Ferguson, MO protests and police brutality.

[Juice]

What does the Guild make of the current situation in Ferguson? Police, more heavily armed than those soldiers who invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, currently dispersing whole groups of peaceful protesters with tear gas and rubber bullets. Also, reports (and video) of police detaining journalists and other members of the media. No fly zone has also been implemented, meant to keep the media out.

SOURCES:

Ferguson police tear gas Al-Jazeera news crew, dismantle their equipment.

Police fire tear gas at protesters standing in their own backyard.

Veterans on Ferguson: very interesting look at how US vets perceive the current situation.

Two journalists arrested while covering Ferguson.

The situation is, needless to say, fucking terrifying.

[So Boerd]

Can certainly tell what you make of it.

[Hellis]

The kid who got shot, got shot 6 times and no ambulance was callled. The police have attacked Journalists and detained them for no reason. The entire thing is a clusterfuck.

[So Boerd]

I don't know what happened, but if I was a racist cop, I wouldn't murder someone in broad daylight in front of an obvious witness.

[So Boerd]

Turns out the kid had just robbed a store, which might explain possible aggression.

[mdk]

Unrelated, but worth reading.

I have no facts and thus no reaction to the Ferguson case. All I know is what has been reported on the news -- three principal stories.

1, the news is selling news about the treatment of the news, and hopefully that phrasing tells you how much stock I put in their word. They're literally invested in uproar, and I don't trust their accounts of mistreatment. I'll dig into witness accounts when I have the time for it, and probably share it here, because I know you guys care deeply what I think about things.

2. The racial advocacy community is selling news about racial injustice. Same story. I don't mean to discredit any person or organization (or, needless to say, ethnic body) by saying this -- only, that a white cop and a black victim does not a hate-crime make, and I have much more digging to do before I'm prepared to render a 'Racist' verdict. Nor am I ready to vindicate the shooter, just based on his badge -- don't take me the wrong way. I'm only stating my skepticism.

3. The police are selling the story that the victim wasn't a victim, and that if anything they should've shot him sooner. OKAY, not those words, they're just saying that the kid was literally robbing a place shortly before he was shot. That's a pretty serious allegation and, again, having no facts, I'm not ready to pass judgment.

These are the three things I'm going to look at first, and I'll see where the rabbit hole takes me. On the off-chance that someone has applicable resources I can use to speed things along, feel free to share -- be warned that I hate pretty much every variety of journalist, and I'll probably find fault in your sources, but hey, even fault helps me sort things out, so whatever.

[ASTA]

So Boerd said
Turns out the kid had just robbed a store, which might explain possible aggression.

Shoplifting a pack of cigarettes and shoving a store clerk doesn't warrant the use of lethal force against a fleeing target.

Realize that the people that 'protect you' are nothing more than filthy animals with ever-increasing stockpiles of military-grade hardware and a superiority complex.

[soph]

ASTA said
Realize that the people that 'protect you' are nothing more than filthy animals with ever-increasing stockpiles of military-grade hardware and a superiority complex.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND THIS IS THE MOST TRUTH I HAVE SEEN.

It's so crazy. They don't even want to be at fault here, so they try to twist the story in all kinds of different ways that are...it's just weird.

[TheMadAsshatter]

I personally would go there myself and try to get the gist of things from my own experience, but on the chance that the cops there have lost their minds, I'll stay in my comfy abode.

And for the record, not all cops are bad, though all cops do seem to be getting worse.

[ASTA]

TheMadAsshatter said
I personally would go there myself and try to get the gist of things from my own experience, but on the chance that the cops there have lost their minds, I'll stay in my comfy abode.And for the record, not all cops are bad, though all cops do seem to be getting worse.

If a 'good cop' adheres to the Blue Code or otherwise remains silent while their comrades--the so called 'bad cops'--commit crimes against the American people, then they are just as guilty as those same corrupt policemen and policewomen are.

They need to speak up; their job is to serve and protect, so they should protect us from these bestial savages that occupy police stations throughout the United States.

When police officers go unpunished for these destructive and absurd actions, it sends a message to all other policemen and policewomen across the nation that this sort of behavior is acceptable.

The justice system in this country is disgusting.

