[OOC] ▲ OVERWATCH: A New Era. ▼ (Overwatch Roleplay)

[Sodomite]

@Dead Cruiser
So, this character is unkillable, though if you destroy his body then a massive bomb goes off, he can control other omnics or machines and his ult has no counterplay aside from staying away from him? Not to mention he has radiation based abilities, meaning if he hits you enough times you're going to die and no one can save you, as there's no cure for radiation poisoning, unless Mercy's Caduceus Tech can? And even then, apparently the ultimate is unhealable.

I do want to ask a question, though: if your weapon and ult can bypass shields and armor, doesn't that make them both pointless? Once a person's health is completely gone, they can't survive on shields and armour. They'll be dead, but well shield and armoured. 0 HP is dead, even if you still have armour or shields, both in the game and according to common sense.

Honestly, the character is just incredibly unbalanced for a mainly Street level team fight style of game. I'm mean, look at the canon heroes. A lot of them just shoot laser guns, bows or revolvers. One only has a hammer. And then this character can kill anything with radiation and will level a city block if his body is destroyed.

Obviously it's up to the GMs to accept this or not, but in my view, this really flies in the face everything that Overwatch is about.

EDIT: His sheet also mentions that he was woken in 2042. The timeline for this version of Overwatch's present is 2017.

@Tominas
Well, aren't there only three Talon agents in the canon that we know of? Sombra, Reaper and Widowmaker. You're right, it will totally affect the team dynamics but it's not far from the source material.

[Solo]

@Tominas

Talon has a lot of foot soldiers! From inferring from canon, Talon had a chance to get exceptionally big after Overwatch was dismantled and destroyed. Their presence is worldwide. In the first comic, McCree's, the train isn't hijacked by any playable hero in the game, they're just talon agents!

So, even if Talon heroes are outnumbered, Overwatch only has heroes to account for, I'm assuming?

Plus, if you've read Ana's origin comic, Widowmaker took on an entire team of Overwatch agents and brought down a legendary sniper in the process with just one other person. Even if she got the drop on them, I think Talon can still hold their own (especially if they can one-up Overwatch on the information game, and Sombra gives them an even bigger edge on that).

@Caits

Oh! I forgot to respond. I'm glad you think so too. It was pretty much luck that I found him and that he fit McCree so well. <3 I'll be looking forward to McCree's interaction with everyone else, didn't he know Pharah when she was a kid? They might have hung out during McCree's downtime! Especially if McCree hung around Ana a lot.

Jack loves dogs, but he might avoid interacting with one. It makes getting one absolutely irresistible. And faking death tends to make a parent kind of... less than likable, haha. Reunions will be a sticky situation. I think Jack'll try to keep his identity a secret for as long as he can.

[Tominas]

@Solo
Oooooh, I'm not gonna lie, I hadn't thought about the potential for mooksquads until you really mentioned it. That honestly could change operations for Talon vs. Overwatch events... Though I really don't know exactly how this is gonna work? I'm new to the site and text-based rp more or less, so I'm excited to see how things pan out when we get started!

On a different note, I'm not really sure who has possession of Reaper, but from what I've seen he's kinda starting to look like a bit of a lynchpin for character development between Jack, Selena, Ziegler, and a few others. I am curious to see how the Talon team works together considering their wide range of personalities right now, not to mention that all the pre-existing agents(Widowmaker, Reaper, Sombra) seem to trend a bit abrasive.

[Solo]

@Tominas

I agree! It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. Exciting, too. :D And it's good to have you aboard! I'm new to the site, but I've been doing text-based RP (as well as MMO RP) for quite awhile. If you need any tips or anything like that, I'd be happy to help, just send me a PM! (Just don't ask me anything about the site other than how to work this formatting, because the latter's the only thing I've been able to figure out easily. Haha.)

Um, I know someone claimed him in the Interest Check for this roleplay, but that person hasn't been on in 4 days and their accounts also pretty fresh (their only post has also only been in the OW Int. Check too?). So, I dunno if the GMs of this RP are going to give the claim up to someone else because he seems vital to the RP - my assumption but I figured it's okay cause you made that inference too - or if they're going to wait on him? I'm assuming there's a limit to how long they'll be willing to wait without any word, at all?

