computer Systems have a wide range of biological analysis tools considering it has both electric vision and the ability to detect the thickness of a material just by looking at it. However, with the exception of putting Higan in the vague area of the Pater so a battle can actually happen, it's not particularly combat applicable.

And I only utilized it at all because I expected your creature to be underground in its lair, so without that tool Higan wouldn't have been able to see it and would have had to give up in the face of days of walking through a shitty forest that laughs at him. It's hard playing a solider character, although he's made the matter personal he's not suddenly turned into a complete incompetent, so keeping the conflict alive is difficult to reconcile with Higan's personality and characteristics.

Also, it's pretty weird that the Pater seems so smart and cunning and yet hasn't worked out its enemy would have finite ammunition. Unless it's ran into an abundance of space aliens converting energy into projectiles I'd assume the only ranged opponents its ever faced would have finite ammo.

Also I'm horrible for having to have the last word, sue me.

Running and Gunning - Higan Vs. The Magna Pater

Your characters advantages, I might add, are still surmountable. Complete knowledge of the local area, now manifesting in total invisibility. This was actually the only point where Higan himself may have had an advantage, seeing as your character has an inherent ability to become immune to everything once its used once, his first strike was surely going to be his best.

The trees limit both visibility and manoeuvrability for the Mech. Using its primary weapon would be highly problematic and unlikely, it also has to deal with numerous plains of engagement, above, forward and behind. The Mech doesn't really have quick or lethal melee capabilities, so at close range the Pater can test its durability and fuck around with it with quick darting attacks. The Pater could also just throw rocks at it or some other similarly annoying action.

Also Higan could run out of ammunition, and ultimately the Pater can disengage at any time and there's really nothing he could do about it, so it's unlikely the Pater would even lose/die if Higan gained a strong advantage over it. Anyway, if you're going to fix the echo-location disparity we can stop OOC'ing and move on.

Running and Gunning - Higan Vs. The Magna Pater

I never said your character was overpowered, in fact I believed from the start it wasn't really equipped to deal with the Mech which is why I offered the Clockwork Man instead. What I do think is overpowered is the ability to sense absolutely everything an opponent is doing with the only limitation being ranges exceeding what you'd expect T5/6's to be able to conceivably attack at. Not only do I think that power is overpowered however, but it's also completely contrary to what you said your character could do. It uses echolocation to detect enemies, which is a perfectly acceptable substitute for sight and also far more useful in many fashions, such as being able to see an enemy behind you or in the dark while running away. It's limitation scientifically is that it relies on sound, which is slow. It was not the optimum method for avoiding the bullet, in fact it was not even a possible method for avoiding the bullet.

It has just occurred to me that I may have a serious OCD that Arena triggers, but the moment something happens that seems contrary to what is physically possible I must question it.

Regardless, your character does have its air pressure ability, which is obviously used for avoiding projectiles. Using that would be completely fine but -not- in the fashion you're describing, sensing the movement of the rifle (if it were, why would the Pater have echolocation at all, when the air method is far more overpowered). It's up to you whether you believe your character could avoid the bullet upon sensing it with its air pressure ability, it's not up to you to bend the rules of physics and have sound move faster than the rifle round.

Ultimately, with your character now invisible to the only remaining method Higan has of spotting it, the only way this fight -can- conceivably continue is for your character to be winged by the round. At which point Higan can pursue its blood with his Computer Sytems. Hell, it might even be able to turn it to its advantage. (With the computers I admit to taking liberties with, though only for the sake of necessity as you had made your character completely un-trackable and miles away, story wise Higan would not wander the woods for days, that would be insane and pointless.)

Running and Gunning - Higan Vs. The Magna Pater

Like I said, I'm not completely refuting the Pater's ability to avoid the shot, I'm refuting the fashion in which you did it because it's scientifically unsound. If we're going to use guns and echo-location we have to adhere to what those things actually do, otherwise we might as well scrap every shred of logic and restriction and go absolutely fucking crazy. It seems like you're corroborating my original joking comment that the Pater in fact does have spider senses, so what you're saying is you don't really have to be hit by anything unless you feel like it, just coz 'it knows shit.' Should I also have Higan randomly know where the Pater is after it has confounded his Mech's optics, just coz 'science magic?'

