Progressive Arcanum

[Leotamer]

I guess that could work, or another way to look at it is that she is an out-layer and is basically a fallen fay, kicked out for being a manipulative deceiver. Really, your idea could work, I mean, he could still be pretty impressible without help considering he was a ten year old without any parents.

Also, out of curiosity, are there male fairies?

[Imperfectionist]

Isn't this all going against the explanation of Fae we were given earlier? Spirits, separate and alien to the mortal realm, where only people like Ouramancers could communicate with them?

[Leotamer]

How I personally imaged it is that Fae in the mortal realm are just magical constructs that act like avatars for them to interact with the material plane. Though, I guess we have to wait till Hanged gets online.

[TheHangedMan]

Imperfectionist said
Isn't this all going against the explanation of Fae we were given earlier? Spirits, separate and alien to the mortal realm, where only people like Ouramancers could communicate with them?

Fae are different. It's why their classified as 'Greater Magical Beings' rather than 'Supreme' - they have that kind of power, but they have physical form and interact with whomever they please. They're kinda out there.

[Imperfectionist]

...that's a little inconsistent, as you haven't mentioned any spirits that can take physical form until now. What other types of "Greater Beings" are there? Demons? Lovecraftian horrors? My character's the one whose whole deal is that she communicates with these things, and I feel like I have very little understanding. Perhaps you could give us a section in the info post specifically detailing the various types of Magical Beings, from ascended ancestors to the recently dead to trickster gods to Zeus and Azathoth...

:/ It might help.

EDIT: My problem is that I have my own interpretations of these things, how I think Ouramancy should work and the types of Beings that are out there, etc, and they are obviously quite different from yours. Compounding that, even with the discussions we've had, this is a very complex branch of magic, and I need to know exactly how you picture the Outer Planes (or whatever), exactly how an Ouramancer speaks to these spirits, and what the Magestrava can do with/to them (again, I have my own ideas, but you obviously have it all figured out already). I'm in the dark here, and my character background's going to suffer if I have to rewrite it because I got the magic wrong...

[TheHangedMan]

Imperfectionist said
...that's a little inconsistent, as you haven't mentioned spirits that can take physical form until now. What other types of "Greater Beings" are there? Demons? Lovecraftian horrors? My character's the one whose whole deal is that she communicates with these things, and I feel like I have very little understanding. Perhaps you could give us a section in the info post specifically detailing the various types of Magical Beings, from ascended ancestors to the recently dead to trickster gods to Zeus and Azathoth...:/ It might help.EDIT: My problem is that I have my own interpretations of these things, how I think Ouramancy should work and the types of Beings that are out there, etc, and they are obviously quite different from yours. Compounding that, even with the discussions we've had, this is a very complex branch of magic, and I need to know how you picture the Outer Planes (or whatever), exactly how an Ouramancer speaks to these spirits, and what the Magestrava can do with/to them (again, I have my own ideas, but you obviously have it all figured out already). I'm in the dark here, and my character background's going to suffer if I have to rewrite it because I got the magic wrong...

I see your point. Alright, I guess I should get started on that. Anyway, on the Fay, I know that they were classified as Spirits, but in truth, this is just for formalities sake. The reason I was a bit wary on explaining about the Fay is because they technically belong in their own category. I know your view point on Spirits and Ouramancy, and from what I can see, it's actually similar to mine.

The Fay have powers like Spirits, but they have physical form an can make contact with anyone. For organizations sake, they were just classified as 'something in between' but still technically a spirit, as they come from a realm that's different from ours. Every other kind of Spirit is as you think - only an Ouramancer can communicate and interact with them.

[Komamisa]

Alright, reply train starting. Pardon my absence, I was sleeping the day off since I was sick.

Damn this quoting system.

Imperfectionist said
Mm, my idea for Ouramancers is that if a bloodline that has gained such abilities continues to practice the mysticism they originated from, every child in that line who would have been a general Magestrava become Ouramancers instead. So, they are much rarer than the general populace, but the numbers are altogether more predictable, as there are only a few families in each area who boast such power (maybe magic, specifically Ouramancy, is more common among these families, as well?).:)

As for your character background, do you think you might be able to blend it with mine a little? After all, my character's family is one of the few in Lismos with the "gift", as it were, and yours (she? he?) would have to have observed it in action somewhere, right? What if they knew each other before being enrolled in the Academy? I always like it when characters have pre-established rapport.

Right, right. Family traditions are the long-road to gaining Ouramancy traits, but they're also much easier to maintain/survive through over having demons and/or celestials bothering your family for a few centuries. It's probably best to think of Ouramancy as an "evolutionary" response in a bloodline to be able to deal with higher beings, as if contact with them also has mutagens get shoved into their reproductive organs. Unfortunately, having said gift subjects them to a crippling overspecialization, it seems.

