Ammokkx

Monkeys and Typewriters

Yeah, I know, good job posting in this thread about half a day after the discussion died down. I was busy, shuddup.

Either way, the short answer is: Yes, bots can create art. No, they cannot create art right now.

The issue with artificial intelligence in its current form is that it doesn't know what it's doing. We're using brute force methodology to make them guess with as much accuracy as they can what the thing they're meant to be guessing is. Note that a lot of this guessing is reactive- You give them an image of a frog and they say "I'm like 98% sure that's a frog right there". This is the most common and refined type of AI we have right now. It doesn't create anything- it's just able to recognize and react.

That doesn't mean there aren't AI that can't spontaneously create right now. Take Deep Blue, the chess computer- through playing itself more times than 100 humans combined could play in a lifetime, it's able to create this unique style of chess nobody else can with the sole purpose of winning. That said, Deep Blue is just operating on a bunch of self-gathered data, and is just recreating the most effective strategies it remembers. Still, it's a step in the right direction of "creation" and "creativity" since it did, on its own, learn how to play chess really good.

A step beyond even that would be those "image generator" bots you see. I hope you're familiar with the concept, but if you're not, this anime doesn't exist. Here you can see that the bot certainly is doing something, and creating pretty good results considering it's a robot... but there's one critical flaw: It also cannot filter out its own imperfections. Just like how the image recognition bot can say "This is 98% a frog" the image creation bot can only ever make 98% of a complete image. It'll never create a 100% truly 'correct' looking art piece because it does not inherently understand what it's actually doing, it can only guess "this is what you humans want, right?" and even that comes with the caveat of only having gotten to this result after being told thousands of times "yes" or "no". It didn't spontaneously learn anything, thus it couldn't actually create any art.

This, currently, would be the same issue you'd have for literature. While generating an image is easy (for a robot. I know how hard it is to draw.) since it's only one, large static combination of colour, creating the nuance of language itself? That's a different story entirely- quite literally, given the topic of the thread. There are story bots out there, but they're more than a little jank, because there's just one issue: Language does not make any kind of sense.

Language is inherently subjective as it is an ever-changing, continually evolving process of people adapting their vocal chords to make the other guy be gooder at ur spoken tongue. In order to write in a language, it's not enough to have objective knowledge of the words in that language: you need to be intimately aware in the exact manner and nuance of how people speak and talk to each-other... and you need to be aware of that in a subjective manner. That is what makes a text truly unique and yours; the fact you speak in the way you have adapted to based on your experience conversing with other people. If a robot analyses each of these individual voices and finds and average between them, even if we made that coherent, the 'average' would lose all possible meaning because it would sound so boring and, well, everyday. The AI wouldn't have a voice of its own because it has everyone's voice.

This is why I said "unless the AI can be meaningfully subjective and arbitrary, it cannot create art" in the status bar yesterday. AI, in its current state, does not and cannot know why it's doing things right or wrong. It's arbitrary, yes, but not with a purpose- it's arbitrary because we told it to be. Unless an AI can start actually thinking for itself, having freedom of thought, and knowing why it's doing what it's doing, it cannot ever make something we will truly enjoy without going "okay but this part's super wonky though".

Even if the premature AI we have could, by some miracle fluke, generate a piece of art of any kind that didn't have blatant flaws... well, it wouldn't matter, because it'd have generated that once. We ignore the millions upon billions of failed attempts prior, and we'll continue to ignore the attempts after, too. Because the AI is brute forcing until it finds something that works, it doesn't have a goal in mind beyond what the human behind the screen tells it to. Without approval from the human, the AI would've tossed it out and kept trying- so it's also the human element that's the deciding factor in the end.

PPQ made the point of "but we ignore the thousands of wannabe manuscripts in real life too" and, yes, but how is that relevant? Even if we didn't like those manuscripts, each and every single one of them had more purpose and vision behind them than the robot stringing random words together. Even the worst manuscript among them would be better than 100's of attempts by the bot, on the sole basis that it has more of a cohesive flow and at least makes some kind of sense. Even if they didn't, at least the author could explain why they did things the way they did, and if their answer is "idk, i wanted to be random" that's still a decision they made. The AI's answer will always be "because the data told me to" which means it will always generate predictable, meaningless results.

