[OOC] Pathfinder - Rise of the Runelords

[Ermine]

(For reference, I was not the friend mentioned by Lucius Cypher, to the best of my knowledge)

Also, while I was making a mystic, there are some rules issues I'm uncomfortable with (specifically no stated limit on maximum animus, making nonstop Blade Meditation not only viable, but BAAF (after 3 turns of using maneuvers without augmenting them with Wis 18, at level 1, blade meditation does 6d6 damage of your active element's damage to anything that attacks you, and that goes up every turn, if not every other turn, assuming you don't use animus and use swift action maneuvers (there's a great one to make an attack at a -2 penalty...and pretty sure you can move during blade meditation (even though it's a full round action), if it's anything like the other recovery methods.)

So I'll PROBABLY stay Harbinger or go Stalker. Assuming our GM is cool with them. Because I'm too bored with other melee (not much they can do but hit things) and casters are too OP (better used NOT hitting things even during combat). Or could go Aegis and just do ALL THE THINGS (except spellcasting, and not as well as others).

Edit: I need to type faster.
Maneuvers aren't any more powerful than spells (often less so at the same levels, with less versatility and power, and without a LOT of combat, less USE overall). I could go with one of the archetypes for another class, so fewer maneuvers and lower maneuver levels, if that helps. Only go up to level 6 maneuvers, and get a lot less.
Will say it's a lot to learn, but it's a lot easier when it's not all LONG FORM. Pretty intimidating. I actually hated Path of War content at first. Just like Shadowrun. ^~^ Now they're my favorites.

Err...edit2: I'm sure I could play a sorcerer just fine...:/ I know PoW's a lot to learn. And I guess Crimson Countess isn't exactly the best example of "PoW is weaker than magic"...

[Nytem4re]

@Ermine Well, I appreciate your effort, and am very grateful c: Though, lucky for us all, I managed to get in contact with someone thans to @Nytem4re! @Lucius Cypher is, in fact, my successor as GM and needs some time to look over the materials and sheets again but this should get rolling in a reasonable timeframe.

@Grey@Fubsy@Asura keep in mind, your sheets may require fixing as Lucius understands the system better than I do and may spot problems I missed. Though everything should be fine.
@Ermine, I hate to say this as the last thing to you, and so want to start off with - the concept for your character is really, really cool, and I appreciate that. I also appreciate all the links to help with my understanding. However, it's a little overwhelming to learn, and most of my research would indicate it might require altering NPCs within the campaign to better match the power level brought about by maneuvers. Which, if it were a homebrew campaign, would admittedly be a lot easier in the first place, since I would've created the NPCs and would know who might fit the class flavors best, and who deserves what maneuvers and who deserves the sudden power boost. Think there's anything on the Paizo website class-wise you might also like?

@RBYDark

Damn, took you long enough to give me some credit. Kidding.

[Ermine]

I guess playing as a Drow Noble is out? ^~^ (This is not a serious question. Going to outright say that. 41RP is a pretty significant power level increase).

Looking over my HUGE COLLECTION OF CHARACTERS (this is no exaggeration or overstatement) to see if I have anything more acceptable that doesn't require learning a new ruleset (or that doesn't require learning TOO much). Unless our new GM is more amenable, of course. In which case I'll play as a Stalker or something less...power-level-morally-grey.

[Lucius Cypher]

Well fortunately, the CS looks good so far. Nothing of any real issue. Just a minor thing however.

@Asura With a flat 10 int, you're missing one more skill point for your paladin. She should have a rank in at least two skills, but right now she only has one. Also a greatsword crits from 19-20, not 1-20.

@Fubsy With a Con of 15 and d12 hit die, you should have 14 HP not 15. You don't get the HP/Skill/Favor class bonus at level 1, only level 2 and every level afterwards.

@Grey Nothing of note so far, though I should explain to you that Deadeye Bowman only allows her to ignore soft cover provided by bodies in her way, like your ally standing in front of your shot or a hostage. Someone with soft cover from other things will not be affected by the trait.