Sort of like how the highly evolved birds of the Galapagos wouldn't survive outside of their part of the islands, or how Pandas wouldn't survive if they weren't so cute (LOL).

Anyway, hmm... I can see the backgrounds being blended, yeah! Though I would prefer if the characters themselves do not know each other directly, as my character is planned to be seeking out Ouramancers to help her family out with their... problems. It's perfectly reasonable that she'll know of the premier Ouramancer families in Lismos, and that she and her family would be seeking their help. Inversely, it would be known that her family is having quite the problem with demons.

Shifter_Master said
I get the unfortunate feeling I live in a different time Zone then the majority of you, why do the good ones always have to be out of synch T^T

Oh, don't you worry, aside from the fact that I slept for 18 hours today, time zone means absolutely nothing to me. I live in Texas, but I essentially run on GMT +9, yet I also maintain contact with friends in GMT +/- 0. So if anything, you'll probably almost always have me to roleplay with :P\

While on that note, for the convenience of everyone else, what time zones do y'all live in?

TheHangedMan said
Sepcarim are simply born with more. More control, more tolerance, more sensitivity, etc. when it comes to using these energies. They were born with bodies that were crafted through chance that can specifically handle their abilities.

In theory, a Magestrava can do what a Monk and Syker can, but again, only superficially. It will take more than a miracle to reach what they can do with ease. As for Shamans, they are more sensitive to the movement of Nature - their perception of it is largely different from everyone else's, be they Magestrava or not. They can see and interact with it on it's basest form, which is a gigantic living organism. Basically, they can see the Circle of Life and ride on it.

So ultimately, it's a form of innate talent/natural genius versus hard work/learned genius within a specialized field. So does this mean that, like Ouramancy, the traits of Sepcarim are inherited through a bloodline's affinity toward said traits? Likewise, would that qualify Ouramancers as a form of Sepcarim?

I can see a slight irony here, where a Magestrava might find theirself jealous of a Sepcarim's innate and ridiculous control of a branch, easily and thoroughly controlling something they can only dream of having such fine power over; whereas a Sepcarim might be jealous of a Magestrava's flexibility and potential, covering the majority of fields that they can't even hope to find proficiency in.

TheHangedMan said
Just keep in mind that Akasha-Deviancy is the absolute highest epitome of all magic studies. Talent, hard-work and luck mean nothing alone when it comes to this branch; you have to bring all three together, but even then it's not guaranteed. It is the ultimate goal for every Scholarly inclined Magestrava, and I will put you through hell if you even attempt to study it - that's just how difficult it is.

Type-Moon references abound (okay, perhaps not)! So that makes sense, many a Magestrava's ultimate goal would be to reach the sum-total of knowledge, the Akashic Records. But it's such a hard road that they may strive to only scratch one facet of all-knowledge—that is, mastery over one school or another.

It's rather understandable that someone trying to learn... Well... EVERYTHING will be put through hell if they tried to learn. While this isn't my character's goal, I'm looking forward to see if anyone will be attempting this arduous task.

Makes me wonder just what it takes to be a teacher in this field. Or maybe they're secretly divine beings having fun and posing as teachers. Hah.

Shifter_Master said
*Snip*

That sounds... really fantastic, lmao. Can't wait to see what you produce! He'll be a fun character to be around, no doubt. I can clearly see that Imperfectionist's character, having some degree of contact with the true and only weilders of Akashic-Deviancy (higher beings, that is), would be a go-to for someone looking to control it, themselves.

Sounds like Imperfectionist will have quite a lot of people going after their character for different reasons. This'll be fun!

---

@Imperfectionist & @TheHangedMan

Sorry, Imperfectionist's confusion on the Fae may have me in part to blame, in that some of the things I have theorized might have mixed together with what TheHangedMan has explained of them. I have no questions of my own on the creatures, as everything that's said about them makes a great deal of sense to me.

In other news, I started reading the Dresden Files, since I have a feeling it might help me out a bit, lol~

[TheHangedMan]

Komamisa said
So ultimately, it's a form of innate talent/natural genius versus hard work/learned genius within a specialized field. So does this mean that, like Ouramancy, the traits of Sepcarim are inherited through a bloodline's affinity toward said traits? Likewise, would that qualify Ouramancers as a form of Sepcarim?

I can see a slight irony here, where a Magestrava might find theirself jealous of a Sepcarim's innate and ridiculous control of a branch, easily and thoroughly controlling something they can only dream of having such fine power over; whereas a Sepcarim might be jealous of a Magestrava's flexibility and potential, covering the majority of fields that they can't even hope to find proficiency in.

