MelonHead

Innue vs Melon

It's alright, sometimes I forget what it's like to have less free time, I've been a student for three years but when I work full time over the summer it kills my motivation as well.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. If possible could you be pretty specific with time passing? The amount of rock John gathers is based off time, and although it's mostly just fluff anyway as the damage is balanced by T1 it helps me visualise what I'm working with if I know how much mass he's had time to gather.

Innue vs Melon

Hey, you can't do worse than Vordak, I've been waiting 23 days for his post now.

Divinity Vs Dazsos!

I didn't respect you as a person, mainly because I didn't even know you but particularly since your little spat with Tasuke years back where you did exactly this, but I respected your achievement defeating Lyzan and assumed you must have at least -some- idea what you were doing.

What I realise now, with more experience in debate, is that the fallacies you fill your arguments with really just speak for themselves. So no Dazsos, I have no intention of 'tickling you' with any more insults, I think your words speak for themselves, and I suspect anyone who does look through this thread can come to their own conclusions. I wring my hands of it.

Innue vs Melon

So much for once every three days ^_^

The World of War: Central Hub/Main Thread/Chen's Tavern

Dunno, I'm only familiar with Kanitah and Bita, really.

Divinity Vs Dazsos!

I never said 'T1E is objectively the best system ever devised on god's green earth'. Everything I've said has been my opinion. Did you go to Dazsos' strawman school of debate? If that's all you had to add, feel free to walk back out the way you came, Enki.

That being said, every other form of combat balance I've seen has been exceedingly poor. Only T1E completely negates power creep, balancing out fights without the need for dice rolls or coin flips. It is in my opinion the best method of control for a ranked (AKA a competitive) setting. Cool-downs are unbalanced for fighting because the penalty comes after the pay-off, it's like the difference between solar beam and hyper beam, one is objectively better than the other. If you kill your opponent it doesn't matter if you have to wait a turn to charge afterwords, if you have to wait around and do nothing for a turn before-hand your opponent can see it coming and get a hit in first, better balancing the fact that your ability is OP.

Mana pools have the same issue. People seem to expect fights to last forever and badly balance their mana so that they're really never at any risk of running out.

There's a reason, I presume, why T1E has lasted for ten years and still sees regular use. Not to mention, if it's the most restrictive system and I still kill -everyone- using it, god knows how easy it would be for me to ruin people when I wasn't restricting myself by using it.

Divinity Vs Dazsos!

Dazos, you've built up a strawman so high I think it's probably scaring birds away in a ten mile radius.

The fight was to be regulated by a judge, not T1EA, which wasn't mentioned until later. Say I didn't know anything about T1EA (you probably will say that), so I don't have a specific named ruleset to point at when I say I wanna' play a ranked match. This is wrong, it indicates that you can only fight in a ranked setting if you know about T1EA, or another mechanical version of rules, which isn't mentioned as being mandatory. Surely that's elitist, if it's not required but enforced anyways.

@Dazsos

How was it going to be regulated by a judge, if there were no rules?

It's elitist to say you can only fight in a ranked setting if you know the rules? I literally face palmed, here's an analogy to point out how wrong this is.

'It's elitist to say I can't participate in this football tournament just because I don't know how to play football and started punching people in the face and throwing the ball into the net rather than kicking it.' No it isn't, it's common sense. If you don't know the rules of a game, you can't fucking play it. I don't care if people play conkers with their chess pieces in unranked, but if ranked play is to mean a damned thing then the people participating (at least in the same damn match) have to be using a common rule-set or it's not a competition any more, it's just 'doing shit.'

You've only proven how T1EA isn't perfectly fair or catered to the unique, so why should I want to accept the rules of something that can be seen as illogical, or has mechanical glitches that nobody is willing to rework at this current date in time?

No shit, but T1E is still the best that exists, because it covers loads of other issues, for example stopping Corban from instantly killing your character, despite his power-set reasonably allowing him to do just that. I don't see you complaining that Corban couldn't instantly kill you, not to mention it was T1E that allowed you to request to see his sheets powers, even after you accepted it being vague at first.