Lastly, what did you guys do for your money and equipment? Usually I just go with 150 starting gold, which should be reflected accordingly in you character sheets. Otherwise I can accept players starting off with equipment that is over 150 within reason. Asura's character's equipment is already 200 GP (Greatsword is 50 gp and her Chainmail is 150), but if that's all she has then I can accept that. Generally speaking if it's under 150 you can have it, but anything else over that and I'll have to give it a look. I can't promise you that you'll get much treasure or money, so value what you got.

@Ermine I'd prefer not to use third party supplements. I can accept certain things on the individual basis, but for the most part I would shy away from any classes or archtypes that aren't from paizo.

[RBYDark]

@Lucius Cypher Oh that was me. I made them roll for gold.

[Ermine]

You don't get the HP/Skill/Favor class bonus at level 1, only level 2 and every level afterwards.

@Lucius Cypher

"Favored Class: Each character begins play with a single favored class of his choosing—typically, this is the same class as the one he chooses at 1st level. Whenever a character gains a level in his favored class, he receives either + 1 hit point or + 1 skill rank. The choice of favored class cannot be changed once the character is created, and the choice of gaining a hit point or a skill rank each time a character gains a level (including his first level) cannot be changed once made for a particular level. Prestige classes (see Prestige Classes) can never be a favored class."
Section 4 of the character outline (emphasis mine)

And you mentioned being okay with homebrew...but not 3PP. What? So untested is fine, but not perfectly acceptable stuffs? (I'll forgive if I can at least make my own weapon using the weapon building rules from the Weapon Master's Handbook (which IS from Paizo) and my own race using the race builder (also Paizo, from the ARG). Because I'm sure I could outdo anything from Dreamscarred Press using Paizo materials. (But really, will forgive it. I don't powergame, just saying I could easily enough without 3PP stuffs))

[Lucius Cypher]

Hmm. Different from PFS. Well never mind then @Fubsy.

Oh, and one more thing. While I certainly can wield my authority as a hammer, taking the duties as a GM seriously and what not, I will also humor you and joke around. I often make lewd comments and incorporate memes. I also enjoy seeing your failures and may mock you for it. All in all, I will do my best to have fun, and ideally you'll be having fun as well.

[Ermine]

Oh, expect a lot of failure from me. Last time I did this one, couldn't hit a single thing. AFTER mods, only got higher than a 12 (a nat 20 at that) on a friggin "walking a beam for a competition" roll. ^~^

I fail super hard.

Also, I just went with average gold, since the first post in this didn't say and I wasn't there for the Int Chk. So...I'll roll when I make another one. ^~^

(Edit, also I edited more in my previous post before you replied. Probably came across as bitchy. It was intended to sound more confused)

[Lucius Cypher]

@Ermine Homebrew means I've had a hand in understanding and creating it, and like I said I'm more stricter with homebrews anyways. When I said I'd introduce some homebrew, it's mostly minor gm fiat things like making quater staffs finessable and and making bucklers out of wood. Third party things are unfamiliar to me, and if you intend to use them then I'll need to aquatint myself with all of them. Because if I can be certain of anything, give a player an inch and they'll go a mile. You may not mean to power game, but I cover my bases nonetheless.

As for you creating your own weapons and races through the paizo's materials, that's still something I'll be making the final call for. Even if it's not exactly homebrew in the sense that you didn't make it up, it'd still fall under my definition of something that normally doesn't exist. Not that it can't, but I'll be looking it over anyways.

[Ermine]

When I use third party stuff, I share it first (even if I make a character, which is usually more sample of how I'd use it because I tend to go through characters super fast before starting any game. It's how I learn rules. Which is why I have no idea how to play GURPS at all...what game uses friggin' microjoules as a unit?). Notice I asked for permission and offered all the materials I used. AND was worried about moral grey areas in terms of power. I'm uncomfortable with power in general. ^//^

@Lucius Cypher If I go tiefling and take a variant ability (the rolled thing) to replace spell-like abilities, should I roll on here so I don't end up with +4 Int (in addition to regular ability score modifiers, and instead of darkness SLA) and have you not believe me? (Because it's happened before. Was awesome.)

[Lucius Cypher]

Even so, I would perter to not delve into third party materials beyond specific exceptions. Referencing third party books for things such as say, favor class bonuses for races who don't have them specified, sure. Bits and pieces maybe. But I'm calling the limit on third party classes.