[Dead Cruiser]

@Dead Cruiser
So, this character is unkillable can't be killed by destroying replaceable robot bodies, though if you destroy his body rupture his power core then a massive dirty bomb goes off, he can control exactly one other omnics or machines and his ult has no counterplay aside from staying away from him, just like D.va's ult? Not to mention he has radiation based abilities, meaning if he hits you enough times you're going to die and no one can save you, as there's no cure for radiation poisoning, except for every healer using advanced magic technology unless Mercy's Caduceus Tech can? And even then, apparently the ultimate is unhealable, like Ana's biotic grenade.

@Sodomite

That about covers that.

I do want to ask a question, though: if your weapon and ult can bypass shields and armor, doesn't that make them both pointless? Once a person's health is completely gone, they can't survive on shields and armour. They'll be dead, but well shield and armoured. 0 HP is dead, even if you still have armour or shields, both in the game and according to common sense.

@Sodomite

In the game, HP, Armor, and Shields all serve the same purpose: you're alive until you lose your last point. I intend to do the same thing here. Thus, if you have any armor or shields, Keseph can't kill you, but if you have a lot of armor, he can damage you faster than anyone else. We can justify this by saying that armor and shields provide a certain amount of radiation shielding, preventing him from killing you dead.

Obviously it's up to the GMs to accept this or not, but in my view, this really flies in the face everything that Overwatch is about.

@Sodomite

We are talking about the same game right? The one with a magic Buddhist robot, a talking gorilla, a cyborg ninja, and a girl with an APM of nearly 9000? I don't think I'm going too far off the reservation with a radioactive robot.

EDIT: His sheet also mentions that he was woken in 2042. The timeline for this version of Overwatch's present is 2017.

@Sodomite

Yeah I'm pretty curious about why this is. Honestly it makes the timeline completely screwy, since the Omnic Crisis was supposed to take place roughly 30 years before the setting of the game.

[MiddleEarthRoze]

@Dead Cruiser

I don't know enough about the games and whatnot to fully understand the powers he has or if he's OP or not, but I was curious about one thing; your character is going to have no allies or friends because of the way he is. All humans have to die, alongside any Omnics that work with humans (so... All the Omnics currently in this RP). You've essentially made a murder bot with no allies, and his main thing is killing humans. As there was no disclaimer in the OOC, none of our characters will be at risk of being killed off in this roleplay. So, what interactions beyond interal monologue and NPCs do you really expect your character to have, other than "Grrr, I'm insane and I'm going to kill you and rule the world." every battle before failing on the one threat he has?

Just a thought to mull over.

[Sodomite]

You know what, sure, let's do this.

- can't be killed by destroying replaceable robot bodies
So, he can't be killed by destroying his body, you'd have to kill all his bodies and then his AI which is Vishkar corporation's HQ, right? So to actually kill him, you'd have to break into one of the world's largest corporations, kill or incapacitate their huge numbers of security and then destroy the core, not even counting the Age of Ultron like challenge of finding every trace of his AI on the internet. As destroying the core is presumably happened during the Omnnic war and he's clearly still kicking. Not to mention the fact that every other character dies if you kill them, with the semi exception of Dva, but even then it's only a suit and she doesn't eject far.

- rupture his power core
So destroying his body wouldn't rupture his power core? Would an oddly specific weakness.

- massive dirty bomb goes off
You said it could "destroy a small house and irradiate a city block", so it's on a level with Dva's Ult, which we'll address in a minute, with the addition of radiation which, as pointed out, has no real world cure and you mention it can't be healed.

- he can control exactly one other omnics or machines
You say that like it's not overpowered. He can literally control other players "easily", as long as they use machinery or are omnics.

- and his ult has no counterplay aside from staying away from him, just like D.va's ult
Maybe you haven't played much Overwatch but there are dozens of counterplays to D.va's ult. Reinhardt can use his shield or charge it, Lucio can Ult or boop it away, Zarya can bubble, Roadhog can hook it away. With radiation that ignores shields and armour and can't be healed, there's no counterplay other than not be near it. It could potentially be hooked or booped, though you haven't mentioned the radius and that would still be death for whoever did the hooking or booping.

- except for every healer using advanced magic technology
Which you didn't mention or specify in your sheet, though you did mention that the radiation in the Ultimate is unhealable, which would lead one to assume it all is.

- the ultimate is unhealable, like Ana's biotic grenade.
Incorrect, Ana's grenade blocks healing for a very short time, it's not unhealable damage. It also doesn't bypass armour and shield.

