FourtyTwo

Military RPs- a Cause for Debate

I've been munching popcorn over this. Cheers for the thoughts- I am taking a lot on board, but I want to add to this.

Military RPs can't all be too serious/realistic. and while you'd say a full on military RP is all about strategy and realism, that's one corner. What I'm saying is, the niche that was military RPs that I ran, and many others, was completely unlike that full-on realism scenarios. I expect people to walk in with a fairly good knowledge, not be encyclopedia. It's fucking sad, when I see people who are willing, but a little confused at times, get yelled and shouted at. Sure, there are idiots. But there are noobs, people you can educate, and the thing is, I have developed well-written narratives, inside the anarchy. Lima stands as a testament to that- and while it's shaky now, it has run well for a couple of years, being an RP that is authentic and at least original, yet takes some ideas and puts it into an original concept with some action (and seriously, the dull bits of the RP were not popular, no matter what you say I know these RPers well enough to know they're saying that with authority. Believe me, I've tried contemporary, all out military RPs with full realism engaged (engagements at a range of 200m-400m rather than 50-200). People were unwilling to create units, I worked myself for nothing, and suddenly, realized it wasn't worthwhile. I enjoy action, I don't like Rambo. I like it when a tight-knit team go into urban combat, and take on the OpFor, in a head on engagement. Their stories, as individuals, is kept down- the fighting takes precedence, it's the task at hand that they're ordered into. I don't like sitting and slouching around, and when I say this, I mean in a format that doesn't build any tension- but rather, just really leaves things blank. I let people be creative, and RP along- but people don't usually take the response, as an earlier comment earlier said, soldiers moan about doing fuck all, and RPing fuck all is precisely what my life is like- and I speak for many of us if I say that it isn't what I want my RP to be a mainstay of (so hence, you can't achieve full realism, you can get partly there in tactics and other factors that I've got a fairly confident understanding of). Yet it comes to one fatal flaw, that I've realized.

A lot of my GMing is based on control. I don't act as a reactive GM, as a GM who sets out a world and then a few rules, then lets it run. A military RP needs constant co-ordination, and for the GM, it is stressful. You have to juggle a plot, equipment, and all sorts, and it's shitty really. I do it because i love it though, and it's why I ask for more to get involved, at any level they like. to do these types of RP. You can't be reactive as it means people hijack the plot- and a plot is central to a military RP because...well, without structure, things don't make sense (ie. a Private walks out onto patrol autonomously rather than the whole squad going, a decision usually made by the CO, and usually the GM (who in turn has to usually, but not always take this role as it prevents serious God-Modding abuse). It's why it's hard perhaps- and again, Brovo, a point you've made.

For the sake of the narrative, specific battles are usually easier to do, rather than a multitude of them, I should mention. It becomes incoherent if you try to have the more constant structure that exists in the timeframe of conflict- and tends to be easier on everyone, believe me. Not just the GM, because he can worry about one scenario to the next rather than a continuous structure that can become bogged down, but RPers, so that they can at least make sense of the parts, bit by bit. In regards to realism, before anybody asks- I do understand the spectrum, of angling, CQC tactics, one bullet's potential in penetration and wounding, as well as other factors. There are real factors that stay in any Mil RP that I have, though in terms of movement and distance to target, for creative purposes of hemming in the fight better, this works out nicer (could rant on this topic).

Brovo said
For example: Tanks are the front line, infantry play the support role, proper reconnaissance and air superiority wins nearly everything, and ninety percent of your time is spent being on edge of being shot at in civilian areas rather than shooting at actual targets as you pass through streets and alleys and stumble on jittery civilians as scared as you.