Have enough of a headache learning about Paizo classes, especially the ones that are legitimately more powerful than third party materials. I would rather not have to wrap my head around third party stuff which aren't exactly any easier. For the sake of conveniences.

[Ermine]

Okay. Won't use any Paizo class that isn't way too powerful compared to the other classes we have.
So no mages except maybe witch or druid, the former of which is boring and the latter is...not even remotely interesting to me anymore.
Hmm...

[Lucius Cypher]

Use the rolls here if you would. Link.

[Ermine]

Saved me from having to find it again.
Dunno if I'll do that. May roll EVERY aspect of my character. That'd be fun. Ish. Assuming I rolled something interesting.

@Lucius Cypher Ooh. What about the Martial Training feat line? It's also Path of War and therefore third party, but it's ONE discipline vs a full class with 4-7 disciplines, only goes up to level 6 maneuvers and stances, and not a lot of them at all. Not that it would matter now, with first level characters, since I couldn't take it until level 3 at the earliest (which would, in turn, give you plenty of time to learn about it, but I'd at least want a tentative answer ("I'll consider allowing it" vs "AW HELL NAW") since it influences my weapon choice). And that's assuming I end up with the stats to even be able to get the higher levels of it. (And if it makes a difference, I'd probably go Elemental Flux if that makes a difference to you)

(legitimate curiosity, since it's not a huge thing, any more than variant multiclassing is)

Edit: Either yes or no (obviously preferably yes), I think I've found a character I'll use. I just have to make some minor adjustments since this one was made for a campaign and never got used. Never actually got finished. I hope you don't mind piecemeal armor...

[knighthawk]

Question: Tieflings have to take Fiendish Heritage feat in order to have alternate traits, but assimar do not, they may simply select the variant then roll for traits. Will you require the same or would you be willing to wave it as a 'feat tax'. The support of my question is that aasimar are merely the celestial occurance counterparts to tieflings so why would they effectively get a free feat?

[knighthawk]

Also, at this point, whi is still interested in playing? I haven't heard from the paladin or barbarian in a while.

[Lucius Cypher]

Question: Tieflings have to take Fiendish Heritage feat in order to have alternate traits, but assimar do not, they may simply select the variant then roll for traits. Will you require the same or would you be willing to wave it as a 'feat tax'. The support of my question is that aasimar are merely the celestial occurance counterparts to tieflings so why would they effectively get a free feat?

@knighthawk

For Aasimar any of the other racial traits they gain will replace their current spell-like ability. For the purpose of equality, I would say that Aasimars would have to take a feat similar to Fiendish Heritage, obviously adjusted for their celestial one. Celestial Heritage, as it were. Now mind you, this only applies if you want different Teifling/Aasimar abilities. You do not need to take the feat if you just want the variant heritage, like being a Div-Spawn or Angelkin. Like I told Ermine as well, do rolls here on the website so I can keep track of them.

[Ermine]

Saved me from having to find it again.
Dunno if I'll do that. May roll EVERY aspect of my character. That'd be fun. Ish. Assuming I rolled something interesting.

@Lucius Cypher Ooh. What about the Martial Training feat line? It's also Path of War and therefore third party, but it's ONE discipline vs a full class with 4-7 disciplines, only goes up to level 6 maneuvers and stances, and not a lot of them at all. Not that it would matter now, with first level characters, since I couldn't take it until level 3 at the earliest (which would, in turn, give you plenty of time to learn about it, but I'd at least want a tentative answer ("I'll consider allowing it" vs "AW HELL NAW") since it influences my weapon choice). And that's assuming I end up with the stats to even be able to get the higher levels of it. (And if it makes a difference, I'd probably go Elemental Flux if that makes a difference to you)

(legitimate curiosity, since it's not a huge thing, any more than variant multiclassing is)

Edit: Either yes or no (obviously preferably yes), I think I've found a character I'll use. I just have to make some minor adjustments since this one was made for a campaign and never got used. Never actually got finished. I hope you don't mind piecemeal armor...

@Ermine

@Lucius Cypher There's a question in here. I just edited it in too late. I'd expected it to be shorter.
I'm almost done with the character. Just need traits, a name, and a pic. Human underground chemist archetype unchained rogue. Who is obsessed with our fun-loving nun, but isn't exactly sure what she does.

