Chrononaut

Lets talk about JonTron and his possibly racist views.

Yeh, Europe has a legit immigration crisis going on, I'm not going to deny any of that.

The US is dealing with something less messy. We've had a lot of coming and going across the Mexican border since forever, oftentimes illegal. (there is a really good documentary about this from all the way back in the eighties.) It's just that now, over the last ten or twenty years, northern Mexico is seriously fucked up, and the trickled of people is larger than it used to be. Couple that with wage stagnation and people wanting a scapegoat, and you got what we have now.

@Vilageidiotx

^ THIS GUY

Lets talk about JonTron and his possibly racist views.

I disagree and I think that's a stupid opinion. He's just as entitled to say what he thinks (and be treated with respect) as anyone else regardless of how he earned his fame.

@Buddha

I don't have to treat anyone with respect, that's the best part about being a free man. I don't have to treat Anwar Congo with respect, I don't have to treat Richard Kuklinski with respect, I don't have to treat Rupert Murdoch with respect, and I certainly don't need to pretend to respect anyone who I don't respect just to protect their sense of self worth. If your happiness cannot sustain the battering of scorn, perhaps you should be acting in a manner that makes you appear like less of a massive cock. Or maybe you should just, like me and anyone else who voices an opinion that someone disagrees with, accept that you can't make everyone happy.

Edit: Villageidiot above me says something similar in a much more kind, gentlehearted way not burdened by years of being a cynic.

As for your second point, I'm not American, I have literally zero interest in the USA and it's immigration

@Buddha

And I have literally no interest in Europe and its immigration. We're pretty much on the same page here.

Because, yes, the world isn't limited to America, and yes, Europe is currently paying for/cleaning up the mess that the USA started when they started bombing the fuck out of the middle East and invading left and right.

@Buddha

I'm against our current conflicts and the past few ones, but that does sound an awful lot like your problem.

Remind me how, in fact, this isn't an issue.

@Buddha

Because I do not live there and the situation is entirely different from the one I currently live in. I cannot solve the rest of the worlds problems and do not pretend that I can.

because believe it or not, there is a difference between being anti-immigration for no reason other than racism, or having issues with the current immigration policy, or simply having concerns about it.

@Buddha

Jontron is an American citizen, so that's what I was discussing. I've already heard concerns from European countries regarding immigration (I can't remember whether it was my buddy from the Netherlands or the one from Portugal that was discussing an issue with immigrants being given several hundred dollars and a room in a cheap tenant building, but it sounded like a pretty bad situation) and consider them valid.

Lets talk about JonTron and his possibly racist views.

I think that Jontron was expressing his opinion and Destiny was just belittling him. And that Jontron needs to spend more time improving his debating skills in general (like Sky Williams). I don't think that he is a racist at all, just like Pewdiepie is not one as well. I just think that everyone just assumed that he was a racist because his views were different than the standard views, which we often see in our daily lives. The word racism/racist are losing their original meaning and being used as an emotional response. And as a way of derailing a debate or discussion. Just like the word nazism/nazi.

<Snipped quote by Chrononaut>
Legal immigration has not always been the problem unlike illegal immigration. There is a difference between an illegal immigrant and a legal immigrant. The difference is easy to notice if people are willing to open their eyes. A legal immigrant follows the pathway by living in America for three to five years, meet all the requirements, and pass the Naturalization Test. An illegal immigrant just has to cross over the Mexican-American border, overstay their visas, and other things that I cannot name at the moment. Those politicians and 'spouting bobbleheads' hate illegal immigration not legal immigration. I do not know how disliking illegal immigration makes you an anti-immigration.

I think that America should have the ability to counter illegal immigration not just blindly accept it because "we are the country of freedom" or "America is the land of immigrants so we have no choice but to accept them."

And it isn't racist if you dislike illegal immigration and want to send them back so they have the opportunity to do it the legal way.