Sepcarim aren't defined by their abilities, but rather, they're defined by what made them the way they were, namely, the ability to use only one form of energy. As Ouramancers can use all types, they aren't Sepcarim :)

Also, Sepcarim, much like Magestravi, are spontaneous and random mutations. Bloodline has nothing to do with.

Type-Moon references abound (okay, perhaps not)! So that makes sense, many a Magestrava's ultimate goal would be to reach the sum-total of knowledge, the Akashic Records. But it's such a hard road that they may strive to only scratch one facet of all-knowledge—that is, mastery over one school or another.

It's rather understandable that someone trying to learn... Well... EVERYTHING will be put through hell if they tried to learn. While this isn't my character's goal, I'm looking forward to see if anyone will be attempting this arduous task.

Makes me wonder just what it takes to be a teacher in this field. Or maybe they're secretly divine beings having fun and posing as teachers. Hah.

Ooh, nice, someone got the reference :) Anyway, about teachers on this field . . . well, there aren't really any teachers. Once you get to the point of studying this branch, it becomes a matter of personal research and gathering information. Some help others by sharing information and results, while others hide their discoveries because they don't want others to achieve the impossible first.

[Leotamer]

Just to get an idea about the world we leave in, is this society very classist? Is magic more important or less important than money/status. And if this society is, is it a once poor always poor or not.

[Komamisa]

Actually, now that I think on it, I do have a question in regards to the Fae (two, actually: is it Fae or Fay?): so you (TheHangedMan) had mentioned that the Fae are predominantly benign/good-natured creatures, placing them rather solidly in the territory of the "seelie" mythos, does this mean that their actions and mentality are things that humans can understand and predict?

Rather than personalities completely lackadaisical and unfathomable to humans, that is.

---

Ah, okay, I can see why Sepcarim and Ouramancers are two different things, thank you for clearing that up.

That a Sepcarim is a random mutation makes sense as well. As I had mentioned, I feel that the Ouramancy trait is as a reactive evolutionary thing, I didn't really see a reason why a bloodline would suddenly "adapt" itself into becoming one of Sepcarim. I suppose I just asked because of Monks, seeing as it's a pretty common RPG Class, as well as a real-world theological profession.

Indeed, about 40% of my understanding of things in this RP comes from a background of obsession with Type-Moon/Nasuverse magic. Which is also where I got my impressions of the Fae; in the Type-Moon lore as whimsical, unintelligible and downright spasmodic creatures of significant power and magical developments that typically live in an entirely different dimension that isn't necessarily parallel to our own.

Ahhhh, okay, I understand on Akasha-Deviancy. I wonder how other Magestravi and Sepcarim feel about that bunch, haha.

[Komamisa]

Leotamer said
Just to get an idea about the world we leave in, is this society very classist? Is magic more important or less important than money/status. And if this society is, is it a once poor always poor or not.

In inference to the introductory post of this RP, I would think that Magicians are held in rather high regard, elevated in social status, as well as considered as slightly above that of other humans. This doesn't necessitate that they are more or less important and influential than the rich, however. After all, "In response to the need of society for magic, plenty of countries have established many Academy's in an effort to increase the population of competent Magic-users, known at large as 'Magestrava' or 'Magestravi' in plural."

If it were a situation of "once poor, always poor", then it would not make sense for Academies to be erected. After all, why share such "exclusive" knowledge that can elevate one's position in society when it could be kept only to the elite? Just because something is for the benefit of society as a whole doesn't mean a greedy elite would share it with equal opportunity.

[Imperfectionist]

Thanks for the absolutes with the Fae (I just prefer this spelling, incidentally; it looks more Gaelic), Hanged. Um, I've sent a PM to Koma to discuss our characters, so we'll see how that goes... And, well, I'm on the East Coast, USA.

I believe we're on Eastern Daylight at the moment, making it GMT (UTC) -4.

[Komamisa]

Right-o, I'll get to reading that as soon as possible. First, writing up a series of questions on how magic itself is translated from the caster to the world...

Oh, right. While I don't mind Koma, I do have an ever-so-slight preference toward being called Misa~ Please do call me as you wish, though!

[Imperfectionist]

Ah, well, it was one or the other, I just generally default to the first syllables. :) Misa it is.

Speaking of which, Impy works best for me, and I've now called TheHangedMan "Hanged" once or twice without complaint. Is there one you (TheHangedMan) prefer?

