[OOC] Fallout: Vancouver

[c3p-0h]

How about a faction trying to go back to the "old ways" of governing? Democracy didn't work out and lead us to war, so maybe falling back on a monarchy/feudal system?

Or alternatively, having a select few with power is too risky and so they just go straight to communism.

Idk, just throwing out ideas.

[Kingfisher]

How about a faction trying to go back to the "old ways" of governing? Democracy didn't work out and lead us to war, so maybe falling back on a monarchy/feudal system?

Or alternatively, having a select few with power is too risky and so they just go straight to communism.

Idk, just throwing out ideas.

@c3p-0h

On one hand, the hatred of communism is so deep-rooted in the 'muricans of fallout land that they might reject it completely, on the other it HAS been over a solid two centuries since the great war, so I suppose its entirely plausible that most folks wouldn't even know what communism is, and would lap up some sweet sweet socialism.

The idea of a feudal faction sounds cool. Some kind of Kingdom, expanding out into the frozen wastes.

[Korbanjaro]

Hmm... Well, slavery is always a useful tool for bad guys. (I've always wondered how The Railroad would react to groups that are enslaving people instead of Synths, but F4 decided not to deal with that moral quandary, I guess, which could be interesting.)

But slavery is always an indication of strength and power exercised over the weak. It's a manifestation of the strong/smart/clever displaying their superiority by physically imposing their will upon those whom they view as their lessers. The slaver sees himself as simply "better" than those who are enslaved, and thus it is the slave's "destiny" to remain such, serving those "in charge."

Any faction based on slavery must necessarily lack in humanity, else the zealousness of the faction's members won't make sense. For the Legion, their warriors essentially compete for upper rankings by their combat prowess. The strongest are leaders because they "deserve" to be, as shown by their sheer strength. Such is why the Khans in the Mojave, or at least their leadership, found Caesar's tenets so attractive.

If we were to "reformat" our Khan off-shoot into a group dedicated exclusively to social darwinism, a group that jacked themselves up on custom chems, increasing their strengths regularly beyond that of normal humans, they could be a force to be reckoned with, using their strength to absolute conquest instead of simple survival. Knowing of the formidable factions in the former United States, they instead have been growing in the Canadian "heartland," taking over settlements as they go, and forcing them to submit.

They have enhanced themselves with chems to the point that their warriors can go toe-to-toe with Supermutants and even BoS Paladins in power armor, dishing out physical damage that should break a normal person. Perhaps they wear "Bane Masks" of their own (or some other kind of device) which delivers chems at precise doses to increase strengths and reaction speeds?

In this kind of group, scientists and doctors would also be highly-valued, in order to provide stronger chems which in-turn would create stronger warriors. Thus, they could be kidnapping scientists and intelligent individuals for this purpose, which provides other narrative entry.

TL,DR -

Turning a Khans off-shoot into Bane-esque chem maniacs who utilize might to subdue any foe.

[c3p-0h]

I think the strong prewar hatred of communism could actually make it more interesting. I mean, we know there's gonna be a significant Chinese population there, and Canada was getting pretty mad at the US after the whole Alaska debacle. I think a communist faction popping up either out of Chinese loyalism or anti-America spite wouldn't be too out there. And plus I think there could be some people who genuinely think communism is the only way for a society to survive somewhere as unforgiving as the wasteland. It takes so much, we have to share what we have.

It'd certainly be a polarizing faction, that's for sure. But we totally don't have to go with it. I'm just spitballing, and honestly don't know all that much about fallout lore.

[Korbanjaro]

<Snipped quote by c3p-0h>
On one hand, the hatred of communism is so deep-rooted in the 'muricans of fallout land that they might reject it completely, on the other it HAS been over a solid two centuries since the great war, so I suppose its entirely plausible that most folks wouldn't even know what communism is, and would lap up some sweet sweet socialism.

The idea of a feudal faction sounds cool. Some kind of Kingdom, expanding out into the frozen wastes.

@Kingfisher

This sounds really interesting, actually. A feudal "kingdom" that has been quite established, with its own royalty and nobility over the past two-hundred years. (Shoot, we could even use the power-armor guys as actual "knights" for this little kingdom, with their own sense of honor and loyalty to "The Crown.")