Tanks don't do Asymmetrical Warfare. Look at Afghanistan. Good reason why tanks don't roll the "plains" of the Hindu Kush these days. That was Desert Storm, and Iraq. Nowadays, warfare is different. IEDs, guerrilla warfare, and the fact that we're not able to counteract this effectively (they just roll back into towns we leave to the ANA) means that war is no longer simply send a tank, sent a B2 Spirit to level the shit out of an area. It doesn't take a military genius to figure it out that shit doesn't work in a place like that, and it's not a universal formula- again, maybe sometimes it works, other times, Afghanistan and Vietnam in particular, it does not. Insurgents work differently, and this is in itself, what makes unpredictability and sometimes the sheer throwing of a spanner into the works of a certain scenario, makes for some brilliant RPing where characters are forced to respond in a way that perhaps can't really be seen with many RPs of type. Maybe in other scenarios, but the Infantry do what tanks, helicopters, artillery, jets and IFVs can't. They clear buildings, block by block, house by house. Otherwise, the other half of Iraq we didn't bomb would be leveled- and supports aren't always there. They still form a bread and butter- and while unprotected compared to other assets, they can go places that we still haven't gotten any of the listed supports to go into yet, for good reasons.

Brovo said
Fact of the matter is?The vast majority of people on this site do not meet these qualifications. If I were to make a military RP, I would have to dumb it down so hard that the point of it would be lost. It would turn into generic action RP with military flavouring, and that's just selling out. It would satisfy nobody looking for a true military RP.

I can't agree, I mean, it's a narrow view to take. I can't say that it is selling out to appeal to a broader audience- one that perhaps can become more involved and learn, rather than just act as complete tards- and this you don't even have to do much of, simply just cutting the unneeded fat that really burdens it back. There are noobs, but not morons, and those latter you can filter out anyway. Sure, maybe there are less that know about military matters, but with research, or even just a quick session of Google, a half-acceptable CS can be made quite quick. Take a look at what I do for yourself (Scimitar, is by no means you regular military RP, that is perhaps very much in a different style that I would call unique to itself)- Lima might not always be the most stringent and realism-adhering RP in the world. Reality? I don't care, because I know that it's creatively, what works. It isn't clunky, it isn't a gun-wank for gunwankers. It's a Special Forces RP that mixes realism with some creative licence (though even this is debatable), and I'll stand by it, because it's outlasted so many flashes in the pan that this genre has. Only reason it's lost pace recently is due to the members of the RP being busy, but apart from that, it's gone good guns. I've seen RPs way, way shittier than it, appeal to some who want to get involved with military RPs. Either desperation or just mere curiosity to become involved creatively brings that about- and I have many a time wanted to try it on for size, though I enjoy sticking to what I stringently do. And I don't sacrifice quality in these RPs either. I'd sadly agree, that less and less people care or meet any basic requirements. But it can't be this dead, surely. It's the creators that have vanished, and there's a market for the RP, in one form or another. In a very realistic tone or a more reclined one. It isn't bitching about characters and settings, or what works or what doesn't. I don't give a fuck really, it's what people want to make of it from their perspective on conflict, and that they'll make- and this worked for ages, till the last few months, where I look at the Guild and find there isn't even a single military RP in a vein of a certain kind (and I genuinely mean, vaguely similar- find a contemporary military RP that isn't based around larger unit structures now), it isn't doable.

Warrior in the Shadows said
You elitist bastard.

I somehow agree. You can't state that RPers require a knowledge of Sun Tzu, and significant portions of military tactics. You need a frame of mind, but not that far. And it can be taught, quickly. A word in the OOC, just specifying how things work, bam. And that nets you one player that before you didn't have. Being picky in RPs about people isn't an option- you take what you get, and if you start telling people they're assholes, I know what I'd do.

Jannah said
I personally always thought it would be interesting to do a RP centred around the Arab/Israeli conflict. I fear it would be too sensitive a subject for some people though. However, it would actually make pretty decent RP material though since it's filled with the daily struggles and drama of people trying to live in a warzone, the action sequences that come from the various battles, and most of all it's something that's happening now that many people may not give a second thought about due to the fact they live away from it.