- In the game, HP, Armor, and Shields all serve the same purpose: you're alive until you lose your last point.
Well, not exactly. You're alive until you lose your last point of health, as armour and shield always die first and all characters have some health under their shields and there's no canon hero who ignores either. You don't ever die from losing all your shields or armour as you'd always have a minimum of 1 HP underneath.

- We are talking about the same game right? The one with a magic Buddhist robot
Who throws lazer balls and does healing

- a talking gorilla
Who fires lazers or hulks out

- a cyborg ninja
Who throws shurikens and uses a dangerous sword

- and a girl with an APM of nearly 9000
This is sort of funny but doesn't really contribute anything to your point

- a radioactive robot
Who ignores all defences, deals unhealable damage, controls other heroes, doesn't die when beaten and can go off like a bomb.

One of these things is not like the others.

- I don't think I'm going too far off the reservation with a radioactive robot.
Yeah, here's where I assume you're intentionally missing my point. I made the point that your character is against what Overwatch's power levels stand for. All the heroes are on similar levels, though they obviously have different strengths. Rein will always beat Zennyatta in a physical confrontation but Zennyatta can heal and support his friends. None of them are glaringly more powerful than the others, if you accept that a man can be so good with a bow that he's at the level of Mecha pilot. But your character can kill anyone, control other heroes, ignores the main defence against damage and even if he was miraculously overcome, would just build a new body or reside in on the internet and/or Vishkar HQ.

- Yeah I'm pretty curious about why this is. Honestly it makes the timeline completely screwy, since the Omnic Crisis was supposed to take place roughly 30 years before the setting of the game.
On this, at least, we agree. I don't quite get why the GMs have chosen to move back the timeline but they have and they are the GMs.

My overall point is that no hero is comparable to yours in terms of deadliness or the ability to survive, not the way you've written him. I get the sense from your writing and briefly looking at some of your other sheets that this is deliberate and, well, whatever floats your boat. But being in any sort of conflict with this character would be pretty much pointless for, say, Mcree or Tracer, which rather makes the roleplay a bit boring.

[Jacobite]

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[Kaithas]

@Sodomite, @Dead Cruiser: I have a lot of the same concerns, though my notes on everyone's profiles are a little too snarky to be posted here : P

But my overall consensus on the abilities was that he had an Instakill for Omnics, Humans, and support tech, while having essentially an ultimate as a weakness, being unkillable, and having a weapon whose only penalty (not cutting through shields and armor) was not a penalty at all because he didn't have teammates that would be affected by armor still on an opponent who managed to live to get away.

I think something important to remember is that everyone else only has ONE LIFE in this RPG, versus the actual overwatch game where you can just respawn. That's crippling when the number of ways in which someone can instamurder you is at least threefold, if not more.

[Argetlam350]

@Caits Pretty much my aim with her. Main process making her was thinking along the lines of a few unstable minded villians from various forms of media.
I'll wait for full conformation before adding her to the CS page just in case. But even though not fully approved can't wait to start.

[Solo]

@Dead Cruiser

Since everyone seems to be doing it, I'll chime in and say that I think I had rightly had qualms about the character, along with @Jacobite, in the first place. But, I seem to not have the ability to post eloquent criticism on par with @Sodomite, so I'll just say that I'm not comfortable RPing with a character whose only purpose is kill player characters. Villains really require something more than simply 101 ways to murder the heroes. I intensely second the fact that playing against him is going to be boring. What's everyone gonna do? Die? If you're a human the radiations just going to kill you. If you kill him the blast and the radiation's going to kill you. If you're an omnic, he's just gonna make you kill yourself?

I also really don't see the logic in this "Doesn't affect armor and shields, so it won't kill you" thing? Like, what's the purpose of armor and shields if something's going to bypass it all to get to the fleshy bits? Might was well be fighting naked against the guy, if that's the point. And if something has only minor radiation shielding, what happens to the radiation that seeps in? Oh, right, that's going to kill you anyways. Either way you spin it, there's no escaping the guy.

This isn't okay and a lot of people already agree. And, at this point, we've all been reiterating everything. And I think @Kaithas puts it all together nice and bluntly:

But my overall consensus on the abilities was that he had an Instakill for Omnics, Humans, and support tech, while having essentially an ultimate as a weakness, being unkillable, and having a weapon whose only penalty (not cutting through shields and armor) was not a penalty at all because he didn't have teammates that would be affected by armor still on an opponent who managed to live to get away.

@Kaithas

[Lmpkio]

Yeah any character that relates to like radiation powers or something is a very sketchy one. I don't think he's gonna work with that Ult ability of his. Gonna have to agree with the majority here.

