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Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Archmage MC
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@Archmage MC
It wouldn't make sense with the official lore if he were to do that. The fat Majin Buu we know was caused by Super Buu absorbing the Supreme Kai, who lobotomized himself before being observed. This effectively reduced Buu to an infantile state, creating the happy stupid persona we're originally introduced to. The natural form of Buu is Kid Buu, and it's likely that anything of the same species would have a similar shape, or a completely different one based on what that Buu had absorbed.


Thats why you call Kid Buu a mutant. My explanation is to make DB Xenoverse make sense, which is something Toryiama really wants to bring into the actual lore.

I mean, Toryiama did the same thing and called Freeza and his family a mutant to make that race work in Xenoverse.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by thewizardguy
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@Savato

Multiple characters have claimed to be omnipotent without actually possessing the power to back up the claim. Thanos claimed to be omnipotent after retrieving the Infinity Gauntlet, but he was still weaker than the Living Tribunal, and far weaker than TOA. And in this case also many other sources claimed him to be omnipotent, or to possess infinite power.

Kaguya is most likely incredibly powerful, but there are no feats that would put her beyond planet buster. It's possible that she was able to draw from an infinite pool of chakra, but is only able to channel a certain amount at a time. Regardless, statements are no indication of a character being omnipotent, and if you're going to seriously debate her power you'd need to back her up with feats.
Hidden 8 yrs ago → 8 yrs ago Post by tex
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@Letter Bee Both, PM if yeh want em.

@Savato I think 'infinite' is very relative in that regard. It's more efficient to judge characters based on their feats rather than what is claimed, especially since the characters in Naruto are only going based of their own ability to actually sense her power, which would also only be a human example of trying to scale her.

If we use cross-dimensional logic, anyways.

Also, 'infinite power' doesn't quite equate to 'infinite output'

My character draws his power from the infinite void, but he can't exactly output it at the rate he chooses.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by thewizardguy
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@Archmage MC
So you're stating that Kid Buu was a mutant with a difference appearance who altered his appearance based on what he ate, and the altered appearance just happened to exactly coincide with the original form of his species? That's nonsensical bullshit, and I'm rather glad he chose not to introduce that to the DBS universe.

Calling the Frieza family mutants is also a weak link, and doesn't make much sense. Xenoverse as a whole is fairly nonsensical, and shouldn't be introduced to canon.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by dirty slime
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Again, even with Force-augmented senses, there's nothing there that would indicate he's near to lightspeed.

Precog allows them to dodge those attacks. And even if they could dodge those things in person with no precog, that's Mach 1000 at best, not even 1% of lightspeed. So really, not even close.

Both of his feats of mind control were performed over an extended period of time. Kaguya's feat was instant. Big difference. There's no indication he'd be able to replicate that level of mind-control in battle, and most of his encounters seem to show that he can't. His greatest combat TP feat is using TP to make people dizzy in combat.
His movement speed isn't FTL but his reactions are thanks to precog. And because of that he gets the Jump on characters who simply move faster than he does.

Even so, billions to trillions of sentients. Imagine all the mental prowess needed to hypnotize all those minds focused against a single target and said mental prowess can reach across several thousand lightyears, the fact that he wasn't said to be utterly strained from such feats means that it wasn't too hard for him to do, thus his TP/TK is so much more powerful than Kaguya's. And the people he used that against tended to be powerful force users themselves with significant mental defenses or he was merely toying with them.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Savato
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@thewizardguy She's only omnipotent to the extent of what chakra can do. She has infinite chakra (power) but also doesn't, because consistency died out at the end of the manga. That's it, never said she was capable of doing whatever she wanted with her endless power, otherwise there wouldn't have been an end plot.

@tex That's kind of what I meant. She's supposedly infinite in her chakra supplies (power), and while this was forgotten when she was in a superior form than her ugly fat form that had said infinite chakra, she suddenly had a limit. She can't makes the planet turn upside down or turn all of gravity into gravey. Well, she could make a dimension like that apparently but it'd also affect her negatively. But she can't apply to an already existing world no. So no, she doesn't have infinite output, I have no idea why anyone had this idea.

She can essentially do anything that's been done in Naruto, plus as Wizard said, pull out a planet buster, but has never been shown above that.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by thewizardguy
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@dirty slime
His reactions aren't FTL. Not even close. The best feat you were able to mention was precog-dodging a Mach 1000 attack (high-end estimate) while in a space ship. There's still nothing that puts him even remotely close to FTL, even with precog. And precog dodging means he was dodging the aim of the people firing the weapon, meaning it's a Mach 2-3 feat with precog (high-end estimate, again). Any being moving Mach 10 or faster would be able to easily adapt to that, meaning precog-dodging would no longer work because he'd be unable to move his body to keep up with what he knew what was going to happen, and the faster entity could adapt to any defence he could put up.

By comparison, high-end feats for Naruto put them in the Mach 20-50 range, with Kaguya at the top of that or beyond. Meaning she's 5x faster than the highest end estimate I could possible give the Sith.

Sure, but it takes time. And Kaguya was able to achieve a similar feat instantly. Considering Sidious' limited use of TP in battle, I'd say chances are he wouldn't be able to mind control Kaguya, especially as her mental defences and powers are probably well beyond anyone Sidious ever fought besides Luke.

Probably the only Sith who has a chance here is Vitiate.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by thewizardguy
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@Savato
Again, I'd say she can draw from an infinite 'pool', but is limited in her application. Chakra could hypothetically do anything, as just pouring more chakra into an attack increases it's destructive capability. But there's no indication she can do anything beyond planet busting.