Freedom of thought is a critical component in creating consistent art. Even if an AI wrote the best piece of fiction on the planet, it couldn't do that twice.

A human could do that twice, and that's what it means to make art.

Grimoiric Heart - A Magical Girl Adventure

"I suppose... you're right," Robin acquiesced. "Not everyone I save is a good person. I could even be fighting evil to save evil. Neither Merlin nor Monarch are here to help me. But even so..." her voice trailed off. She raised up her bow, not to take aim, but to show it off to her opponent. "Even so, I believe in them."

---

~Memories from the Literature club~

"She looks so peaceful like that, doesn't she?"

Yuzu, Yuri and Ayaka were gathered around a table in their clubroom. They came back to celebrate after their second rescue mission, a close shave they barely got out of. Ayaka was fast asleep, her head resting inside the arms she'd folded over the table. Yuzu's comment was affectionate, but Yuri didn't give much of a reaction to it. He'd been strangely quiet ever since their victory.

"Do you think we did the right thing?" he asked Yuzu. She looked puzzled, blinking a bit.
"Huh? I... I think so, right? We saved those people and defeated the pageless..." she replied.
"But... they were Yakuza. Should we really save bad people, if they're going to hurt others again later?" Yuri asked of Yuzu. She tried to fumble something out, but...
"That's... I..." ...she couldn't give him an answer. Yuri gave Yuzu an apologetic smile.
"Sorry, I shouldn't have asked that right? I think I'll go home early today. You should keep Ayaka some company, alright?"

Yuri left the club room, leaving just Yuzu and Ayaka. Up until then, the three of them had gotten along without issue, but now, Yuri seemed to be at odds with the rest. Their days afterwards continued as if nothing had happened, but Yuzu had felt a rift forming between them. One that had taken a long, long time to heal...

---

"Back then, I couldn't give you an answer, Yuri." Robin thought to herself, never breaking eye contact with her adversary. "But now..."

The girl opened her mouth to give her answer.

"No matter who it is... no matter what they've done... I'll use my bow to protect them! I'll save their lives so they have the chance to become a better person!"

Robin jumped backwards into the air, her increased athletics giving her enough height to land on top of the cubicle used as an entryway to the stairwell. She had a perch to look down at her opponent from. "If you're going to harm these people, then I'll stop you each and every time! En Garde!"

And with that, Robin fired her first shot at the juggler.

Staff update

While I personally didn't interact with Storm much at all (or any mod, really), I thought Candy Canes were a super cool and fun idea. It's really nice to have a positive event like that and made the community revel in a bit of festive spirit. I hope we can have more events like that in the future, even if it's not strictly a mod that organises it next time, but a regular user working with the mods. Or something. Maybe. idk. Can't say much about them outside of that event, but they did good there.

one less mod to get in my way of seizing full control of the means of RProduction

Grimoiric Heart - A Magical Girl Adventure

"This finishes it!"

Robin had leapt up into the air to deliver her final shot to the enemy pageless with a flourish, the impact of her arrow pinning it to the floor. "Gah! Curse you, curse you!" it would yell back at her, but Robin paid it no mind. The dome worried her, still, but for now, the danger had passed. She wanted to give a speech about how once more evil had been brought to justice, but a voice from up above interrupted her before she got even a single word out.

"Laaadiies and Gentlemen! What do we have here!?"

Robin reacted quickly, shooting her gaze upwards to scan for the source. She saw the figure dangling from their tightrope. Said figure would give Robin a warning: "Lookout! Don't you know it's dangerous to stand under a tightrope? What if something falls on your head, you wouldn't want that, would you?" and as their last sentence finished, threw out an attack to the magical girl on the roof. Robin was just in time to recognize the club that had been thrown at her, rolling to the side to avoid being crushed underneath. She recoiled a bit from the shockwave, but managed to get back on her feet without much issue otherwise. Scheherazade's voice rang out in Robin's head, mentioning a certain group of 'Darkkeepers'. At the same time, Robin's assailant made themselves known: A young girl, not much different from her. She seemed to possess magical powers, just like Robin and her team, and was dressed appropriately for the occasion. The other girl's costume was that of a stage performer's.

