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    1. Balance 12 yrs ago

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@Balance

First counterargument: God created reason and is a God of logic. He definitely does operate on our logic.

Second counterargument: The computer analogy is flawed because Existence isn't a case; it's its own system entirely with underlying interworkings. So it would be significantly more like one operating system running on binary and another running on goats. One makes no sense to the other, and they don't properly represent Existence as a whole, because whatever logic the System and Subsystem operates on in the logic that all of Existence must follow. One operating system, two opposing materials.


Hmm.

<Snipped quote by Dynamics>

But the operating system is still itself made of Code. Sure, one is running on goats, but goats are still made of the same smallest possible quantum that the binary is made of. So if you convert it via something bigger, like base elements, you can translate from binary to goats, it's just the process doesn't make sense to us because we're humans who don't have grasp how that would actually work.


Hmm.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
So, I read your argument from yesterday. Both sides made really good arguments in my opinion, and I couldn't decide who was right, but the following argument supporting Dark came to my mind. Please read the whole thing before you start responding.

Consider this scenario: A computer, which runs two different operations systems--a binary one and a ternary one. Assume, for the sake of simplicity, that they require different arrangements of electronic components, since they use two sorts of logic and it wouldn't really work if they were all using the same stuff. Now, these two parts are slightly separated from each other, such that they don't go trying to run themselves in parts which don't make sense. That would break everything. However, the two systems can get data from each other, using a translator.

So why don't they break? Because they're separated. But, even still, they use the same electronic components--just arranged differently. Or, even better, they use the same materials which make the electronic components--just arranged differently. Therefore, the same framework (the materials) is running two entirely different systems of operation which are normally incompatible with each other.

As one more basis, note that the electronic components obviously are not made out of binary, or ternary. The electronic components which binary and ternary run on use a different logic of arrangement. Two different systems of logic running on another system of logic which makes them both happen.

Now we extend the metaphor. Two universes. Two different kinds of logic which make zero sense to each other. If one universe tried to reach into the other universe and use its logic, everything would break. So they're kind of separated. What are these two universes running on? A framework: Code. Code, arranged in different ways so that the two kinds of logic can run separately. The Code has its own form of logic which allows both types to run.

Now, this logic is not necessarily our logic. In this example, we are binary, and the other universe is ternary. It doesn't use our logic. It doesn't make sense to us. It defies our human reason. And yet, is it not avarice to say that ours is the only system of reason that should ever work? Why shouldn't Code have its own form of logic which supersedes ours and yet allows ours to exist? Why shouldn't Code be able to allow other forms of logic?

A perfect example is God--He certainly doesn't run on our reason. He has His own way. Heaven will, of course, be filled with many things which we can't comprehend right now. And yet it will make sense, once we're running on a better framework of logic--God's framework. So, that said, if we have an example of this very thing which I describe happening in real life, how can we say that it couldn't happen in Existence?
<Snipped quote by Balance>

???: Use it in conjunction with a fissure phase at... five thousand alterations per second. That should eliminate the pest.


-Ruby- What does a fissure phase do?
bed, ned
<Snipped quote by Heroic>

<Snipped quote by Multifarious>

<Snipped quote by Darlit Glitch>

...That is enough.
*Fazes into the wall and disappears*


-Ruby- *sighs*
<Snipped quote by Heroic>

*Remains attached to a floating, ethereal portion of the wall*
...
*Fog begins to spread throughout the area*

<Snipped quote by Darlit Glitch>

*A hand of shadow and darkness is placed on your shoulder*


-Ruby- *the fog disappears*
<Snipped quote by Heroic>

*The barrier does not move*
...

<Snipped quote by Balance>

*Licks Soren*
...
*The force does nothing to me*


*I phase backward before you can touch me*
<Snipped quote by Balance>

*Chuckles ominously*
...
*The wall becomes a toxic purple-black substance that traps you and begins to damage you*

<Snipped quote by Heroic>

*An aura of shadow redirects the beam to the sides of me*
...
*Grins with my mouth open*


-Ruby- *the substances loses all toxicity and stops damaging Soren*
-*the substance becomes mushy and I wade out through it*

<Snipped quote by Nimda>

*The encasing counteracts that force and funnels it such that it has nowhere else to go but through you*


<Snipped quote by Heroic>

*The barrier pushes it away*


-Ruby- *the force goes through a portal and comes out inside your barrier, against you*
<Snipped quote by Heroic>

*Opens my mouth once and closes it*

<Snipped quote by Balance>

*It stops within you and expands*


*I flicker and my projection disappears, but I am behind you, swinging a sword at you with exceptional speed*
<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

Except we very well can grasp how our own universe functions. You'd have to violate laws of logic and the autonomy of reason, which can only lead to the collapse of Existence, or at the very very least make our universe an anomaly, leading to a world of chaos and uncertainty where our characters couldn't even be communing. It would have to be on a different Scale for a significant number of universes with different physics to exist.

<Snipped quote by DarkwolfX37>

What about it?


This is my main objection to the whole "lots of universes with different alternate physics", yeah. Since all of Existence is one big place, it seems logical that it all must abide by the same logic. Otherwise, parts of Existence will have to become incompatible with the rest of Existence, because otherwise, things will break. Get a whole universe with totally different logic, and lots of bad things will happen.
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