@The Spectre

We aren't dealing with illegal immigration though. We're nuclear bombing all immigration. Also, "illegal immigration" is a fancy word for "illegal Mexicans" in America. If we were to actually deal with illegal immigrants in a way that would lead to solving the problem, it would have to be to directly deal with Mexico itself. I don't see America acting to stop Mexican immigrants, I see America acting to stop all immigrants, including legal ones, from entering the country. We're even thinking of banning citizens who had illegal parents, but know no other life other than being an American, from being here. It's stupid.

And it's not even really a problem. If anything, illegal immigrants (mexicans) benefit our economy by allowing an easily exploitable resource of hopeful idiots to enter our country, thus granting most legal citizenry cheap food product through underpaid labor. Capitalism!

Whether or not you think that practice is morally right or wrong, it's basically a win for the legal citizen.

While we're talking wars we'll never win, how about that war on drugs? That seems to be working real well for us, too.

The Elder Scrolls: Fruits of Contention - Chapter 1 (Completed)

Some artclips fucking dog ass detective ass motherfucker, ain't even Secret Squirrel ass motherfucker, 1965 hannah barbara

@gcold

Raelyn, 1 day from now.

The Elder Scrolls: Fruits of Contention - Chapter 1 (Completed)

STUFF ABOUT UPCOMING MISSIONS

@gcold

Solve murders, you say?

Lets talk about JonTron and his possibly racist views.

I do find it unfair that the developers then started insulting him personally. That's kinda shitty.

@Buddha

Agreed, though if anyone deserves to be insulted personally it's a man who, in front of hundreds of thousands of people (not sure on video viewcounts), decided to 'debate', despite his credentials previously only being making loud shouty noises and surreal jokes. That being said, I enjoy his videos.

And you make it seem like you don't think immigration is an important political issue and/or topic. It's not important to you?

@Buddha

I am not an immigrant. While I do express concerns about the abused or downtrodden (like those poor souls who are currently locked out of their colleges at the moment due to the temporary immigration ban), often to coworkers who spout anti-poor or anti-immigrant rhetoric, I can't say whether or not I care actually has any affect on the outcome. Immigration hasn't been a real issue for 200 years (though that hasn't stopped people from believing it was at the time), it's the current politicians and anti-immigration spouting bobbleheads that are the problem. They're the ones making it a problem, I'm more concerned about their ilk still being in office. Basically, I view it as a non-issue that was made an issue by idiocy. Really, it's more likely voting Trump into office is the seed that made this an issue, because guess what, this ban was only made possible because he's in office. If we had elected Hillary, it'd just have been a few idiots spouting shit about Muslims.

Hopefully everyone can get their head out of their asses and their fingers off their bare nipples before it becomes an actual issue, as in, a permanent immigration ban. Or, and this is the subject of many of my wet dreams, fire Trump, the guy spearheading this shit.

So yes, I care, but not enough to shout on twitter "FUCK YOU, TRUMP, YOUR MUMS A CUNT AND I FUCKED HER, THAT I DID"

@Chrononaut I'm beyond not following this conversation, but mildly skimming. I saw you posting some statistics and someone correcting you that a site posted them was a bad site.

That doesn't mean the statistics are wrong in anyway...it could very well be that the site itself is attempting to use that data in a negative or hateful way. But yes...I posted statistics from three sources. Crime is a real problem...it's not racist to point it out. Sometimes a narrative will crumble under evidence, doesn't necessary mean the other extreme is correct either.

@SleepingSilence

You're right, because the statistics were taken from the Department of Justice, but the math the website did being suspect is my main concern. So, actual stats probably ok, some of the stuff I quoted suspect.

Lets talk about JonTron and his possibly racist views.

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

I'm sorry but you're exactly wrong. Let's highlight this arbitrary segment for emphasis: he seems to have some strange ideas about race that lean towards racism, but I'm not convinced hes an outright racist, I think hes just sipped some alt right kool-aid and hasnt had enough time to spit it up.

What you're doing here has nothing to do with 'facts not feelings' or scientifical existence or whatever else you decided to call it -- you're determining whether or not a person (or series of statements) warrants thought, based on whether or not he/they pass the 'racist' test. It is specifically and exactly an anti-thought experiment, and it's what the weaponization of racism has produced, and it's why I'm not with you (or anyone else who's doing it) on this. To be clear, I'm not blaming you for (not?) thinking along these lines -- it's not your fault, you didn't create this problem. The problem is really, really, really, really real though, and it's waaaaaaaaaay bigger than some SJWs on twitter.