The problem is, political sensitivity. Call the same with Afghanistan, or Iraq (I stray from the latter for good reason). Then there's politics itself, the stuff in the News and everyday we hear from Parliaments and Senates. You can't go there with it, unless you do it in such a way that is broadly appealing and is satisfying, rather than a crunching shitfest that just makes the RP more complicated than it needs be. Imagine a RP set in Palestine, in the events of earlier this year. I RP for escapism, I stay semi-detached to current affairs when it comes to RP because fuck me, I don't want to hear it any more than I already do (though this said, I'll make exceptions, and it has to work in my opinion in order to make it viable, so long as it doesn't incite a massive political clusterfuck). Anyway, if I wanted to do something set with Civilians in conflict, I couldn't do modern- it doesn't suit I feel, not like say, a group of Marines on the ground would. This would have to be WW1, WW2, or something along those lines. Hence why my reaccurance to the Warsaw Uprising. I'm more and more surprised it hasn't been done yet, now I see what people want from an RP. That meets every single one of your criteria- but for now, I do not feel ready to take on the mantle of an RP like that. It needs to be done industrially well.

There is some consensus, I will say. We all have a general view, and there is a lot of people. We all at least agree that it's somewhat existent, so I'll ask, what now of it. It's not a rallying call- this has been a debate after all, over what it means to make an RP of this type. And while perhaps flashes in the pan are what make the genre come back like desert flowers after rain, it's a way of at least getting what this field will need.

Military RPs- a Cause for Debate

WW1 isn't a nice context. It's not what I call a military RP entirely, rather just an RP that is based around the great tragedies of a past generation. And most people I know wouldn't want to sign up for an RP like that. It sounds really shocking, and Rare, I do agree- it would be great, but for me, it would be a lot of micromanagement to do, and there is a lot of theatres, and factors that I couldn't be responsible for to implement to have the RP to a high standard.

Another fact is that to truly understand it's impacts is to be European (I assume you're British), or even live in Europe/Canada/Australia. Surprisingly, it doesn't sell well to Americans in relation to the concept- it is horrifying, not being a war really, but the pissing away of millions of lives for the needs of a few Imperial ambitions, from the Tommies to the German troops. What did we have at the end? Hitler, the crushing of the German Empire, the consolidation of an existing British Empire, and millions of soldiers in graves spanning from France to Belgium- not the defeat of some dictator or liberation of a country. I wouldn't consider it a military RP anymore- it's just a group of individuals trying to survive the trenches, and not get shot/gassed/bombed/sniped etc..In regards to the American comment- people can prove me wrong, and seriously, I'd be happy to hear it. But it's still surprising on the whole, the American knowledge of what happened BEFORE 1917, when the Americans entered the war. The Somme, Verdun and Marne are forgotten- they are events that in the context of history of the war, and without them, and the whole story of your soldier, you'd never make sense of it.

I could do a WW1 RP in the context of it being not a military RP, but again, the focus of a set group of individuals, perhaps not even on the same side, put into a situation beyond human comprehension, with conscription and the like. The war as merely a backdrop- it isn't a focus, it is a mere background noise that fuses the characters to one another, and it has arguably, quite a lot outside of it, perhaps families, friends, politics (though this is through News and not played characters). It'd need to be a very sensitive approach- and is why I stray from it, whilst modern/contemporary is a little easier to complete- though I'd still say you are right, a WW1 RP if done right can be done.

If anything, other periods of time I'd say are underdone, but need to be done are (dates are not specific):
Warsaw Uprising (1944)
Telemark Raid (1942)
Falklands War (1982)
Boer War (1902)

Military RPs- a Cause for Debate

The problem is, it's still too detailed, and it's a Nation RP. I mean, it is a good idea- I'll check it out, but it isn't in the realms of Casual, more on a squad-based level. It's on a tactical, widespread level, too high up and really, it doesn't portray the real grit of the infantryman, rather that or generals. It'd be interesting, so to speak, but it a craving of war within a nation RP, not just solely the former. It is worth a proposition though- I don't blame you, but I, or the Guild will one day truly figure out how to get military RPs back to their status.

Military RPs- a Cause for Debate

http://www.roleplayerguild.com/topics/62012/posts/ooc

I hate advertising. But this is a schematic for a new military RP I'm making, named "The Devil's Brigade" (actually the nickname for a joint US-Canadian force in WW2, but adapted for modern times). Call it a Product Improvement- I'm glad I managed to get some feedback here, since it's helped me to determine a lot of stuff. Precisely why they aren't popular, why they don't work as well as they can, and in all, what people want. Trying to find that regularly is hard- so this is an RP that has been created from a lot of those ideas, to make something that could work as a unique RP in it's own right, while having a lot of nice features.

