BBeast

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

@Cyclone

Re: Ages

Okay, so let's see if I've got this: Ages have rough time-scales, which already establishes what is and isn't reasonable to an extent. The progression of Ages shall be established via rough player consensus, built from OOC discussions as much as IC events. Ages constitute a set of recommendations rather than strict restrictions.

This seems decent. We can work with this.

I have a mechanical effect to suggest: bonus Might which is specifically to be spent on things pertaining to the Age. We still give out enough Might for players to do what they want to do, but they have extra to do what the GMs want them to do too. In-game, it is easier to make things which fit in with the current state of the world, which is mechanically reflected by not consuming the Might you would use for other tasks.

As for the Age of Creation, I'd suggest that this Age is a perfect time for populating the world with (mundane) flora and fauna, under the caveat that the terrain would likely still shift around (so it would indeed be safest to wait until the end of that Age to create life if they rely on particular habitats). We want there to be a full global ecosystem before we start trying to add monsters and civilisations.

Re: Power level

I still prefer leaning towards 'powerful'- rarely does one get the opportunity to play god, so if you're going to do it you may as well go all out. However, I concede that a lot of the mythologies from which Divinus draws inspiration do tend towards more limited gods.

We should figure out what a reasonable base level of power is for gods in this new Divinus.

• A god has the power to travel between Spheres. This travel won't necessarily be instantaneous, but gods will possess means which allows them to travel between Spheres in a manner much more easily than a mortal could. How this manifests would be dependent on details of the Spheres which will probably only emerge once we begin play. On this matter, I would suggest that a god can freely, easily and quickly travel to and from their own Sphere, but that would come under Sphere powers (a god is probably also much stronger within their own Sphere, but that's a separate discussion).
• A god wields enormous creative power, literally shaping reality to their will. Inter-Sphere travel is something specific to New Divinus; the power of creation has been the hallmark of gods for all iterations of Divinus and allows players to freely world-build. I would caution against restricting gods to only be able to make things pertaining to their Portfolios, as this would remove this freedom and make it difficult to diversify to new Portfolios.
• A god is overwhelmingly more powerful than any mortal. Gods are also immortal and generally cannot be harmed by natural phenomena. The only thing which should be strong enough to personally threaten a god is another god or their divinely enhanced proxies (e.g. Heroes), and the latter requires some strongly skewed odds. This does not mean gods are omnipotent, but gods should be able to trump mortals in everything they do.

These three points are at the core of what I think are important characteristics for gods in Divinus (well, the latter two anyway; the first point is important only for this particular cosmology). If you have objections now would be the time to speak, because it is no use trying to iron out the details when we are not on the same page.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

@Cyclone@Double Capybara

Re: Ages

Ah, you're right. My idea makes it more of a game of Sid Meyer's Civilisation with rather rigid technological progression rather than something to sculpt interesting histories from. Looser thematic Ages rather than technological Ages may work better (obviously, technologies can be the theme of particular Ages- I strongly suspect that the emergence of metal-working will warrant its own Age).

But we should still think about how players can direct what the next Age will be. If we go 'you can only do things within the confines of the current Age', then no in-world actions shape the course of history and we'll be stuck in the same Age forever; that or GM fiat decides the course of history, which runs against the grain of Divinus. If we go 'you can do whatever and that will decide what the next Age is', then the concept of Ages becomes meaningless. So what is the mechanical effect of Ages?

Re: Portfolios

Permitting Portfolios to be traded (both willingly or under duress) seems like a good idea.

Re: Abilities

In Mk 2, we have used levels to represent the general power level of a god and the extent of their abilities. Portfolios provide dominion over particular themes for their creative powers but are generally only tangentially related to their personal abilities. As such, if we are doing away with levels, it makes sense to replace it with acquiring special abilities using Might.

We would still require a standard set of abilities for all gods. I would lean towards more power rather than less, since Divinus gods are meant to be powerful. We can take some of the most powerful standard abilities from Mk 2 and make them suggestions for purchasable abilities. We also need to consider the power level of these abilities. If we make default gods too weak, then everyone will be spending all their Might on levelling up rather than creating things. If we make the acquirable abilities too weak, then gods in general will be too weak. If we make acquirable abilities too strong, then it could get unbalanced.

Although, perhaps Godspeed's model for Hero Items and Divine Items can be extended to abilities in general, whether they be tied to an object or an innate part of an individual. The vague power outlines given for divine objects seems to work reasonably well, so we can use that system. This also removes the complexity of building a whole new system.

Over levels, this has a benefit of making power progression much more customised. As Capy pointed out, the power Xos wields for being Level 9 and the power Ilunabar wields for being Level 9 are completely different. The numbers suggest that Ilunabar should be able to beat most of the pantheon in a fight, but how the character has developed says otherwise. Progression by ability acquisition instead of abstract levels solves this paradox.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

I like the idea of Ages. The time window in Mk2 was a jury-rigged solution which was tacked on, although it has stopped people from getting too carried away and running off centuries ahead of everyone else. Implementing it from the start and giving it more mechanical and narrative weight should make it work better.