[Eisenhorn]

Well now, oversleep and all this happens? Got me some reading to do it seems.

[Tominas]

I feel like what's been said pretty much covers it, I'm just throwing my voice in with @Sodomite, @Solo, @Kaithas, @Lmpkio, and @Jacobite here. Right now we're all hitting that Daredevil level, and you kinda threw a Superman into the mix, comparatively speaking. If nothing else, the sheer number of people concerned should be a solid sign that something's probably a little off with the guy.

[MarshiestMallow]

@Caits Pretty much my aim with her. Main process making her was thinking along the lines of a few unstable minded villians from various forms of media.
I'll wait for full conformation before adding her to the CS page just in case. But even though not fully approved can't wait to start.

@Argetlam350

Mate.

Do not post anything in the CS tab. Vicier will do that.

[Argetlam350]

Got it okay then won't do that.

[Pirouette]

@Dead Cruiser

Since everyone seems to be doing it, I'll chime in and say that I think I had rightly had qualms about the character, along with @Jacobite, in the first place. But, I seem to not have the ability to post eloquent criticism on par with @Sodomite, so I'll just say that I'm not comfortable RPing with a character whose only purpose is kill player characters. Villains really require something more than simply 101 ways to murder the heroes. I intensely second the fact that playing against him is going to be boring. What's everyone gonna do? Die? If you're a human the radiations just going to kill you. If you kill him the blast and the radiation's going to kill you. If you're an omnic, he's just gonna make you kill yourself?

I also really don't see the logic in this "Doesn't affect armor and shields, so it won't kill you" thing? Like, what's the purpose of armor and shields if something's going to bypass it all to get to the fleshy bits? Might was well be fighting naked against the guy, if that's the point. And if something has only minor radiation shielding, what happens to the radiation that seeps in? Oh, right, that's going to kill you anyways. Either way you spin it, there's no escaping the guy.

This isn't okay and a lot of people already agree. And, at this point, we've all been reiterating everything. And I think @Kaithas puts it all together nice and bluntly:

<Snipped quote by Kaithas>

@Solo

Hi. I believe I have the answer to such a character. Wendy's EVA suit is designed for protection against stellar radiation and I see no difference here. Also, incredibly, it does take a lot of radiation to be lethal. Look up charts on background radiation. Workers in a Uranium mine or at Cherynobl can be exposed to a lot of radiation but there has been some calculations done to determine their allowances.

I don't know how much radiation that character can use so unless he is throwing half a lethal does in seconds, then there might not be a problem. Hell, I might even consider him underpowered depending upon amount of radiation thrown because if it is an Overwatch setting, the more dangerous part of radiation exposure, cancer, is probably curable.

Edit: But ignore me. I didn't read anything about the character yet.

[MarshiestMallow]

Okay.

I do like to avoid this sort of thing in the OOC, hence why I sent @Dead Cruiser a PM instead. I didn't want to make it seem like nothing has happened with this.

Thank you for your concerns-you've all quite clearly put all I wanted to say into words that late at night I just couldn't think of.

Ultimately, while I like the idea and think he is an interesting character, I won't be given my approval. I cannot speak for Vicier, but she did ask me to look through CS for any issues, and give my approval when required. And as it stands, with the current issues spoken about and as the character is now, Keseph does not get my approval. We also have to take into consideration the roleplayers willingness to change issues with their character, and so far we haven't see any of that here.

If you have a look at my CSS I've deliberately given my characters faults-well my OCs ones at least. All, perhaps, except Ceri. But Ceri has a handicap that isn't really seen in her abilities. I did this to a) give my characters room to grow and b) to ensure they aren't over powered.

With something like this, that's what we have to watch out for. For the simply fact it's not fun if there's something that always wins.

[Eisenhorn]

Well, by the time I could think of a way to put things to words, its already been done far better than I. So I'll spare the parties involved another rant and trust in the GM's. All I know is that said character would be able to drop ol' Ansgar real quick like, not from the radiation (Which I think shielding would completely negate, because of the interactions between particles and such, working off old memory on the subject so could be completely wrong) but from getting his Life Support hacked and converted. Which would be a terrible way to go. Then again, not sure how a Sombra hack would effect it too, so its good food for thought, definitely.

[Dead Cruiser]

I sure do like being jumped with five notifications when I get get home from work. For the sake of my own sanity, I'll be carrying on this discussion with the GMs exclusively.