Vilageidiotx

Precipice of War - We Write Under The Sign Of The Goat

<Snipped quote by Vilageidiotx> This was never clarified until just now. There was no reason to believe we would ever go forward with anything because no one ever bothered to set an end-date for the tech limitations until now. Which is exactly what I am arguing should have been done from the start. We set up these rules without thinking of an end-date for them. It was something we made happen because shit had gotten out of hand (in part because, again, no one ever bothered to call this shit out when it was important) and we needed a quick way to fix it. So we did, but without really looking at the long-term effects.

@Pepperm1nts

You're looking at it way too rigidly. Precipice seems to be quite capable of moving forward organically, we just made sure to put a leash on it so that growth could happen in a way that wasn't 'tarded. We've assumed that tech will eventually move forward. And remember, we've advanced three months of RP time in the last year. We're not blazing ahead so quickly that the tech question is going to be a pressing one.

Precipice of War - We Write Under The Sign Of The Goat

<Snipped quote by Vilageidiotx> You're saying this like I'm the one demanding better tech. I don't care about modern tech. What I am concerned about is that Europe will be stuck in 1950 forever for no good reason. I agree with the concerns. Hell, I was there agreeing to put the rules in place. But it shouldn't be something that is absolute and in place forever. Because that would be really stupid. The only difference here is that you and Aaron are arguing for it to be a forever-thing, while I am arguing it shouldn't be.

@Pepperm1nts

Don't be i'norant, son. We ain't saying that tech in Europe is stuck in the fifties. When tech leaders move on to more advanced stuff, the default tech will move up. If you want to jump out of the default, you got to do so in a way that looks good. And what I mean is this. We don't want to see a meeting between dudes saying "Country is needing some tech. Let us develop a tech. Build the lab and do the tech.", followed by a string of bland posts that look like "Our tech is becoming good tech. All that good tech is being better tech now too." Fuck that noise. Run some espionage mission. Have a guy who tries to come up with jet tech and ends up with a different interpretation of it. Forget about making jets and instead develop something that counters them. When you do things like this, make sure they involve difficulties and trials. Nobody wants to see a spy mission where a perfect spy shoots his way through IB headquarters and waltz's out with the tech in their briefcase. Nobody wants to see somebody create something unbeatable. And, more important than anything, nobody wants to read posts about a nation where all they do is things like successfully tech up and get better politically. Gotta see setbacks and character growth. We wanna see depth, and that means accepting and involving your faction's flaws.

Precipice of War - We Write Under The Sign Of The Goat

Sooner or later, though, we need to loosen the technological bottle-neck a bit. I ultimately agree with the concerns, and I personally don't even like writing about modern tech, but it only makes sense that technology advance by itself a bit every now and then.

@Pepperm1nts

It'll do so on its own I'm sure. The point I am making is the "It needs to happen eventually" situation is too easy to exploit, so these things will be heavily regulated. Like I said, if you can pull it off in a way that looks good it'll be allowed. If you want to be important and get concessions, focus on writing things people want to read.

Precipice of War - We Write Under The Sign Of The Goat

If it can be managed cleverly and respectably, than tech updates can be done. If there is any hint or sign that it might be done for self-advancement, it shouldn't be done. And this is a ridiculously narrow window for me. VX was acceptable because it meant a brutal alternative to nuclear weapons that came with its own moral questions, horrible scenes, and flavor. Aaron's spy-plane is acceptable because it means you get these almost-impartial godlike commentary on shit going down around the world. Hug's massive zeppelin aircraft carriers were acceptable because they were unique as hell and gave Prussia an air of power without using cliches. The limited jets are acceptable because, partially due to how few they are, they put some weight behind the images of China and Spain as the only superpowers. This is the criterion for acceptable tech updates. They have to add something to the spirit of the thing while also making sense. If it all breaks down to "I should have jets because it is possible if you think about it." Or "I should have jets because it will make my country look cool." then I really don't think you should be given that sort of tech. The worst thing you can do is start out by trying to simply show off how important or bad-ass you are, because then nobody will give a shit. In the past we let people have a little more breathing room in these things and they responded by fucking up the cannon with the least interesting storylines and characters they could pump out while just jacking off about how important they must be because of all their tech and borders. Now we know better and we restrict these things more. Make something without crazy tech and maybe later you will be allowed to do some crazy tech.