As for how it should work with technology, I have some thoughts. Ages describe what the general state of the world is, including the general level of technology which is widely available. However, we must consider how to determine what the next Age will be. The Ages should be able to be driven by player choices as with every other aspect of world-building in Divinus. Thus I propose this: Gods can spend Might to develop and share technologies (and social constructs) which are one step more advanced than the current Age. These advanced technologies stay relatively localised until the next Age. When the next Age comes about, the GM(s) will consider what has been invested in for the past Age to determine the theme for the next Age. These previously localised advanced technologies would then become widespread as the Age ticks over. The progression of an Age will also automatically fill in important technologies associated with the previous Age which have been overlooked by the gods (for instance, when we went from Stone Age to Bronze Age here in Mk 2, no one had bothered to explicitly invent agriculture despite it being very important for a sedentary lifestyle, yet it was generally assumed that towns just worked). This scheme allows for players to organically direct the progression of history and also allow for limited technological disparity between locations (which is historically common). Power and epoch gaps are controlled by only allowing civilisations to learn technologies which are no more than one step more advanced than the current Age.

As an example, consider game-play during the Stone Age. The widespread technologies involve stone tools, fire, pottery, crude fabrics such as hides, hunter-gatherer societies, and tribal social structures. A god (or group of gods) could decide to teach a particular tribe agriculture, bronze working and monarchy, allowing for the establishment of the first city. Another tribe might be blessed with simple shamanic magic. However, iron working or alchemy would be more than one step away from the Stone Age so are not valid to be taught to a civilisation during the Stone Age, even if that particular nation had already developed bronze working and cities. A god could still gift a mortal with a suit of steel armour or create a single individual able to create miraculous concoctions, but these would be singular and mighty individuals with techniques which could not be reproduced by mortals for generations to come. When it comes time for the next Age, the technologies which had been invested in during the Stone Age would become widespread, such that bronze working and city building becomes available everywhere. This does not mean that every location will use every technology, but those technologies become fair game. If the players had invested heavily in technologies we would associate with the Bronze Age, then we would declare the next Age to be the Bronze Age. But if the players invested more heavily in something else, such as magic for instance, then we might have the Age of Awakening, to reflect the 'awakening' of magical talent in many mortals across the globe. Although, really, the name for the Age is mostly arbitrary because the principle technologies associated with that Age have already been decided. When the Age advanced, we also fill in any gaps in the tech tree (so to speak), such as if we had developed towns and cities but forgotten agriculture or construction, or developed metal working but forgotten mining.

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Levels. I agree that levels are somewhat superfluous. We had identified issues with Mk 2's handling of levels when creating Godspeed. And as you observe, Godspeed's handling of levels led to everyone having fairly similar levels of power. I would support doing away with levels and instead having MP generation tied to the Age (plus generation from Holy Sites). Levels were a rather abstract concept. Front-loading Might into the first few turns also makes a lot of sense.

However, there are two functions of levels which cannot be so easily done away with. One function of levels was to provide a cap on the number of Domains and Portfolios you can have. Although you are changing the Portfolios system somewhat, you still spend Might to acquire them. One option is to have a cap which scales with the Turn number instead of level, which prevents people from gobbling up Portfolios too quickly as they are quite powerful. Another option is to remove the cap altogether and just hope that the Might cost of acquiring new Portfolios is enough to keep them in check.

The other function of levels is to provide some transition from being a demigod to being a fully-fledged god. Mk 2 has made ascension almost impossible within the lifetime of the RP for demigods by sticking the transition point at a level so high that not even the gods have approached it. To address this, Godspeed did away with the formal distinction altogether and just made a two-tiered power system with a transition at around level 3, which was much more manageable. However, if we have no levels, then we have to find a new solution, one which gives new players a relatively brief probationary period as demigods while still allowing them to ascend without waiting too long.

This transition could be tied to Spheres. A new god/demigod introduced part way through the RP would not have a Sphere to call their own. A demigod would have the creative powers of a god, but not necessarily at the same strength, and they would not gain the benefits of Spheres or the ability to freely travel between Spheres.The mark of ascension to full godhood would be creating or binding to a Sphere. But they can only do this if the Architect of the Spheres, or maybe some of the existing gods, grant them this privilege. The demigod must prove themselves down on Galbar. On the meta level, if the player shows that they can play nice, we let their character ascend (picking either a suitable god or the Architect to sponsor them in-character). We could make the standard probationary period about one Turn- too long and they might get bored; too short and the character's entrance would be jarring (one Turn is just a suggestion and could need tweaking. Maybe two could be better. It depends on how the RP paces). The player may elect to stay a demigod for longer if they wish, but the option for them to ascend would be there. The process of appeasing potential divine sponsors (and gaining favours from demigods) would also add an interesting layer to the pantheon politics.