Devil's Brigade (Modern Military RP)

Hello there, and as I begin writing this, I must say- this isn't a die-hard RP with stats, figures and ridiculous levels of detail (I just like fleshing this out quite a lot for the universe's sake). It's not an arcadey and Call-of-Duty esque RP. It's between. If that interests you, read on.

Sit Rep

Afghanistan, April 2011

Stationed in Camp Spear, roughly fifty miles north of Kandahar City, Afghanistan, lays the composite forces of two battalions- the Canadian 3rd Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment, and the US 1st Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment- very different in their creation, and...well, disagreeing on certain matters, yet friendly enough. They form what is unofficially known as the "Devil's Brigade"- a harkening back to the days of WW2, when Canadian and US forces fought side by side in the US. Army's First Special Service Force- as a grouping comparable to the Rangers of the time. While their operations today are very different, that is where the similarity ends- the men and women of the "Brigade" forming a formidable anvil indeed against enemy forces, with both new recruits and veterans aware of the threats they face.

The troop surge by the US seen a year before has seen a wide ripple of effects turn Kandahar Province from a resurgent area of the country, with patrols getting hairy on more than one occasion, despite multiple IED factories and weapons caches being destroyed. It doesn't stand for much it seems- because it hasn't put the Taliban off, and an above-average harvest of Opium has bought them more than enough resources to pool into local recruitment process, buying AKs, explosive materials and other equipment required to fight a guerrilla war- and fight it well. Canadian and US Marines forces are becoming slowly withered, and are being pushed from the areas they had liberated weeks earlier, in the troop surge. They are seeing the Taliban risk attacking Camp Spear, a relatively isolated fortification compared to Camp Bastion and other significant outposts in the area.

So the unexpected is counted on. The Canadians and US Marines at Camp Spear are rallied to join the operation to take the Maz-i-Afar Valley, in the southern Hindu Kush, to the north of the province. The mission is known as Operation Talon's Claw, the purge that despite reduced troop numbers, and capability, proves itself to be the one timed when the Taliban least wanted it, and yet the one that proves Afghanistan's merciless brutality once more. The last operation, before they leave- the last purge to at least make the situation clearer to the Taliban that the ANA and ISAF forces can indeed push and hold their ground when asked. Yet for the next two weeks, the soldiers are to be pushed into a fight that will suddenly become one of the most ferocious conflicts of recent times in Afghanistan, with the soldiers of both battalions pushed far beyond what is asked of them.

Our story focuses on Charlie Squad, 1st Platoon, 3rd Battalion (Canada). However, due to an organizational shift, they have been pitched in their platoon as half-American, half-Canadian, as a troop exchange between the two battalions, that has been seen to be quite successful. As tactics and equipment is fairly similar between the two units, this non-standard pairing has been seen to work, and hence, the squad is half filled with Canadians, and the other half with Americans. They've been working in the area with a Canadian Provsional Reconstruction Team (PRT), so this is a big jump up for them- rather than protecting Engineers, they're on the vanguard of the offensive.

---

3rd Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment- Light Infantry

-By Standard, armed with a Colt C7A2 Rifle, or Colt C8A1 Carbine. Automatic Riflemen use the C9 LMG (FN Minimi) OR the C6 GPMG (FN MAG), and Marksmen either use the C14 Timberwolf, or Parker-Hale M82. Grenadiers add a M203 GL to their rifles/carbines. Usually use C79 Combat Optics, or soldiers privately buy EOTech Holographic Weapon Sights, or Aimpoint Red Dot Sights. The Carl Gustav M3 is used by the Anti-Tank/Anti-Fortification man. The Pointman of the team will use a rifle/carbine, and a shotgun- namely the 870 Tactical.
-They wear CADPAT Arid Fatigues.
-As light infantry, they use lighter vehicles. Normally, they used G-Wagens for rapid transport, but increased IED threats have restricted the use of this to mere corresponding work. They use the LAV III, the older AVGP vehicle, the recently acquired Cougar for patrol and assault work, with support from Canadian Chinooks and the US Marines' gunship support.
-By standard, tend to be busy being Canadian. Couldn't research that one.