@mdk

Or maybe the fact he's a reactionary, neckbearded comedian with little evidence of actual knowledge in the subject he's discussing, along with the fact he's edging towards racism, are the reasons some people don't take his ideas seriously.

Lets talk about JonTron and his possibly racist views.

@Chrononaut You'd be making a fair point if it weren't for the fact that JonTron totally understood being pulled from the game and all he had to add to that was 'I understand the decision'. It's not him that went apeshit. Action reaction. He understands this.

I'm still not convinced that JonTron is a racist in the emotional sense. I'm not convinced that he thinks blacks are inferior. I think he makes a distinction between races based on things he considers facts. Whether those are facts or not in reality matters little because he believes them to be.

Doesn't make him a bad person IMHO.

But yeah we could say that he's a racist purely because he makes that distinction.

And I am also sure that he wouldn't have said this in 'a working environment' like an office because he's not stupid and/or retarded. But unluckily for those that are mad at him, he doesn't work in a standard working environment, but rather has made his platform into his job. That's not really his fault.

@Buddha

I'm responding more to the people saying "he didn't deserve it". Or "it was unfair". Or "how people view him is unfair". And I agree, he's probably a good enough sort.

Anyway, he'd seem slightly less racist if every topic he discussed wasn't somehow tied into race. Almost as if, race is a big concern in his life. Almost as if, he only weighed in on immigration because it was the first political topic he actually cared about.

Lets talk about JonTron and his possibly racist views.

<Snipped quote by BrokenPromise>

Ehhhh. Depends. In the past, I wouldn't have appreciated if people called me racist because I know that they call me that entirely on their perception of racism + emotional reaction. That they find me to be racist does not equate me actually being a racist (in the terms that they use it in).

It's like... there are 2 definitions for racism. A textbook definition - and an emotional/subjective definition.

But nowadays I have found that when I get called racist, sexist, or anything like that, it's a delegitimization attempt/strategy (a pretty good one). When you call someone racist, then their views are automatically disregarded, because if they are then their point is base on the hate of an entire group of people.

Hence when I look at JonTron's views, all I see is him saying things. Calling him a racist won't change the things he's saying but it only delegitimizes them under false pretenses (emotions, not arguments).

So, by now, if someone says I am racist, I just agree. Fuck yeah I'm racist. I see tribes of people. It's human nature. It's up to you yourself to challenge that and overcome it - and yes that includes black people who want to segregate themselves, and yes it includes white people who don't acknowledge that in the US there might be systematic ways where black people have a harder time doing things.

But people don't want that because challenging yourself is hard and blaming others is easy.

@Buddha

So we've confirmed Jontron is a racist then?

On another note, you can't say the things he said in any working environment without getting in trouble. Jontron isn't his real name, it's his job. He's just so happened to make his job being his persona. This is like every other celebrity ever.

So did he deserve to be pulled off that game? Yeah, of course he did. He should know by now the things you can and can't say in business relationships and the things he can and can't say if he wants professionals to want to work with him. Unlike other jobs though, he wasn't fired and he still makes the same income. So he got off easy. Unlike most of us, he can spout all the shit he wants with the most minimal of consequences.

Lets talk about JonTron and his possibly racist views.

@Buddha

not to quote others, but it really boils down to this

<Snipped quote by Vilageidiotx>

Now I'm not even sure he is a racist, but seeming to be that concerned about a white gene pool (arguing it'd be a bad thing if non whites entered it) among everything else does seem to carry some white nationalist intent. Also @Chrononaut that website you cited happens to be run by a real white nationalist, just saying if you don't trust biases from Kotaku, Jezebel or Huffpost, I would be skeptical of articles that lean on the right wing 'racial science' side.

@Garattee

Fuck. Going to admit, I don't generally vet sources I look at, so if someone is what nationalistic that's a angle I'll miss.