Such a monarchy would certainly provide stability, and would be wholly unique. Plus, the idea of using power armor differently than simply the Enclave or the BoS seems interesting to me. (Not counting the Atom Cats, of course.)

With all the leftover hardware that surely would have been flowing through the area during the Sino-American War, this new kingdom in the North surely would have had access to a ridiculous amount of hardware and resources over the years, so establishing this kind of thing in a place like BC isn't too far-fetched.

Thus, when a new force of "invaders" arrives on the scene, this sets the stage to upset balance in numerous ways, and we could start playing the groups off of one another with our characters bouncing off them right in the middle.

[Korbanjaro]

I think the strong prewar hatred of communism could actually make it more interesting. I mean, we know there's gonna be a significant Chinese population there, and Canada was getting pretty mad at the US after the whole Alaska debacle. I think a communist faction popping up either out of Chinese loyalism or anti-America spite wouldn't be too out there. And plus I think there could be some people who genuinely think communism is the only way for a society to survive somewhere as unforgiving as the wasteland. It takes so much, we have to share what we have.

It'd certainly be a polarizing faction, that's for sure. But we totally don't have to go with it. I'm just spitballing, and honestly don't know all that much about fallout lore.

@c3p-0h

Oh! Let's not go European with the kingdom, but Chinese instead. Thus the kingdom was formed around an "Emperor," and he has his warriors to defend him. They have conquered the northwest but have not pushed south.

[Lord Coake]

@KorbanjaroThe Railroad tells the FO4 PC several times that the lives of Synths are more important than any person, so I doubt they would be focused on saving humans from slavery.

[Korbanjaro]

@KorbanjaroThe Railroad tells the FO4 PC several times that the lives of Synths are more important than any person, so I doubt they would be focused on saving humans from slavery.

@Lord Coake

This is true, but there's a context to be kept in mind with that - In the Commonwealth, there are not slavers who traffic in human "goods." This situation is not even part of their purview, especially considering their proximity to The Institute. The closest thing to traditional slavery that they would have contact with would be The Pitt and Paradise Falls, both of which are thought to be resolved by the time Fallout 4 rolls around. (I don't know what the "canon" choices for both those situations are in the Fallout Universe, however I assume they are meant to be resolved by the player as "slavery is bad, so put a stop to it.")

If The Railroad suddenly found themselves dealing with not only The Institute, but also Caesar's Legion grabbing up their agents, I can imagine that priorities might start to shift, considering their loyalty to their agents and predilection towards retribution.

It was a moral situation that would prove interesting, either forcing a paradigm shift of sorts to maintain a moral high ground, or damning them characteristically to being basically being as single-minded and thoughtless as any other faction without a conscience.

[Legion-114]

@Korbanjaro

Accepted.

Also I had planned for the Enclave to be one of the main 'Big Bads', which you can decode their plans through special events that I've set up.

Can I make my guy a Raider?

@Catchphrase

Yes you can.

[Lord Coake]

Also I had planned for the Enclave to be one of the main 'Big Bads', which you can decode their plans through special events that I've set up.

@Legion-114

Fitting since IIRC they're supposed to have a major holding in annexed Canada and Alaska.

[Kingfisher]

<Snipped quote by c3p-0h>

Oh! Let's not go European with the kingdom, but Chinese instead. Thus the kingdom was formed around an "Emperor," and he has his warriors to defend him. They have conquered the northwest but have not pushed south.

@Korbanjaro

How does the Empire of the Shattered Sky sound to everyone?

@Korbanjaro

Accepted.

Also I had planned for the Enclave to be one of the main 'Big Bads', which you can decode their plans through special events that I've set up.

<Snipped quote by Catchphrase>

Yes you can.

@Legion-114

Just me brainstorming;

The Enclave could rock up on the scene to try and stamp out the empire, given how a faction built upon old world values would detest anything vaugley chinnese. Then the players would be caught between a rock and a hard place, in the form of two immensly destructive super-powers flinging their atomic shit at each other.

[Legion-114]

The Enclave will be establishing their control, as well as staging their coup within the NCR. They have also been playing with their FEV a little bit, but perhaps in a more 'friendly' way. But you'll have to find that out :P

[Korbanjaro]

@Kingfisher

This I like. Tin-Da-Sui, or "Sky Hit Broken" would roughly be the translation. The Empire of the Shattered Sky. Very cool. Possibly Tinsui by slang?