US 1st Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment- Marine Infantry
-By Standard, armed with either the M4 Carbine, the M4A1 Carbine, or the M16A4 Rifle. Automatic Rifleman is usually armed with the M27 IAR (Very Recent), M249 LMG, or M240B GPMG. Marksman is usually armed with M39 EBR, or Mk11 Marksman Rifle. Grenadier adds an M203 to their rifle/carbine- with soldiers issued by standard a M68 Collminator Sight, or Aimpoint CompM2. Alternatively, a Trijicon ACOG, or in specialist circumstances, a EOTech Holographic Weapon Sight can be acquired. The SMAW is used as an Anti-Fortfication/Anti-Vehicle weapon- and the Pointman uses either the 870MCS, or the M1014 JSRS shotgun alongside a rifle.
-Wear MARPAT Desert Fatigues
-As a US Marine unit, they can rely on significant USMC firepower. They use Cougars and HMMWV M1151 Vehicles for patrol, while using AAV-7A1 and LAV-25 vehicles for heavier assaults, among others- with the unit being able to call on UH-1Y Venom and Sea Knight transport. AH-1 SuperCobras also stand on support, for any CAS or gun requests.
-OORAH, MAFUCKERS

---

Squad Roles:

Fireteam One:

Squad Leader/Grenadier (Canada): Staff Sergeant James "Chaplain" Bishop
Pointman (Either)
Automatic Rifleman (Canada):
Designated Marksman (Note- NOT a Sniper) (Either)

Fireteam Two:

2IC/Joint Terminal Attack Controller (US):
Corpsman/Medic (Either):
Anti-Tank Rifleman (Either)
Automatic Rifleman (US)

---

CS (Example, mine is to be completed)

Name: James "Chaplain" Bishop
Age: 32
Rank: (Most are likely to be Private/Corporal/Master Corporal, no higher unless 2IC) Staff Sergeant
Appearance James
James stands at about 6"1, being a fairly well rounded man, being seen wearing the standard Canadian BDU in Afghanistan, up to 2011 standards. He usually wears a pair of red Oakley sunglasses, over the yellow tint ballistic goggles, for personal reasons, as well as a pair of Oakley SI tactical gloves, bought personally. He has brown eyes and a dark brown hair, though it is shaved very short, as well as a clean shaven face. He has a particular scar on his left arm, that goes from the wrist to the forearm, from a prior training injury.

Weaponry:
Colt C8A1
-EOTech 552 Holographic Weapon Sight, 3X Magnifier (Privately Bought)
-M203 Grenade Launcher

KA-BAR Becker BK3 Knife
-Cuts through straps, lines and necks (when in extreme CQC).

Equipment:
CADPAT Arid BDU (Helmet, Plate Carrier, Uniform)
10x 5.56 STANAG Magazines (8 Regular, 2 Tracer)
15x 40mm HE Grenades
2x White Smoke
1x Blue Smoke
1x Red Smoke
1x Green Smoke
3x Chem Lights (Blue, Red, Green)
Radio Headset
1L Camelpak (CADPAT Camo)
-Petzl Headtorch
-Night Vision Goggles

Bio: Born in Whitehorse, Yukon Terriotory, James was born to a lumberjack and a schoolteacher, his father and mother respectively. He was a youthful delinquent, in the boring town, but found his place when he left High School for University, in Vancouver, British Columbia. He quit in his first year, disliking the study he undertook, instead taking an alternative route in the Canadian Army. He was involved in the Invasion of Iraq with the 3rd Battalion, rising to the rank of Corporal, and finding his own niche, a tough lifestyle he had taken forwards since he was young. He had always been active and curious about staying in the outdoors, who took him out into the Boreal Forests, and the military felt like it was a perfect way to see a world beyond his cold and wooded home. While Iraq was completely the opposite, another tour later in 2008, the last in Iraq, put him in good stead to become a Sergeant. In 2010, he was deployed to Afghanistan with the Battalion, and ranked up to Staff Sergeant, gaining his own Squad- Charlie, of which was not yet entirely filled with forces. So as a part of a combined-troop sharing deal, James took a set of US Marines from the 5th Marine Battalion into his squad, as some other squads did- recreating the classic "Devil's Brigade" structure of mixed Canadian and American forces in one fighting unit. He visits home sometimes, and seems to have quite a strong Canadian accent, not being a city boy at all. His nickname, "Chaplain", comes from two sources- his Surname being semi-related to the nickhame, as well as the fact that he tends to be rather guiding to new soldiers, and acts as the Squad's Chaplain of sorts, in matters involving anything that troubles them, from moral support to general moaning.