Even as the girl in front of Robin taunted the markswoman, she would not immediately raise her bow. The other girl, aside from the initial attack, hadn't yet made a move. She might've been anticipating Robin to strike first, so the latter opted to talk rather than fight. "Are the Pageless your doing?" Robin would ask. She didn't let her guard down, carefully watching her opponent's movements so she could be ready to dodge at a moment's notice. While observing like this, Robin continued her interrogation: "If they're not, then why are you working with them? And... why would you attack innocent people?"

Grimoiric Heart - A Magical Girl Adventure

Robin was quick but the Pageless was quicker. For every arrow she shot to block its path, somehow, it found a way to break through. Even if Robin could shoot with pin-point accuracy while moving, she was still limited to the draw of her bow. She couldn't pull her arm back with enough speed to punish it for being out of position, and the one time she could, it managed to use the momentum of her projectile to its advantage to launch out to its intended location.

"ENEMY PAGELESS! I've gone to the shadows! Be on guard, multiple projectiles!" a voice reverberated inside of Robin's head.

'...Ayaka!' Robin thought to herself, growing worried about her fellow grimoire wielder. She had to trust in Yuri and Momo to protect her ally, though, as Robin herself was much too split from the group to turn back and help. If she didn't press on, the target would escape. She rushed to the outside of the door, chasing her quarry. Robin readied her bow, but just as she wanted to take aim, the world was blanketed in darkness.

"What-!" she cried out in surprise, twice when the spotlights suddenly turned on. Scheherazade seemed to have some idea of what was going on.

"Be on your guard, everyone! I hope it's not what I'm thinking, but I don't like where this is going,"

Scheherazade's warning had a calming effect on Robin. She let down her bow and crouched on the spot, taking a defensive stance. She focused for a brief moment. 'Even if we don't know what's coming, keeping the citizens safe is our mission. Stick close and protect them. I'll hold the Pageless off on the roof.'

Robin put her back to the wall of the outcrop so she couldn't be flanked, then took aim at whatever target she could. "No matter what tricks you fiends use, we'll overcome them and bring you to justice!"

Nexus: The battle for one's memories.

"Welcome," the store clerk greeted Rui as she pushed open the card shop's door. She looked around a bit and then walked up to him, noticing the guy behind the counter wasn't much older than her. He also had a really angry-looking face. "Ah, I haven't seen you here before, he noted before asking Can I help you with something?" of Rui.

"Ah... well..." Rui hesitated a bit before explaining her situation. The store clerk attentively nodded and started looking through stock.

"Yellow and green, huh...? If you're looking for a quick power-up, you probably want..." he trailed off a bit, before coming up with a few varied products. "Normally you'd want singles, but since you're still building your collection, buying packs is the way to go. You can either go for boxes or..." he began to ramble off, admittedly going quicker than Rui could keep up with. The clerk explained the differences in each set, what cards she could expect to get and what those cards would do for a deck. Rui looked over all of them, nibbling her thumb a little as she considered her pocket money.

'I don't have that much money, but if it's for Sora...' she thought to herself. After a few seconds longer of such deliberations, Rui steeled herself and looked up at the clerk. "I'll take one booster box of both of these," she told him. After checkout Rui seated herself at one of the tables to open her collection, tearing open one pack after the other. She read each card carefully, even off-colour ones, to see if they were any help. Most weren't of much use to her, but one stuck out in particular. "Colour boost..." she muttered to herself, taking out her own deck and sorting through her cards. If she coupled that with some of the other cards she'd gotten so far, then maybe...

Her thoughts were disturbed as she heard the store clerk yell "Welcome!" to someone new who'd stepped in. Rui looked up to see who it was, a little surprised at who it was. That person, in turn, seemed to notice Rui.