[Brovo]

ASTA said The justice system in this country is disgusting.

Lady Justice is blind for a reason.

Anyway.

From what information I've seen of it, albeit biased as most of it largely was, yeah, this cop deserves to be brought up to a trial, and yes, this requires further investigation by an independent source or federal level. (Although I believe multiple federal sources are already investigating multiple aspects of the case.)

Do I think the protest was justified? Maybe. It's hard to define what is justified for the death of a single small time thief. Do I think it was useful? No. Absolutely not. All this protest did was put civilians up against police officers. Civilians I might add who threw things at the police officers. Civilians I might add who prevented police officers from crossing the crowd to rescue businesses from being completely and thoroughly sacked. Civilians I might add who stood by and just watched as people lit things on fire.

The protestors deserve none of my sympathy and they get none of it. And before anyone goes with that "oh but the robbers weren't protestors!1!" Sure, maybe, but the protestors sure did absolutely nothing to stop them and only helped them by refusing to cooperate with police officers at all. I mean they could have at least tried moving to another street, or something, so the police could do their jobs. Or at least allow a couple police officers through the crowd. Oh wait, if that happened, people might have tried to murder them judging by how vicious the crowd was towards the cops.

Besides that, what was the point of the protest? A protest succeeds by having a clear cut goal to accomplish. What was the goal of this protest? Get the cop fired? Is that it? Was it more? Was it "get the cop's head cut off and shoved on a pike"? Was it arresting him? There was no universal voice to this protest and it naturally failed.

No, what you have here is a clear cut example of why you should not let your emotions rule over your judgement. This was a tragedy and it needed investigating, but those hundreds/thousands of voices would have been better spent spreading the word, getting the media involved without it becoming a protest, throwing petitions at their mayor, pooling money to hire private investigators, asking the federal government to send private investigators...

But nope. Instead the response was "lolfuckcops" and throwing a hissy fit that allowed multiple small businesses to get ransacked and involved violence against police officers. (And yes, throwing objects at police officers constitutes as violence. Don't play dumb.) The "peaceful" protest stopped being peaceful the moment they started doing that.

This whole situation was an overblown, tragic disaster. And the news media is doing what it does best: Blowing it up even more for views.

[So Boerd]

ASTA said
Shoplifting a pack of cigarettes and shoving a store clerk doesn't warrant the use of lethal force against a fleeing target. Realize that the people that 'protect you' are nothing more than filthy animals with ever-increasing stockpiles of military-grade hardware and a superiority complex.

I am saying why the kid may have attacked him. He robs a place and 10 minutes later is stopped by a cop? He's connecting the dots. No hard evidence exists that he was fleeing as of yet.

That this kid would be acting normally when accosted by a cop 10 minutes after robbing a place seems unlikely. I think, but don't know, he did attack the cop, so the cop shot him.

From what I know so far, I anticipate this will play out like Trayvon.

[Rare]

So Boerd said
From what I know so far, I anticipate this will play out like Trayvon.

I agree. This is what is going to happen.

>black teen boy dies.
>killer is arrested.
>protests happened all over America.
>the media will show the bad side of the teen.
>there is a big case about it.
>protests stop after the case starts.
>months later and the judge founds the killer not gulity.
>killer goes free and lives his life.
>everything goes back to normal.
>repeat in the next year or months.

Anyways, I believe that cops are getting over power by the military gear shit, because of America's military spending. After all, the cops need a little of the military's toys to stop the terrorists! But, I agree with TheMadAsshatter, not all cops are bad or corrupt; and the reason why they just don't tell is because of the fear of losing their job or something bad will happen to them. To Brovo, I agree with you, the whole situation was an overblown, tragic disaster and now it got worst and the media is using this moment to show the bad side of those protests.

But, the people are going to be more scared by the police now, because of this. But, I got another question, why don't the people just get mad and rebel against the government?

[Brovo]

Rare said why don't the people just get mad and rebel against the government?

Do you want to go up against a military that has over one trillion dollars and enough firepower stockpiled to level a small country with, at best, an assault rifle, a boot, and coarse language?

Not to mention the majority of Americans are just too apathetic to care. Any rebellion now would only be comprised of small groups of dissidents that wouldn't even so much as dent the thick infrastructure of the United States' government's defensive capacity.