Personality (Optional): James is fairly well-tempered, calm and speaks decisively when required. He is a trustworthy individual, someone to confide into and even in a world where men are men, James is prepared to listen and hear out any of his fellow soldiers concern, earning him his nickname for giving advice and moral support in the worst of times, from girlfriends to personal problems. He can sometimes perhaps act recklessly on the rare occasion, but doesn't threaten the lives of his own men- usually more himself than anyone. This isn't to say he is the most courageous solider alive- but perhaps moreover, a lucky one. He does have a good intelligence of the situation around him, and his fondness for being outside, as well as his active condition, means he doesn't mind staying in the dirt for long periods of time.

---

Following from a discussion on the Roleplaying Discussion guild, I felt it was time to try something modern, but taking on board a lot of different opinions. I'm always willing to create- and since I found some spare time, I'd be up for creating something afresh. Taking plenty of ideas from previous RPs and crafting something rather interesting. If you have no idea of some of those guns, Google is your friend. And if that doesn't help you, ask me, or a Co-GM, if you want to clarify. Better that than having no idea what is going on and being confident that your character is on a firm basis of ground.

I'd like a strong Co-GM to help me direct everything from the direction of the RP, plot lines, general management and most of all, as a shoulder to kinda keep the RP going- though I would like someone who is prepared to be dedicated here and there.

A word of caution- I would like to see this RP grow and stay at it's pace, and while this is just an interest check, I'd really like people who are willing to get their teeth in, or try at least. If you find that you really want to join, but don't get, or don't understand something, or don't even like something, let me know. This is a collaborative effort.

Military RPs- a Cause for Debate

Hmm..well, I'm making something, that I want to test as an experiment. I will post it up into here soon- but remember that Canadian/American idea I had floating? I have something that satisfies the most vengeful of nerds, and the most unknowing. It is an RP I will need help with- and one that I feel will need a lot of active co-operation to get running. Lots of mouldability, and while I like being an encyclopedia sometimes, I know others don't like researching- so all the shit that is needed is self-contained in the RP, and no more. It's Afghanistan, though a fictional operation, and to say the least, I want to see how it goes- and weapons wise, I've made it quite simple. A CO-GM would be great to help me out in really getting it moving- I would take anyone and anyone that has any idea how they work, and the level that the RP will be pitched at, once you see it.

Military RPs- a Cause for Debate

SyrianHamster said
I like military RPs, but I'm not in the military, and therefore I get easily gobbled up by people who are. OR, I get gobbled up by people who aren't but love to read all about it. I think what makes them unattractive is, they are a very niche market. From what I've seen here, they require players who know their stuff. Not anyone can just pick it up and run with it - no - it has to be a war nerd or someone who's in/was in the military. Seriously, I've seen how these RPs look; I've tried my hand at them too, and you get easily intimidated by the players who spam facts, figures and army lingo at you. I found myself having to google half of some peoples' posts just to so's my reply didn't look incompetent. My two cents? You want a military RP? Then you'll have to make it user-friendly. Which would be amazingly difficult, because it would mean you'd need to strong arm the nerds/vets/current enlisted into making more sense to the average RPer. On the other hand, you'd need to make sure the average joe knows how a gun works and has a vague understanding of what goes down in military ops. A nightmare balancing act.Yeah, no, it's a nightmare. Something I think I (or anyone, really, cus I aint special!) could pull off, but it would take a gigantic amount of effort into producing something that would appeal to both sides of the table.