You can abandon it if you want, but you have to replace it with -something- that is fair. You can't expect an opponent to accept you having a special rule-set that isn't balanced in the slightest. All you had to do to avoid this was decide on a ruleset in the first damned place. What were you doing? Divinity obviously felt that T1E was the default, what did you think you were fighting under? Magic Dazsos rules?

I'd rather get rid of it all together from my life, and instead entrust judgment to someone who is catering their own time to reading over my fight, someone I know and trust to make a solid decision.

That's nice, I have no fucking idea how you expect a judge to make that judgement without any rules to go by other than some vague idea of 'logic rules lolol but no instant killz plz m8' not to mention you completely fucking ignored Innue's 'ruling' and continued to insult your opponent.

It was a judged ranked fight. There's a flaming icon saying 'ranked' next to this topic's title, and someone willing to say they'll judge who wins.

That's great, but you didn't decide on any rules, so your judge was worthless. Not to mention anyone can say a fight is ranked, it only becomes ranked when Rilla decides who wins, that's how Mahz made it so that's how it works.

I hope you enjoyed this condescending experience, I no longer feel any lingering respect for you from defeating Lyzan long ago to humour your shitty debating, so you get the full Melon experience.

Divinity Vs Dazsos!

Personally, so long as they had a judge, no matter how loosely around, and agreed, then it's ranked. What rules and stuff they go by, as I have maintained, is entirely up to them.

I would love a uniform set of rules, which would make things much easier, but some folks don't like some rules, or understand them, or what have you. Then every other month we are arguing over them, and a new ruleset, etc.

Obviously there are flaws based on this, as any two people can get a third ringer and pad their points.

@Rilla

If both had to agree on a ruleset for this to count as ranked then this match is already disqualified by your quantifiers, because they evidently did not.

We already have a uniform set of rules, there are plenty of things you just -don't do- in Arena, for example forced hits and attacks that can't be interacted with in any fashion.

Or, as has happened here, people can just insult their opponent until they leave and win that way. Which is frankly quite ridiculous, no one should be rewarded for that sort of conduct in any ranking system.

I'm petitioning that a general rule-set is required for ranked fights from here on out, it doesn't necessarily have to include the balancing method, that can be decided upon by the competitors. But is should definitely include other parts of T1E, such as no force hitting, no attacks that can't be interacted with (for example, flawless mind-control, death auras, other stupid shit like that) no complete immunities to forms of harm (logic permitting, a robot with no blood obviously can't be poisoned) etc.

And outside of that, a fight must have an impartial ranked judge, and if that judge is called into question then that can also be reviewed, by Rilla or by three other members of the ranked community. The character sheets must be sent in full to said Judge with no powers obfuscated or otherwise vague, and the -exact- rules under which the fight is to be carried out should be decided upon by both competitors. If a competitor leaves of forfeits before a fight is over the reason why they left should be taken into account before rewarding their opponent. Rewarding being a bully is not what a ranked system should be about.

If we can't adhere to even the basest form of consistency, then the ranked system is just meaningless numbers.

Terra Magica (Open/Accepting Players!)

I have no idea, I guess everyone left?

Divinity Vs Dazsos!

That's an over simplification of things, there has to be an understanding that certain factors have to be met for a fight to be considered ranked, or we might as well ditch the entire system as it means literally nothing.

If all it takes is for the two competitors to agree at the start to fight, without any indication of how that fight is going to be regulated, then what does a fight being ranked even mean? The whole point is that it should be a competitive match, which can be judged as such. There is no competition in the world that exists with undefined rules from the outset. One can construct a reasonably sound argument that the reason this fight ended isn't down to anything less than the fact that one person was playing with a set of rules the other wanted to change, and when things got unnecessarily heated because there was no restriction or rulings being made, a person left. I'm not sure we should be condoning being a dick to win fights, it's the sign that our ranking system is shit and laughable.

Maybe Divinity gave up too easy and should lose, I dunno, but if this is to be the norm for ranked fights from here on out I'm disabling my ranked score and ignoring ranked competition forever, because it's meaningless and a waste of time.