But I think we're mostly in agreement here. Infinite mana pool, limited power of spells.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Gummi Bunnies
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Oh shit, I finally finished typing this big thing up. Well, it's not that big, but it ate up half of my computer class time. ^w^ And yes, these two characters go hand in hand with each other. Because duo characters.

Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Savato
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@thewizardguy In her Ten Tails form yeah. However when she was in her perfect form Black Zetsu clearly said she was 'low' on chakra after spamming some stuff. She didn't seem tired. It was all just very confusing at that final part.

Yes we are in agreement.

As for her reaction time, I just find it very difficult to evaluate in the final arc of Naruto. She's clearly superior to Madara, who in turn could manhandle someone as fast as Minato. I think most who watched Shippuden know how absurd his speed and reaction time were.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by UnlosingRanger
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The 9 tailed fox is also stated to have infinite chakra at one point if I recall.
The statment doesn't mean much because infinite is clearly not a thing in naruto.
Especially if all that is required is a moon sized seal.

As for Sora?
youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detai..
Does this look like a normal human?
Hidden 8 yrs ago → 8 yrs ago Post by dirty slime
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@dirty slime
His reactions aren't FTL. Not even close. The best feat you were able to mention was precog-dodging a Mach 1000 attack (high-end estimate) while in a space ship. There's still nothing that puts him even remotely close to FTL, even with precog. And precog dodging means he was dodging the aim of the people firing the weapon, meaning it's a Mach 2-3 feat with precog (high-end estimate, again). Any being moving Mach 10 or faster would be able to easily adapt to that, meaning precog-dodging would no longer work because he'd be unable to move his body to keep up with what he knew what was going to happen, and the faster entity could adapt to any defence he could put up.

By comparison, high-end feats for Naruto put them in the Mach 20-50 range, with Kaguya at the top of that or beyond. Meaning she's 5x faster than the highest end estimate I could possible give the Sith.

Sure, but it takes time. And Kaguya was able to achieve a similar feat instantly. Considering Sidious' limited use of TP in battle, I'd say chances are he wouldn't be able to mind control Kaguya, especially as her mental defences and powers are probably well beyond anyone Sidious ever fought besides Luke.

Probably the only Sith who has a chance here is Vitiate.


Pfffft... Vitiate. AKA: Sith Silver medalist. No matter what Bioware says or shows, he will never be as mighty as Palpatine since G-Cannon trumps EU. Sure he ate the souls of all those Sith Lords and ripped the planet they were on asunder, but that was during the time when there were many Sith, meaning that all that darkside energy wasn't fully focused upon him, just the largest concentration prior to the Baneite Sith, whom were capable of feats such as this without even trying. Sure he might have become a monster, but when comparing what Palpatine did during Dark Empire with his planetary surface/fleet wrecking force storms along with his constant draining of Byss' inhabitants over the years that enabled him to grow even higher in power; it's clear Valky won't win if the two come to blows.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Mtntopview
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@Saint Girralo

I think I'll wait till things slow down before I post
Hidden 8 yrs ago → 8 yrs ago Post by Lmpkio
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@Gummi Bunnies How powerful are light spears and resurrection stones? Rest of her looks good.

(I'm going to need a nutshell of what's up when I get home cuz I'm reaaaaally far behind... And I'm the GM ToT)
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by dirty slime
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@Gummi Bunnies How powerful are light spears and resurrection stones? Rest of her looks good.

(I'm going to need a nutshell of what's up when I get home cuz I'm reaaaaally far behind... And I'm the GM ToT)


Idolo escaped.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Lmpkio
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<Snipped quote by Lmpkio>

Idolo escaped.


Fuk.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Gummi Bunnies
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@Gummi Bunnies How powerful are light spears and resurrection stones? Rest of her looks good.

(I'm going to need a nutshell of what's up when I get home cuz I'm reaaaaally far behind... And I'm the GM ToT)


Oh, whoops. Well, from what I can recall, Light Spears are usually used to stun foes for a little bit, which gives you time to attack. As for the resurrection stones are practically the Elsword's version of a Max Revive from Pokemon. However, I could just tone it down to where it would only bring someone back with like... a quarter of life. Say, they come back, but majority of their injuries and wounds that caused the death will still be there. xD
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Lmpkio
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<Snipped quote by Lmpkio>

Oh, whoops. Well, from what I can recall, Light Spears are usually used to stun foes for a little bit, which gives you time to attack. As for the resurrection stones are practically the Elsword's version of a Max Revive from Pokemon. However, I could just tone it down to where it would only bring someone back with like... a quarter of life. Say, they come back, but majority of their injuries and wounds that caused the death will still be there. xD


Ah ok. Quarter revive will be equal. Add them in and she's accepted.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by thewizardguy
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@Savato
Personally I put her somewhere around Mach 50, but I only have limited knowledge on Naruto.

@dirty slime
All Sidious has is a statement that he's the most powerful. But Vitiate, by feats, annihilates him.

Sidious drained a planet over an extended period of time. Sidious instantly life-wiped an entire planet, including dozens of Jedi Masters and incredibly powerful Sith. He mind-controlled an entire planet's population at once, and unlike with Sidious, he does it instantly, and then makes the planet's population start killing one another. And he also mind controlled 8000 Sith at once, and performed another planet-wide lifewiping attack, although that one was a ritual. Vitiate's lightning was so powerful that Revan, a master of Tutanamis capable of absorbing lightsabers and lightning from elite Sith, was burned to a crisp just trying to absorb it. Vitiate was able to bare-handedly casually swat away the lightsaber of one of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, and broke the minds of Jedi masters with nothing more than a glance.

Sidious ain't got shit on Vitiate.
Hidden 8 yrs ago Post by Lmpkio
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@thewizardguy Darth Nillious says hi lol
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