Plus, the only thing Americans are scared of more than the government is everyone else: The Chinese, the Russians, and so on. (Note: When I say Americans in this context, I'm not referring to you or any other individual American, I'm referring to average joe blow schmo who's only source of consistent information on the outside world... Is the news media that is controlled with a vice grip by giant business conglomerates who want absolutely nothing to change.)

[So Boerd]

Thankfully, the military is more conservative than the general population. I expect the military will be with us if/when that kind of action becomes necessary.

[Brovo]

So Boerd said
Thankfully, the military is more conservative than the general population. I expect the military will be with us if/when that kind of action becomes necessary.

Kinda sorta. I think it'd be split more than it would unite, like the populace. I'm sure there are parts of the military that are more than happy with the amount of power they have that the government is granting them. (One trillion dollar budgets for instance.)

On the other hand, I would at least like to believe that most of the soldiers would refuse to attack their own people, neighbours, friends and family, and they could definitely be a tipping force.

The issue is getting a rebellion started large enough to constitute being classified as something bigger than a mob. Then being coherent enough to not appear deranged and uneducated.

[The Nexerus]

ASTA said Police are nothing more than filthy animals with ever-increasing stockpiles of military-grade hardware and a superiority complex.

This is the underlying attitude that is responsible for the riots in Ferguson. Race has nothing to do with it, and the specific situation in question has very little to do with it either. The salient issue here is that a large demographic of people have a complete lack of respect for officers of the law, and are either still inside of or never bothered to leave their adolescent rebellious phase. The shooting of Michael Brown wasn't the reason for the protests, it was the excuse for them.

To all of the people complaining about the involvement of riot police: what is the appropriate response to an angry mob burning down a gas station and looting streets full of businesses? Should the police have instead sent sternly worded letters to the mailboxes of the rioters?

[mdk]

The Nexerus said
This is the underlying attitude that is responsible for the riots in Ferguson. Race has nothing to do with it, and the specific situation in question has very little to do with it either. The salient issue here is that a large demographic of people have a complete lack of respect for officers of the law, and are either still inside of or never bothered to leave their adolescent rebellious phase. The shooting of Michael Brown wasn't the reason for the protests, it was the excuse for them.To all of the people complaining about the involvement of riot police: what is the appropriate response to an angry mob burning down a gas station and looting streets full of businesses? Should the police have instead sent sternly worded letters to the mailboxes of the rioters?

The reporting is telling, too. From a headline I read today: "Police fire teargas grenades into protesters who weren't peacefully protesting." In other words: Teargas rioters. But no one will call it a 'riot,' because that would make the police force seem justified, It's newspeak and mind-control, people, pay attention, it's happening *right now*.

[HeySeuss]

I really don't care what the hell is going on there and who did what, so much as I care about cops having to follow the law too. If Michael Brown was surrendering, he shouldn't have been shot while surrendering. That's also what the FBI is investigating.

I'm sure some people will find the following offensive; criminals do have rights, they have the same rights we do and if we don't hold law enforcement accountable to the standards set forth in the Bill of Rights (amendments 1, 3-6, 8 and 9-- notice that half of them deal with specifically limiting the scope of judicial and law enforcement power in this country) and the Constitution (particularly 14) then we are in some deep shit eventually -- they can do it to us too, even if some of us don't think it could ever happen to us or cops will intrinsically recognize a decent ordinary citizen. I'm one of those, and I got hauled over and fucked with, so I don't have that illusion anymore. It's why I take it seriously when the rights of a person that seems questionable are violated; those are my rights too.

In any protest situation, you'll find members of the protest or criminals looking for an opportunity to pull shit. That doesn't invalidate the point being made, or justify the attacks on reporters and individuals not engaging in violence. Again, the Constitution. If law enforcement officers don't want to follow it, they need to resign. If they won't resign, they need to be removed from power. We have mechanisms like federal court and the FBI to prevent that removal from being a messy ad-hoc affair that involves people taking the law into their own hands, because what you get from that is what you see in Ferguson.

[So Boerd]

Nobody trusts government or law enforcement less than I. However, what little evidence we have I think backs up the cops. I will be the first to admit I was wrong if that changes.