[Imperfectionist]

Alright, I've thought about your interpretation of Ouramancy, Misa, and come up with an alternative:

You say that it is an evolutionary response, something to allow these families to survive their multiple encounters with Spirits and Magical Beings... And I don't quite agree. To me, the biggest distinction between Ouramancers and the common people is exactly what Hanged has just said: "Every other kind of Spirit is as you think - only an Ouramancer can communicate and interact with them."

So, there are gods that have an interest in this world, there are the spirits of ancestors and of the simple dead, and they have a single conduit for effective communication with the physical plane: Ouramancy. It isn't an evolutionary response on the part of the humans, it's a path laid down by the Divines themselves. They have crafted Ouramancers as their connection to the physical world, gifting what would have been ordinary magestravi with these altogether unique abilities. After all, how could a human, magical or no, learn to speak with the gods, if that knowledge didn't come from the gods themselves?

[Komamisa]

Aha, I had laid it as an "Evolutionary Trait" as an easy way of identifying with it, both for myself and for others due to my tendency to base even the mystical as if it were a form of science. I tend toward metaphorical comparisons when describing things. That it was for easy identification was the reason I left "evolutionary" in quotes, as it wasn't literally a form of evolution as per Darwin's "survival of the fittest" definition.

That in mind, I agree with your interpretation for the most part. However, you must remember that Ouramancy is not a trait gained solely from families' interaction/experiences with gods, but also as a consequence of experiences with the infernal and things less than gods but more than mere mystical beings.

If the trait were solely a gift from the gods to speak with them, it would carry the implication that divine spirits are always benign, to actively be giving gifts that allow humans to communicate (that is, to transmit and receive emotions and informations) with not only themselves, but all supreme magical beings in order to better deal with things like demons plaguing a family.

However, it would make absolute sense that this may have been the initial intention and purpose of Ouramancy, that a god or the gods had gifted it to humans so that they could have messengers. The gift in turn somehow began to function as a sort of mechanism where it could automatically give itself to families based on their experiences with supreme magical beings of all levels and inclinations, bringing me back to the ideology that it's a "passively emitted mutagen", so to speak.

It should also be remembered that one doesn't just become an Ouramancer, but instead, their children, grandchildren, etc. do. This is almost perfectly in-line with the thought of it as an "evolutionary" trait, rather than just an instantaneous gift.

tl;dr Originates from the god's more or less good intentions, but now something that comes from any meddling by higher beings.

[Imperfectionist]

Yeah, I think we need to agree to disagree. Heh, perhaps there are differing interpretations among Ouramancers themselves? Gods and spirits give conflicting answers, and no one quite knows how it began, where the first Ouramancer bloodlines came from, or why it develops in certain people and not in others.

Remember also that one must be a Magestrava before she/he can be an Ouramancer, so even among the bloodlines such individuals are rare (due to the random nature of magical talent). The bloodlines only mean that the Magestravi who are born to that line are invariably Ouramancers, not that there will be more Magestravi in that bloodline than there are in others.

EDIT: I guess the thoughts are similar... My main point is just that the spirits (whether they are benign or not is irrelevant, as long as they want influence in the physical plane) see the Ouramancers as necessary, because they are the only mortal beings who can cross the bridge and interact with both sides.

[Komamisa]

This is actually perfectly well and good. Even in real life, people will always have differing opinions of how one thing or another may have originated, or how one thing or another even functions. So it's perfect. Heck, such origin theories may even manifest as schools of thought within the RP itself.

That being said, I actually suggest that TheHangedMan not further explain Ouramancy's origins at all for this very purpose. We'll leave this debate for in-RP itself!

Right, thank you for that reminder. I sometimes forget the key detail that not everyone can be a Magestrava.

[Imperfectionist]

Komamisa said
That being said, I actually suggest that TheHangedMan not further explain Ouramancy's origins at all for this very purpose. We'll leave this debate for in-RP itself!

Right, thank you for that reminder. I sometimes forget the key detail that not everyone can be a Magestrava.

I'll second that, unless it somehow has to do with the story he's written out. And, you're welcome. I had to remind myself of the same thing.

Considering the quite small number of viable magestravi in a certain population... Well, I was thinking that there would be only a very small number of skilled Ouramancers in Lismos. Exact numbers can be flexible, of course, but maybe fifty? One-hundred at most, and almost all of them based in the biggest city/capital?

[TheHangedMan]

I've decided that the permanent spelling should be Fae - I kinda like that better too, and you can call me HM or Hanged, both are fine.

On the topic of Ouramancers . . . well, I guess we can save that for the RP. In any case, anymore recommendations to the OOC sheet before I make this official?

GMT +8

And yes, most Ouramancers are stationed in big cities.