Galavani

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by catchamber>

But when it's time to give free shit to blacks and amerindians ethnicity is a simple thing to define.

@Andreyich

Yeah really easy.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

Okay so what is your claim here? That ethnostates are so rare we don't know of any and thus we can't say anything about what an ethnostate is because they never existed? The true ethnostate has never been tried?

@Kratesis

To dig through all of your pedantic questions this would be closest to my point.

Im saying the very idea of ethno-states is shaky on so many grounds and arbitrary that a place could or could not be an ethno-state depending on who you talk to, Richard Spencer does say that america used to be an ethnostate or at least close to one because it was more than 95% white. Obviously you and others call places like Japan and maybe even india or china ethnostates for the same reason, that their countries 'look' fairly racially homogenous.

Some say an ethno-state has to be a 100% pure, some say above 90% or 85% some say you can have a non native populatiob but as long as the government is working soley in the interests of the native ethnicity. So yeah its hard to say anything about an ethnostate when there is no real settled example, we probably have 4 different interpretations in this thread alone.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Essentially, this is why I said "I'm not sure how far I'd go with that". The main idea is that, as I said above, it's kinda hard to maintain the identity of a place unless the people that are coming in are willing to assimilate into the culture - and therefore values - of that place. Unfortunately, the places we are talking is predominantly white at the moment, and turning that into anything else - barring a slow process at the end of which I really couldn't give a damn if everyone's skin color is equivalent to a neon sign - would be a mistake.

@ReonenMiruel

So help me understand what you mean then, you ARE a civic nationalist, and not a ethno-nationalist.

And you are happy with non whites coming into non white countries as long as they assimilate and it happens gradually?

And how do you feel about white immigration to white counties, like greeks and italians in australia?

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>

How much of the planet should they share in order to be a moral ethnostate, in your view?

<Snipped quote by catchamber>

Can you name an ethnostate that has imploded over shifting or vague definitions of ethnicity? I'm sure this has happened; human history is replete with failed states but do ethnostates implode over shifting and vague definitions of ethnicity with greater frequency than multiethnic states implode over violence between separate ethnic groups?

However your reply implies a rather large degree of confidence that this will occur. Have ethnostates in the past failed due to shifting and vague definitions of ethnicity that we can say with great confidence that a state must be ethnically heterogeneous in order to be stable?

@Kratesis

Yes this actually happens constantly, because race and to a larger extent ethnicity is arbitrary, 'ethno-states' are barely ever realised. America is a perfect example, they still cant settle on the lines on what a white person is.

The Irish, Italians, Catholics, Swedes, and a bunch of other groups youd consider white were not always included in that category making an 'ethno-state' pretty damn impossible by any working standard. And then even today there is split opinion over the whiteness of white hispanics, jews, and various arab and medeterrianian groups who may or may not look pretty caucasian.

But the U.S. is complicated right? Lets have a more 'homogenus' example, maybe somehwere like china, or india. They seem like natural ethnostates right?

Well China has around 50 different ethnicities, india has close to a couple hundred, which they can group and recognise but to the westerners eye they probably seem like on race per country.

If you want to go by any working definition of ethnicity, there are very very few ethnostates in the world today, and even places like japan cant qualify when they are encouraging imigration to support their low workforce and stunted birth rates. An ethnostate doesnt ask non native people to come over and live in their country.

As racist as the UK may have been in the 40s if it was an ethnostate it wouldnt have asked carribeans to come over during the 50s to repopulate the workforce after WW2.

I'm not sure what your definition of 'implode' is, but ethnostates are so difficult to put together I doubt any of them have even gotten that far.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Why would I? I got here legally, not sponging off welfare, and continue to be here legally without a criminal record. Is that an issue?

<Snipped quote>

Not really - I just like to think that there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that some cultures can't assimilate into another, especially if one brings those of that culture en masse, giving them opportunities to segregate themselves from the larger population. As with anything, gradual and controlled is probably the best way forward.

@ReonenMiruel

Well yes really, you are talking aboit civic nationalism. The fact the you 'got here' means you arent native to the land and therefore not the ethnicity.

I dont think you appreciate that no amount of 'legal status' will change your ethnicity. You dont qualify for an ethnostate because you arent the right race (and by proxy the right ethnicity).

By that same arguement, your example of a japanese ethnostate could have white and black 'japanese' people as long as they werent sponging of welfare or committing crime.

I'm not sure if you dont actually know what an ethnostate is or you are just making an exception for yourself.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by catchamber>

I know it sounds harsh, but pretty much. I mean, you don't see people wanting to flock to places such as Switzerland or Japan even though they're technically first world countries, yeah? Must be doing something right somewhere.

Ultimately I want to get rid of the welfare state or at least cut it back down to a local version of what we have, instead of the federal monstrosity that currently exists (I'm just using AU as a model, I don't know all that much about how the USA's or the UK's, for example, work). Seems like that would go a long way towards patching up the immigration issue.

@ReonenMiruel

So you would kick yourself out of the country you are in?

Or are you getting ethno-nationalism confused with civic nationalism?

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

I do not know enough about him to make the assessment.

@Andreyich

Okay lets simplify it.

He's not belarusian and not white, would you be cool with him living in your ideal ethno-state version of belarus and having kids with a belarusian woman?

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

"I'm intellectually incapable actually giving a legitimate reason but there is one."

@Andreyich

Heres a hypothetical, as long as he was a 'loyal and assimilated' whatever he is race (clearly non european and non white) would you be cool with @ReonenMiruel race mixing and having half non white kids in your ideal ethnostate?

I mean, he seems like he would be willing to integrate, so that'd be enough, right?

Maximum City: The Superhero Sandbox (City Building, Currently Accepting)

@SugarRush@Eviledd1984 I'm reading over both your sheets now, but just to let you know I dont accept real life images, replace them with cg images or drawings please.