"So we meet again." the masked boy from the day prior said to her.
"Oh? You're friends with her, Nanashi?" the clerk chimed in again. Rui looked back at them.
"Nanashi...? Like 'No name'?" she asked.
"Something like that. He comes by often, but never told anyone his real name," he answered back. The clerk looked up at Nanashi. "Hey, why don't you play with our new customer a bit? She's recently gotten into Nexus, just like you."

Nanashi turned his head to Rui. "I see... so you too, then." the boy said. He walked into the store and took the seat opposite of Rui's.

Lumia looked up to her partner. "He's not a Commander, Nee-chan. It's okay." she reassured her. After Lumia opened her mouth, though, Nanashi's gaze shifted to her. It made both Commander and Avatar tense up for a moment, thinking he could her Lumia.

"Is that your Avatar?" he asked. Rui nodded. A mysterious "I see." was all the reply she got after that. The mask made it hard for Rui to know what the boy was thinking. Could he hear Lumia, or was she just imagining it? He unnerved her, even more when she thought back to yesterday. Nanashi had talked to her about memories, after which Lumia and Rui met. It's almost as if he knew this would happen, but without being a commander himself...

Lumia, being the empath she was, could feel the tension coming off Rui. "You wanted to test your new deck, right? Battle him. I'm sure it'll work out!" Lumia reassured her. Rui closed her eyes for a bit in thought. When she opened them again, Rui gave Nanashi a smile.

"I hope you don't mind that I'm just a beginner," Rui told him.

After cleaning up her mess and laying a play mat on the table, both Rui and Nanashi played against one-another. Nanashi's Avatar was Green, which reminded Rui of Sora. Unlike Sora, however, his deck was much slower. It didn't lay out many attackers and Nanashi spent most of his time blocking and gathering cards. Rui had the upper hand for most of it.

"Seraph and Gleipnir," Rui said with focus. Nanashi countered her Attackers. She didn't stop pressing her advantage, but Rui could feel the game slipping away from her.

"I place Divine Knight Yggdrasil on the field. Diana, my avatar, evolves at no cost."
"A level three attacker..." Rui muttered in awe. She moved her own cards into the trash due to Diana's effect. Once her turn came around, Rui knew she had nothing left. Rui put down her cards. "I lose," she plainly told Nanashi. "I guess my deck still needs more work..." Rui mused to herself.

"Are you that quick to give up?" her opponent asked. Rui narrowed her eyes. Nanashi spoke up again: "If you're only doing this half-heartedly, then stop it. In order to win... in order to keep winning... you need to have the resolve to see things through to the end. Until the bitter end..." Nanashi's voice trailed off as he, looked up at the roof.

"...Aren't you being a bit dramatic? Nexus is just a game," she retaliated.
"It's more than just a game to me. I thought it would be the same for you, but... I guess you're different from her after all," Nanashi countered. He gathered his cards, got up from his seat and turned back to the clerk. "I'll drop in again later. I didn't have much time today," he told them before walking out of the store. Rui sighed.

"Strange guy, huh? Don't feel too bad at losing. He's the store's number one player," the older boy told Rui.

"No joke..." Rui replied with exhaustion. She leaned back in the chair, looking down at her cards still strewn about.

"...What do you think, Nee-chan?" asked Lumia. "Do you think you could win against another Commander now?"

Rui picked up Lumia's card and held it in front of her face. "I wonder about that...? Let's try to find one together."

"...!" Lumia was surprised at first, muttering "So you really..." before giving Rui a determined nod. "Leave it to me, Nee-chan!"

Rui cleaned up her table and left the store. She first looked up at the sky. It was grey, but no rain had fallen yet. Then, Rui looked down at her hand. She opened her palm, two shining coins among a pile of black ones.

'...Sora only has one of these now. It's time to get to work.'

Grimoiric Heart - A Magical Girl Adventure

Robin jumped from her perch when the boss monster countered, the cubicle underneath crumpling from the impact of the corpse. "Using your own allies as a shield... how dare you!" she called out after it, but couldn't pursue due to the follow-up attack. Robin looked around, scanning for both Yuri and Momoe. "Flare, Monarch! You two make sure the civilians are safe. I'm going after that villain!"