If your character can in fact use its air power to feel everything the Mech is doing from that range that's pretty damn close to Omniscience, which is pretty bullshit as an Arena power. You'll notice even with my highly advanced Mech it only has 180 degree vision. Completely removing the ability for anyone to do anything unexpected what-so-ever is not a mid-tier ability, its T8-9. I was under the impression it would only work at short range for spotting projectiles, as the description suggests with 'subsonic.' Therefore, by merit of your own description in the sheet, unless you're now refuting that and saying your alien does have practical omniscience, your character is relying on echolocation, which will fail for the reasons I've mentioned.

So, in my opinion, the Pater can only avoid the round in any fashion by using its air sensing power to feel the round coming, which in turn should probably only account for a partial dodge, but I don't particularly care if you -must- avoid all damage, only that you do it in a fashion that doesn't suggest you're going to bullshit your way out of any threat Higan can pose. It sets a bad precedent.

There are other arguments I might have raised, but I'm giving your 'the Pater is old and knows all the things' argument credibility. Even if it does seem to stray a little uncomfortably into foresight. What I'm not accepting is 'The Pater knows how to deal with this shit lol why would it not move'. Because if that were the case, why was the Pater not zig-zagging or moving in a fashion considered unpredictable in the previous post? It was just gliding the fuck around like a big slimy flying squirrel.

Running and Gunning - Higan Vs. The Magna Pater

I'm not particularly refuting that, I'm refuting your character's ability to know the Mech had targeted it (or done anything) and dodge accordingly. By the time the sound waves registering the rifle moving (even this is sort of a leap, it suggests the Pater had absolutely no faith in its camouflage and prepared to evade the moment the Mech made any moves with its rifle, unless it were somehow aware the Mech had a very specific vision type perfect for cold blooded vampire xenomorphs) arrived the bullet would already be there, for previously mentioned reasons. I'm not saying the attack is unavoidable, but rather that the method you chose is both unrealistic and scientifically improbable. Similar to when DJ used the rationale that his character in the tournament heard a bullet fired and dodged accordingly, when it would simply have been more effective to say he saw the trigger being pulled. Sound is slower than light, which is why at extreme long range your character is at a disadvantage due to its sightlessness and reliance on Echolocation. Interesting you chose to fight at such extreme range, considering.

It's of particular importance as your character seems to have already figured out how to avoid the Electric vision as well. If Higan can't score even a glancing hit first to convince him it's even possible to bring it down he'll probably just head home and bring in a heavy squad with flamethrowers.

If you want to get -really- mathematical about it, though the general gist is sufficient in my opinion.

1. Higan adjusts and fires, which as my sheet says takes 0.20 seconds
2. Bullet fires towards targets pre-determined location taking around 1.2 seconds, add on the 0.20 of adjustment in Pater's favour, sound waves bounce back off turret pointing in the Pater's general direction
3. Bullet arrives up to three times faster than the sound waves, which take up to five seconds, dictating the Mech's movements.

So how has the Pater managed to use information from those sound waves to pre-emptively avoid the attack?

Black Mountain Tournament: Sigurd vs Gigue

Sigurd’s style was cautious, careful, defensively minded. It was why he was still alive despite the extreme danger of his chosen profession. The first step in any coming conflict was to acquire ground, good ground. The position one acquires preluding the onset of battle could be argued the most important factor in devising victory. In every combat Sigurd found himself a part of he always strived to adhere to this rule. Hence, like previous, he had immediately headed towards the middle of what he expected would be the bordered region.

His journey had been cut short by two things, a stream cutting off further southern travel and the approaching form of his enemy on the other side. He stopped himself just five feet from the edge, controlling the earth as it were. He watched beneath his helm, observing quickly while he could what it was he faced. The man was large, with no obvious weapons and no shield, bulked out with some form of armour. Without further ado Sigurd plucked one of his well weighted throwing axes from his belt and chucked it into the air, catching the handle deftly as he watched his enemy’s approach. He planned to meet him if he crossed.

Black Mountain Tournament: Sigurd vs Gigue

<Snipped quote by MelonHead>

It's in the post: "When the river came up, he simply jumped over it and pressed on with his powerwalk: whoever was on the opposite side of the arena, he'd come right towards them and waste no time on greetings."

@Vordak

Huh, must have missed it somehow.

Black Mountain Tournament: Sigurd vs Gigue

So is Gigue just going to wade across the stream, or should I assume he stops or crosses the bridge?