Perfection. Balancing is horrifying, and I have tried it, and it fails, because the nerds tell you you're too softcore (even if you know what it is), and the...well, unknown run into it and think it's like Call of Duty. I'd say it's a very fine balance- it's meant to vaguely realistic, you're meant to have sanity with all of the elements of an RP. But there is a life-or-death tension, that fuel to the fire that makes it exiting, that gives it that interest. As I've mentioned before, I enjoy a right balance. Influences also come into play. I've played a lot of Wargame: Airland Battle lately, so I could lecture people on Cold-War era equipment now, that I could never do before. Yet at the same time, I'm still quite into a lot of other theaters of war, Zulu being one of them (PS Dutchbag, if you do it again, I have an awesome idea in mind). I wouldn't say that it requires knowledge intensely- being in the military is not a pre-requisite, but research is needed sometimes. Figuring out what is real, what isn't, and what is in the territory of being real is also important. I'd like to really appeal more broadly to the more general player, but at the same time, I want to appeal to those who genuinely would care that say, a character uses a certain type of rifle with specific equipment. And while I can name people who fill that role brilliantly, at the same time, I can't say it's a majority.

FortunesFaded said
Aye - I remember you being at least a hundred times more knowledgable on the subject than me when Zulu was running. And I think that's a component for a successful military RP, too: having an expert around, especially when you're going for realism. As for that RP specifically, I'd love to restart it at some point in the future, but not now. I simply have too much on my plate.

Likewise, I'm afraid- it was a good RP, I enjoyed it a bit, it wasn't going fast but it was good for the time.

Also, should add- this discussion in itself has made me think of maybe doing another military RP, ANOTHER one no less. Probably same aisle, modern-day stuff. Maybe something a little edgier though, a little more ingrounded in Rangers/Marines, rather than dedicated SF. Though I'll really have to see when, though it could happen.

Military RPs- a Cause for Debate

Ah, Heretic/Fortunes, was going to actually say- I did like that RP, quite a bit actually. I'd be happy as anything if you did one again. And trust me, I'd be more than happy to answer to any of your questions on kit, or just environment research- it was working quite well I recall, just I think a few kinks hadn't been creased out. You are exactly on the money with your response- head above water syndrome is hard, and I experience it with some of my military RPs, the only response being to just have a vague plan in your mind, change it when needed, and kinda direct yourself to an End Goal. Lima is coming closer and closer to it, and at the start of the RP, it is the last thing you think of- but over time, once you have four or so people that stay, you can really get into your own and craft a plot.

Military RPs- a Cause for Debate

TheEvanCat said
Arma 3 is realistic until you get trapped by a vengeful god inside of a rock while the AI all pinpoint you and land headshots from a couple hundred meters away. I've spent a couple hundred hours there, I would know.Also: "And I know more than well enough what conflict is like- I am in a MilSim clan, with many former military members"That's not even true at all, dude. I'm a cadet and I play Arma but I can admit that I know full and well that I have no fucking clue what conflict is like other than what other peoples' experiences have been.

Apologies- that was a rushed post, I take that wholly back. I'll clarify that point- I understand the operational way in which they can work, not the reality. The thing is, nobody wants that, and the banter, does exist even on patrol, sometimes on the quieter points of the frontline. I've never had the misfortune of being shot at or being wounded, and I never want to be- and I genuinely take that point back, though I will have my two cents on how it works from other sources, such as journals, documentaries, and so on. It works as a nice indication however- and playing it with the right set of mods, while it is never real bullets and injuries, is as close as you'll likely want to get (apart from VBS, which is just not a chance).

The Silver Paladin said
I could see a nice World War II D-Day thing where you play as a nation on a beach, and have weapons designated to that nation. Or Heck Look up the Winter war! That would be fun. Playing Finnish, and Russians? I could do a modern one with Israeli, Un, NATO and other nation soldiers (Israeli soldiers are awesome.) So long it was realistic. Like the guy who carries an RPK can only be prone, and he can't run. That seems fun. I like faking it for like City, futuristic, but for military I like realism.