Precipice of War - We Write Under The Sign Of The Goat

I couldn't tell you, but I think CKII is more memory/processor heavy that it is graphics heavy. Victoria and EU only keep track of the detailed information about nations, but CKII has to keep track of similar information for an exponentially growing number of characters.

Precipice of War - We Write Under The Sign Of The Goat

I almost have my post done; but, I just got $20 steam card and $20 PSN card (I might spend it on eps. of glee or a new show). Looks like that I am able to get the last DLC on Victoria 2! What other games should I get that are like those games?

@Rare

If you don't got CKII, get CKII. If you roleplay that game, you end up with the most amazing shit.

Precipice of War - We Write Under The Sign Of The Goat

I hope ya'll know your signature website password thing.

@Pepperm1nts

Yeh, why?

Precipice of War - We Write Under The Sign Of The Goat

The Chinese, and later the Europeans who picked it up from them in the eighteenth century, used rockets a little. China didn't just shrug off rockets because they were too important for them, they didn't use them because the tech at the time made them way too unpredictable and therefore useless (just think back to when you've played with bottle rockets and you'll understand what I mean. You can aim that motherfucker, but it'll whistle back around and pop above your head if it feels like it). Rockets before the twentieth century fulfilled a primarily psychological role since they did at least make a lot of noise and explode dramatically. What the twentieth century brought was the ability to guide them enough to make them work. Also, where the fuck did my siggy go?

Precipice of War - We Write Under The Sign Of The Goat

We do need to accept that Precipice has an aesthetic that comes down to just being an aesthetic. I always liked to imagine this as an internet version of the old dime-store pulp magazines from one hundred years ago, where realism is tossed away in favor of atmosphere. But Googer makes the most important point when it comes to weapons. Old Precipice suffered from that old NRP problem where everyone tries to outdo each other in OOC. That happened in the first Precipice, and it ended up looking like an independent Florida mining "Steel" straight from the ground to make top-tier jets and a world-class navy. Honestly, if we had started Precipice with some foresight, we probably would have limited the technology further, but back in the beginning of 2011 we didn't imagine it would last a year, let alone four. That meant that jets entered the storyline. When we came around to fixing the canon, we kept the parts where jets actually played a roll in the plot beyond masturbation. And this wasn't just us going around taking jets away from the people who aren't around as much. Up until last year, Ethiopia had some of the best jet tech in the world because, at one point, Florida randomly sold most of its planes to us for cheap. And I got rid of that because it was stupid. Weapons are not interesting enough to actually make the RP on their own. People need to learn how to be humble so that they will tell stories instead of jack off about themselves, and the best way to do that is to more or less force it where Spain and China are OP. If people are forced to play second fiddle to them no matter what, than maybe we can avoid the paper-tiger approach to nation-building that makes so many awkward unreadable plotlines. This is a world where The First World War lasts a decade, where one third of Africa becomes one country because of a little blackmail, where the US just suddenly starts to spite it's Imperialistic tendencies and stays in its own borders for no reason, where every single person in China is perfectly cool with it's authoritarian regime and that same regime is unnaturally benign, where Spain can be an industrial power, where Armenia matters... Precipice isn't realistic. That was never the point.

Precipice of War - We Write Under The Sign Of The Goat

I guess with that ruling, what we can do to be 'delicate' is include some kind of disclaimer, I guess. Something that states that whatever characters say or do is obviously not in line with the beliefs of the writers, and that it is done purely for plot. I am glad the mods here have some sense, though.

@Pepperm1nts

Gotta have faith. These people know what they're doing. The era of Blackbird and Citricsquid are in the past for now.