And with the Enclave encroaching, especially if they were adamantly after some kind of mcguffin that the Empire had in their possession, that would provide plenty of things for the characters to deal with.

HOWEVER, I would say that it would have to be some kind of initial catalyst that brings the Enclave's attention. Perhaps the Tinsui create some kind of new weapon? (The idea of stealth power armor suits crossed my mind, but that doesn't quite seem to have enough "oomph.") Perhaps one of the Tinsui agents were discovered attempting an infiltration of the Enclave Oil Rig, and spilled the beans about the mcguffin?

There are numerous things to get things moving, but it seems like if the goal of the Enclave was just simple "decimation" of the Tinsui, they would have attempted it long ago before the Empire actually became a faction worth calling an Empire, you know?

I think this is really interesting. I'll keep my chem-Khans faction in reserve for now, if we can use it later, but Empire VS Enclave sounds really cool.

[Kingfisher]

@Korbanjaro Perhaps the Tinsui have a got a nuclear submarine up-and-running? This would not only introduce the possibility of colonizing other countries, but also nuking the hell out of people.

To me, that sounds like sufficient motivation for an invasion.

[Kingfisher]

Oh and, as to how the empire could have come about; perhaps there was a giant concentration camp hidden away in Canada? Towards the build up to the war, Vault Tech and the US government were not only locking away communists, but also people of Chinese descent.

When the bombs fell, the camp could've fallen into a state of disrepair and the inmates, now very much anti capitalism, could have repurposed the facility as a sort of base. Fast forwards two centuries, and you have the Tinsui.

[Korbanjaro]

Or if they cannibalized the sub and finally set off a working nuclear test fire from inside their Imperial Fortress? Such an initial test fire would bring the attention of just about any notable faction within range. This would also mean that the Enclave (and the BoS/NCR/anyone-else-we-feel-should-be-there will have to be tactical in their approach instead of just simply going into all-out war, because they won't be sure what kind of nuclear capabilities the Tinsui will have.

Thus, a powerful threat with plenty of unknowns, which allows lots of room for our characters' differing motivations.

[Korbanjaro]

Oh and, as to how the empire could have come about; perhaps there was a giant concentration camp hidden away in Canada? Towards the build up to the war, Vault Tech and the US government were not only locking away communists, but also people of Chinese descent.

When the bombs fell, the camp could've fallen into a state of disrepair and the inmates, now very much anti capitalism, could have repurposed the facility as a sort of base. Fast forwards two centuries, and you have the Tinsui.

@Kingfisher

Oh man! An internment camp Vault? That sounds EXACTLY like one of Vault-Tec's ideas. "What if communism really IS the answer?"

So the Tinsui built their Empire on the foundation of their vault, and then surviving Chinese sub crews and soldiers in and around Alaska have made their way to Vancouver. Because of the squabbling in Mojave and Southern California, no one really noticed until now, when the Empire has shown nuclear capabilities.

[Legion-114]

@Kingfisher@Korbanjaro

I think you boys have missed something that I put in the little prologue :)

[Korbanjaro]

@Kingfisher@Korbanjaro

I think you boys have missed something that I put in the little prologue :)

@Legion-114

Can you clarify what you're referring to?

While I do recognize that you want to be all mysterious with these Enclave messages - I understand that. But the overall setting and motivations for the characters beyond simply "there are secret things coming" are important to determining setting and faction motivations for being here.

Strong characters cannot exist in a vacuum, they are a product of personal choices which come about due to their circumstances and history. Those circumstances, including social, environmental, and personal ones, will impact the characters, and by extension, the story as well. Well-defined characters are those that make difficult choices, and suffer difficult consequences. Because of this, the setting matters.

Are you saying that you don't like the Empire idea? Do you have something else in mind? It'd be good to have a kind of roadmap laid out before we start down the path, so that we aren't all going in five separate directions.

[Legion-114]

@Korbanjaro

I do like the idea :) And I believe the name of the empire to be rather fitting if you read the last part of the second paragraph. I don't want to give too much away right now, but once you read between the lines, you'll be like "Ohhh...."