RPKs are SAWs, not LMGs- they are weapons you could fire from standing position if required for close combat, a PKM for example, you could not (you could, but it's inaccurate as fuck). An RPK, with a 45 round mag, you can run with (though I wouldn't recommend it)- it isn't significantly heavier than a AKM, and it's role as a SAW is different to a PKM's as an MMG.

And you have brought up a perfect reason for why I don't like using current conflicts (or at least, frozen conflicts that get warm sometimes, like Israel-Palestine) for good reason. It sets itself within parameters that I can't creatively control because it's a real thing- whereas another RP for example, I can pitch in a creative area (eg. the mountains of Armenia in TF Lima's latest setting, as a case study). Even TF Lima, which is probably quite politicized now (I started it in late 2012, this was before Ukraine arose) still maintains itself as quite a sensible RP that doesn't exactly point fingers at one or the others. Though you mention the Winter War, which is cool- but again, it's hard to introduce smaller wars to audiences who would want to have to research the war to understand the scenario (and this is hard, because I know people are lazy/have better things to do (more of the latter), and would rather that the shit that they were getting into was at least quite understandable. I'd love the concept- but again, I know that I don't have enough of a knowledge to write it up to an acceptable level, that I would feel would be authentic enough (or I could draft some Finns, hey).

Enalais said
I don't really join military rps were everyone is a bad ass, I want to see a rookie freeze up in his first fire fight, not mow down twenty men and not question his morality about it.

Up to the player character that. They might just get down, target, pull the trigger, gone. Some find it easier than others, to say the least, others might need some pushing, a situation that throws them right into the fray and it is do or die. Morality is a big thing too, but must be handled correctly- different groups of soldiers view this all very differently. Special Forces groups don't think about it at night, but damn, it might haunt them years on, though others could just let it go. A Soviet Conscript in Stalingrad? He's brainwashed with so much propaganda, he'll do anything to murder the Nazi scum in his leader's city. A US Marine in Afghanistan? Could become demoralized and sick of war, and sick of his work. It's variables, differences.

So what I'll say in conclusion is this- it exists, but there is no consensus on how it should work. And that makes me sad- because I could easily, very easily, end up making an RP that could quell all these needs, yet I know that it wouldn't last more than twenty posts (like most Mil RPs), because nobody agrees on shit. This RP shows that while you're all very in favor of realism, and very in favor of a set of pre-determined battlefields, the genre can't exist because a paradox exists with the former. It makes me think about what I write, if I'm honest- and I am beginning to understand in a way, what it means with Military RPs now. I'll still stick to what I write, Because while I know it isn't text Call-of-Duty, sometimes it's just boring and everything dries up- and I've seen this cycle repeat, and repeat again (I've run far too many now). I create stories around groups of soldiers, whether they are Special Forces, of soldiers in the midst of the Second World War- and the fact that it's a warzone, with situations where our characters will inevitably have to kill people, and may risk the chance of getting killed back.

I want someone to set one up, other than me though. That I want to put across- I want that message to be taken back, and I mean, as begging as that sounds, I really have got the ideas but no time to write them out. Thanks for the discussion people- if you have anything to add, just throw it down.

Military RPs- a Cause for Debate

The thing was, I would say this- realism isn't the aim, it's a cited point of reference. Task Force Hephastatus is the perfect example of this. Yes, I stole a lot of inspiration from Arma 3, and I mean, a lot (fuck, it might as well have been called a personal take on it, but hey, I thought I'd add a lot of my original content to create a semi-self created story). But I put in my own timeline, my own way of how things could work- and "Realism" in some cases, doesn't mean historical or exactly even a future path. I don't like going overboard with it- or else you'd never be able to RP it out effectively enough.

And while the modern soldier is perhaps sitting away in peacetime, this is something as a writer, that we can subdivert- we aren't done with Afghanistan, and while the calm and peaceful moments are in there, nobody wants that. They want the moment when things go to shit, is frantic. And I know more than well enough what conflict is like- I am in a MilSim clan, with many former military members. They have banter. You may not understand it, but these are people who laugh in the face of death, they're really funny, they just don't give a shit sometimes about the little things, even in the worst of times. Crazy really.