Robin got up from her crouching position and hopped from one collapsed piece of furniture to the other, quickly identifying and shooting down any shadowy creatures blocking her path. It didn't take her long to reach the stairwell, briefly catching a glimpse of the jack-in-the-box fleeing upwards.

'Ayaka! The target is moving up the building! I'm giving chase; try to intercept while I lure him out to the next floor!'

Robin telepathically gave the message to her teammate while she chased after their quarry. "I won't let you get away!" Robin shouted as she fired off arrows during her sprint. The magical projectiles weren't aimed straight at the monster, rather, she was shooting at the ground in front of it. By cutting off its escape route, Robin wanted to force the monster into the perfect spot for Ayaka's ambush.

Secundi Lux

"Crystal!"

Chie arrived at the base of the tower, relief washing over her when she saw one of her fellow Ars Magi safe. Chie couldn't stop the oncoming smile on her face, saying "Thanks goodness you're okay... When I saw that explosion-" with her sentence left unfinished. The cause, of course, being the loud crash that occurred behind her. Chie turned and readied for battle. On instinct she re-summoned her gladius, the ambient Nox gathering in her hands to form her two Chakrams. Good thing that she had a moment to do so, as the void was busy repairing its damaged limbs.

"This thing... Earlier, the way it attacked..." Chie's thoughts began to race, adrenaline pumping through her as she readied for the inevitable split-second reaction that she would need to follow up with. The void conjured up an attack; three balls of Nox in a volley. Chie's focus sharpened. She tossed her chakrams, one and two, to intercept the balls. Unfortunately, two is still lesser than three. Even when Chie hit had her two targets head-on, causing a shockwave mid-air, she couldn't take care of the third.

It was a small blessing, then, that she had Crystal there to help block the last. Well, as much of a blessing as going up close to intercept it could be. "Crystal!" Chie worriedly yelled as the other girl had gotten scarily close to the blast radius. Chie didn't have the time to worry, though. She had to focus on the target, already readying another attack. Chie tried recalling her chakrams, but they were too far away. The world had slowed down for her when she'd realised that fact. It was going to take no more than a split second for the next volley to be readied... and Chie, without her chakrams, would be unable to block it. All she could do was brace herself for the coming impact.

But that impact never came. Chie watched in awe as a new Ars Magi, one she'd never met before, leapt out of an alleyway and took care of the problem before it could become a problem. Chie caught her returning chakrams safely, then continued to observe. The lightning-coated magi called for a certain Aoife to join the fray and join the fray she did. With a veritable ocean of water conjured around her, Aoife was floating in the air. This Aoife bent the water around her, a thread separating itself from the mass to be used as a weapon to-

"...Focus! This is your chance," Chie chastised herself to snap out of her daydreaming. She turned her focus back on the void. Chie figured she could hurl her chakrams at it again, but that regeneration was a problem. The other magi were doing a good enough job cutting off its limbs already, Chie wouldn't be much help there. No, what Chie needed to do wasn't aim for the kill. It was something else. She breathed in, feeling the ambient Nox in the area course through the gem lodged into her body. "One more time... just like before," Chie steeled herself as she reached out her hand: First an open palm, then a clutched fist. As Chie closed her hand, the area around the void began to heavy. The movement of its (and, by virtue of proximity, the lightning magi's) limbs slowed down; the very ground beneath the creature pulling on it to pin it to the concrete below. The monster could put up a bit of resistance at first, but it would find it harder and harder as Chie's magic continued to grow in strength. The flipside of that coin was that this particular spell acted more like a grapple; she needed to maintain her hold at all times unless Chie intended to let the creature to break free.

A feat made exponentially harder by the pain coursing through her back, hitting her like a recursive brick at the worst possible time. "Attack it... while I've... got it locked up!" Chie's strained voice called out to... well, anyone who had the ability to follow up, really. She couldn't exactly turn her sights away from the target, finding herself equally brought down to her knees from the effort she needed to put in.