Edit: Our paladin's in this thread. The adorableness of aasimar paladins draws me in (in a sexy way)

[Lucius Cypher]

You'll have to explain to me more about what exactly Martial Training and their maneuvers entail, as I imagine that they aren't the same as the fighting styles like Crane or Kraken. Also I now remember where I heard of Path of War and why I'm largely hesitant to consider it: it's basically Weeboo Fightan Magics and all that it entails.

So let me put it this way. Communicate with your fellow players, @Ermine, and coordinate with them. Last thing I'd like to have to deal with is everyone feeling pretty useless because one character has the chops to deal with most combat encounters, or forcing you to play support just so everyone else can pretend they know what they're doing. No one wants to have to deal or risk becoming That Guy. If you can convince everyone else about using the Path of War materials, then I'll work with it.

[Ermine]

@Lucius Cypher Makes sense it sounds like it; it's actually mentioned in there because DSP ported it to PF as Path of War. And since we don't have a wizard, I don't see the point in preventing anyone from taking something that's not even as good as one. Though I wouldn't, like they did, compare it to anime so much as video games, since it's basically identical to how skills work in Dragon Age for the warrior and rogue, what with there being their regular attack as normal, and then skills they can use. Yes, it's more "powerful" and versatile than base martial classes, but they're all basically just a weak (because magic is still stronger) magus with thematic differences that attempt to cover the weaknesses. It doesn't invalidate the core and base melee classes any more than having a wizard or sorcerer in the party does.

What is Democ- Err...Martial Training?

Martial Training is just "pick one discipline, get a tiny number of things from it. Take this six times and hey, you used six feats to get a lesser version of something archetypes have already but significantly worse." It's the Eldritch Heritage equivalent, only not as powerful, and you have to take it more times to get anywhere close, with around the same requirements (16-17 in whatever ability score minimum, and either take a useless skill X times (depending which level of the feat it is) or use your BAB (which actually makes fighters worthwhile)).

Hider

How would I use it?]IF I WENT WITH IT, here's a summary of what I'd do at each level (because I plan this all out way ahead; I have most of this character's future already planned, with or without this, and note that I do not have animus to augment these, so what I get is the base ability only, and the listed initiator level is assuming Int doesn't increase):

Martial Training I (Level 3, assuming I have 3 ranks of Knowledge (Martial) by then. Initiator level 3.):
Choose Elemental Flux discipline, get Spellcraft as a class skill, and use Intelligence as the initiation modifier (used in several abilities, but also, with this feat, affects your initiator level, which is 1/2 level + Init Mod, with a maximum of your current level. So with my Int of 18, the +4 bonus means at level 20, I'll count as level 14 (and until level 8, initiator level = level)). I gain the ability to switch between active elements (there's a monk archetype from Paizo that does this, too. They're pretty badass) with elemental flux (standard action to switch elements), which for this discipline affects my damage type and has different effects for different maneuvers and stances (swift action to enter a stance, and they work like styles, but have to take a feat to use both a stance and a style, and can never be in more than once stance at a time obviously). I can recover maneuvers by spending a standard action to recover one maneuver (all martial initiator classes can do this, but they also have much more useful methods to recover a lot more).
I'd take Fluctuation Movements and Variable Flux.
At this level, I can only ready one of my two maneuvers (meaning either spending 10 minutes to switch to the other one being readied, or a standard action to recover each time I use whichever one I have readied).

Martial Training II (Level 5. Initiator level 5.):
I'd take Elemental Strike, Arcane Shield, and Elemental Nimbus.
At this level, I can now ready two of my four maneuvers.

Martial Training III (Level 7. Initiator level 7.):
Lance of Power and Elemental Flux Stance.
I wouldn't trade any of my maneuvers at this level (I like the level 1 ones better than the level 2 ones).
At this level, I can ready three of my five maneuvers.

Martial Training IV (Level 9. Initiator Level 8.):
Eldritch Consumption and Assay Resistance.
At this level, I can ready four of my seven maneuvers.