The other option is to do away with a probationary period altogether and make all players fully fledged gods from the moment they join, regardless of when they join. This significantly lowers the barrier for new players, making it easier for them to join. However, narratively this could be quite jarring, for gods shouldn't just appear out of thin air, and the children of gods shouldn't immediately equal their parents in power. And at the meta level it increases the disruption caused by a player who arrives, makes one or two posts, then leaves. With demigods, such a player would have only a minor impact on the global narrative in their first couple of posts so their lack of commitment won't cause too much trouble. If they started as fully fledged gods, they'd potentially create an entire Sphere and build half a civilisation before disappearing, leaving global plot threads dangling. A probationary period allows us to filter out those who aren't committed or who decide that Divinus isn't for them.

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I agree with Capy's sentiment that we should emphasise that all civilisations are fair game for all gods to interact with.

As for hot-spots, I believe these will develop naturally so we have no reason to codify such a concept.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

@Frettzo, over the course of such a long roleplay (it's been almost 3 years), it is not surprising that some of our motivations shift and what we find fun to write changes. We've all grown attached to our stories and characters so we will surely remember the stories we have shared for a long time to come. I'm sure you'll find a new character to play which sparks your interest. You are always welcome here and in Divinus's to come.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

Thoughts on using a wikia as the mandatory spot for all sheets, to aid in organization? Our character section for every Divinus has been an absolute mess and Capy might be on to something here.

@Cyclone

Using the Wiki from the start would probably help enormously with organisation. A post-hoc attempt to build the wiki was fraught with challenges and holes, but if we start from the beginning then it should be achievable, especially if we only require people to make a one-sentence page when they make things rather than asking for a whole sheet up front.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

To start with, I'm of the opinion that it's high time we took a collective dive into the deep end and made a Divinus in the Advanced RP section. This is basically the opposite approach of what was done with Godspeed some time ago, so I'm interested in seeing how it might turn out differently.

@Cyclone

Let's be honest, Divinus has always been an Advanced RP and we've just been kidding everyone that it was Casual.

Another idea I had to differentiate it from past Divinus RPs was to bunker down bigtime on the mythology, magic, and divine aspects. Basically I'd canonize the metaphysics as being more or less completely Aristotelian; the universe would be composed of a series of numerous concentric spheres and would be Galbar-centric. With Galbar as the middle sphere, there'd be upper 'Celestial' spheres with the stars and such embedded into them, as well as 'lower' spheres that might contain an underworld and the like.

@Cyclone

This reminds me of something Logos said a while back.

"Were our influence to remain bound to one sphere, the expanse of reality would have been considerably... less."

The spheres are a cool idea which really reinforce the mythic themes of Divinus. However, the primary effect is centering the focus on Galbar. In the current iteration, the only thing special about Galbar is that we've decided to make it special. But we've been having issues with people just nicking off to the far side of the Universe, which can be problematic as we now have people playing by themselves rather than with everyone else. By literally making Galbar (or whatever we eventually decide to name the world) the center of the universe, we don't need to contrive a reason for people to stay on Galbar, and we also won't have people getting distracted by an infinite number of worlds to inhabit. This is a good thing.

Anyways, the concept of the spheres would tie in to the nature of divinity and the powers of the gods. ...

Given the much greater emphasis on personal planes by lieu of this concept of spheres, I am tempted to make modifications to the Domain(Portfolio) system. Specifically I find myself tempted to say that 'Domains' as we call them are no longer necessary; I could rename Portfolios to something more like Foci. A god could then take completely unrelated Foci, like Horses, Earthquakes, and Seas (a la Poseidon). Though you wouldn't start with one, our notion of 'Domain' could perhaps be renamed to Cluster. Taking multiple closely-related Foci like Volcanoes and Forges would give you a cluster over that sort of thing, in this case Fire. Having the cluster of Fire would imply some level of mastery and control over all things Fire-related, even if they aren't technically Foci.

@Cyclone

I'm still partial to the name 'Portfolio'. It accurately describes what it is: the range of specialised skills and abilities you have acquired.

From what I gather in what you're describing, 'Domains' as we call them are superseded by the Sphere you bind yourself to/affiliate with, correct? This seems to be natural. Your Sphere describes where you are most powerful and gives a general theme (although not restrictions) to your power.

Clusters seem interesting. The concept might need some refining, but I think there's something workable there.

I would have a figure that I'll nickname 'the Architect of the Spheres' as the informal leader of the pantheon.

@Cyclone

This works nicely, especially for setting up such a specific and structured cosmology before the players arrive.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

@LokiLeo789

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

@Vec The list of gods is shorter than it used to be. That got me in the feels a little.

Also, Teknall has two L's.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

@Vec Timeline-wise, you actually aren't that far behind. Most people are somewhere between 5 and 20 years Post-Realta (the exact timing hasn't been pinned down), with Xos' appearance, the elemental civil war, Conata searching for her father, and more.

For some specific dates...

Gerrik Far-Teacher is at 14 PR.

Yorum is at 12 PR.

Vetros is still stalling around a few months PR.

Mesathalassa is furthest ahead, with Capy having written events up to 63 PR, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

Mid/High Casual - Divinus: The Deity Roleplay Mk.II

So, how's everyone going?

I've got 36 days until my Honours _{(basically a 1-year Masters)} thesis is due, so that's where I'm at.