Martial Training V (Level 11. Initiator Level 9.):
Elemental Absorption and Enter the Vortex (Note that I can't use maneuvers with the attack this stance lets me use).
I would replace Variable Flux with Arcane Torrent.
At this level, I can ready five of my eight maneuvers.

Martial Training VI (Level 13. Initiator Level 10.):
At this point, I do not qualify for the levels of maneuvers this grants (well, the maximum levels, anyway) without increasing my Intelligence on two of levels 4, 8, and 12. Without doing so, I wouldn't take this level of the feat. I probably still won't take it because more than half my feats is kinda a silly use, ja?

Some other stuff

If I don't go with everything I already have planned for the character, may variant multiclass something AND do Martial Training. So...no feats, but plenty of weak class features I could probably have better versions of just by doing regular multiclass.

Even without VMC'ing, it would make me the group magus, basically. Although while I was doing this, my brain was like "five levels of this is just variant multiclass, if I did it at levels 3, 7, 11, 15, and 19." Also, looking over what I have, there are some feats I already have that I don't want to get rid of. May only do 4 levels of it, and use BAB instead of the skill (meaning minimum levels of 4, 7, 10, 12, 15, and 18, respectively, for the six feats, and with them being feats, that's 5, 7, 11, 13, 15, and 19, and may take them later than that)

Some EXTRA stuff edited in (PAY ATTENTION~ This is more important!)

I hadn't really looked at higher levels of Elemental Flux. Based on what I saw though, I will concede that that particular one may be too powerful. Therefore, I will go with Cursed Razor discipline if I do it, in which case (listing planned level to take the feats and what effective Initiator Level my character will be without the Intelligence increases):

Martial Training I (Level 5, IL 5)
-Spellcraft (Int). Same as Elemental Flux in that regard. No active element (surprise~ ^~^). Discipline weapons (which I forgot to mention in the other thing, and they give +2 to DCs for maneuvers that require them) are heavy blades, light blades, and spears. Feat gives 2 maneuvers, for which I would choose Luck Shifting and Stutter Strike. I would primarily ready Stutter Strike.

Martial Training II (Level 7, IL 7)
-Feat gives 2 maneuvers and a stance, both up to level 2 (note: there are no level 2 stances in any discipline. Just found that amusing). I plan on taking Mockery and Word of Retribution for maneuvers (and keep stutter strike and word of retribution readied), and for stance: Aura of Misfortune (to help everyone else out).

Martial Training III (Level 13, IL 10)
-Feat gives a maneuver and a stance of up to 3rd level, and the option to switch out any maneuver for another maneuver of up to level 2. I would take Dogpile Strike and Touch of the Witch (-gasp-, NOT the third level one?! No. Because the third level one does nothing for me with only one curse strike). I would switch out Luck Shifting for Bad Karma. From here on, I would prepare Dogpile Strike, Mockery, and Word of Retribution, and primarily be in Touch of the Witch stance.

Martial Training IV (Level 15, IL 11)
-Feat gives two maneuvers of up to 4th level. I would take Persecution and Warlock's Stride. From here on, Aura of Misfortune for stance. Maneuvers prepared most of the time will be the same as before, plus Warlock's Stride.

Martial Training V (Level 17, IL 12)
-Feat gives two maneuvers, or one maneuver and one stance, of up to 5th level, and gives the option to switch out any maneuver for a maneuver of up to 4th level. I would take Aura of Shared Misery (the third level stance I skipped before) and Shadow Pin. Again, same as before for main maneuvers readied but with Shadow Pin. I would use the new stance primarily (but occasionally switch it out for the others, MAYBE).

Martial Training VI (Level 19, IL 13)
-Feat gives two maneuvers, or one maneuver and one stance, of up to 6th level, and gives the option to switch out any maneuver for a maneuver of up to 5th level. I would take Eye for an Eye and Oathbreaker's Aura stance. I'd not switch out maneuvers. From now own, the readied maneuvers would again be the same, but with Eye for an Eye, and would likely stay with Oathbreaker's Aura.

That last stance in Elemental Flux pretty much killed it for me. ^//^

Plus, character of choice:
Anne Deverin, Human, Rogue, mixes chemicals, tries to emulate what Ciara does, has no idea whatsoever what Ciara does.