Willy Vereb

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

<Snipped quote by MetalLover>

>No app is overpowered
>Wiliy has literal ICBM's despite his claims.

@Dinh AaronMk

My gosh how terrible.
Seriously, this is getting downright bothersome.
Can you just stop worrying over technology being present in a sci-fi setting and accept that we aren't a bunch of ragtag peasants only struggling to survive but nations with their own agenda?
Geez, we have entire nations keeping a considerable portion of their pre-war arsenal yet you get weak in the knees for me mentioning having ICBMs with yet untested reliability?
Stop being squeezy and realize we write a story. This is no wargame. We work with players not against them.
Nobody stops you from writing your society the way it is now. But realize each and every player has their own style.
Complain about hax when a player nation actually strongarms you into their servitude (unless it's done with your consent).

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>

The thing with Fallout is: most of the cities are small city-states anyways, and the possession of high-tech has mostly always been on a minority to the point that it's self-contained. Unlike here where the possession of one suit seems to imply that a nation can continue to manufacture existing ones. The materials and supplies of Fallout have been a successive series of working on what came before it. And there was only one faction capable of somehow manufacturing new stuff: The Enclave. The Institute more recently but they're on a severe small scale compared to Osaka and this RP's Denmark or your Yellowstone.

The rest of the Fallout world had to make due with reproducing what was left behind for them. No one was making any new FEV and no one was building new reactors. They were moving about pre-existing parts to re-fab what they needed.

The issue with the way it's being done here is that people are forgetting it and think they can all be NCR around the time of New Vegas; which as a passing reminder I'll toss out they didn't even build their Power Suits, they stole from the BoS who in turn adopted them from the US Army when the world went tits up. So even in the BoS' case they were recycling the previous world and were not carrying out independent, fresh manufacture.

Similarly, the capacity of the vaults was not to continue producing Pip-Boys which meant they were in a severe short supply. Some laptops here might survive but that's it: the global infrastructure isn't in place to produce more just like new Pip-Boys aren't being made in Fallout's world.

There is a rarity to Fallout's high-tech that's being ignored here when everyone can claim to have all the high-tech and produce it flagrantly.

@Dinh AaronMk

The problem is with Fallout that it's all an artifice. They can understand and manufacture tech. They can repair stuff. They do have pretty damn high tech levels at average.
The setting is just forced to a status quo.
There's nothing preventing Fallout humanity to make their situation less shit yet when it isn't a plot device, they don't.
As for "high tech" (by Fallout standards) being rare it's exactly because the factions that possess them refuse to share.

Anyways, as it happens with NRP you have only minimal control over its style. And things are right that way. As implied in the OP this is less of that total anarchy where city states fight each other for control but a more organized effort from returning political bodies to recover their former groove or perhaps even abuse the situation and gain power over the wasteland.

@Willy Vereb, nobody gives a damn but you. � just saying.

@The Grey Warden

You know ASTA prior got forced out of OOCs for much less.
Seriously, if you have something to say do it in PMs or even with the new VM function.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>

You just added a serious amount of steps to the production of rubber, at which point when you have the coal just use it directly to make raw power.

You'd need to now render the coal as a gas, which then need to be mixed with butaidiene. Then when that's all done: it needs to be polymerized with a mix of vulcanization chemicals. And where is anyone in the world going to get half of this? It's already an incredibly difficult process.

At this point, just get a fucking rubber tree. You already need the rubber to perform these processes anyhow.

You're really stretching yourself here.

@Dinh AaronMk

Nobodygivesadamn.jpg

<Snipped quote>

>Implying Fallout-like isn't in the title and most of us not in America totally aren't already separated by huge tracts of empty land that OP promises to fill with "native rebellion" for us to make our lives difficult.

<Snipped quote>

The point in this is to cause a stop and reconsideration per the norms of the setting and the otherwise limited confines in respect to laser rifles.

But I'm beginning to suspect OP doesn't really read anything.

@Dinh AaronMk

You have a quite weird vision of Fallout. AKA the world with laser guns as "low tech", fusion reactors powering abandoned churches, super viruses, teleporters, mind control devices, sentient AI and where radiation poisoning is the key to immortality.
Yeah, and this list is horribly condensed in comparison all the things in Fallout. That sure tells something about the tech levels.
Even if it's the exact opposite of what you try to argue for.

Oh, you meant the lack of civilization? Oh, except the fact every game has several developed cities around.
If a player's nation is more established than a ragtag government then what? The rest of the world is still shit.
You're worrying over nothing.
So long a player doesn't powergame it's all right in my book.

<Snipped quote by ASTA>

[Another post about how the knowledge/theory of a something =/= actually being able to do it]

It's like people forget global supply chains and the manufacturing process.

@Dinh AaronMk

We don't?
You forget that global supply chains only accelerate the process than outright allow it. There are plenty alternative solutions to make our technology in some form. The nazis during WW2 designed a jet fighter which operated by burning coal in a basket. If some resource is unavailable you can just try to make it from something else. Especially with the wide potential of sci-fi technology. above all it gives the narrative power of vagueness. You can just say this or that was accomplished by a new method and it could be true.

And again, nobody gives a damn about technicalities. This is a forum roleplaying game. Have fun!

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>

The problem with the CNT proposal is that though it might be possible: it's one of those things that aren't possible without rubber. And rubber isn't produced native in much of the world. You're not going to find rubber trees in Europe, North America, and synthetic rubber or poly-vinyl may not be on the list of things to produce in oil-producing regions (they might need to fuel their cars, lights, and basic electricity needs as well).

And even without rubber you need to rely on some heavy engineering and incredibly low temperatures to pull argon gas from the air in cryogenic distillation. But then we come to the issue again that the requirements to meet may not be within reach of present societies.

Rubber and vinyl deteriorates, cracks, and becomes brittle over time. I would know: I handle and deal with this stuff when it fails. Rubber and vinyl is the all important sealant for these processes. When they're over-used and gone then so does the product of this level of refinement. Producing the correct sort of CNTs requires sealed environments either totally free of oxygen or comprising an atmosphere of inert gases.

@Dinh AaronMk

So? In spite of your "experience" this is the first time you hear about synthetic rubber? If needed we can make rubber even out of coal.
And sure, in 2080 we still use rubber seals. Especially for underground factories made to last hundreds of years.
Seriously, just stop. Nobody even cares about this detail here. This is fiction. Get your head warped around it.

Allowing this too all the same brings us to the point I made in response to Frengo. It shifts the story from relying on remnants to capable able-bodied nation-states, which at that point we would have already restored the pre-existing nations and it's not really post-apoc in the sort the GM appears to want anymore.

Well, then you read something wrong.
For starters the GM wants a nation game with lots of interactions between players. Not a player versus faceless wasteland setting.
Besides, talk to the players who already have power armors and laser guns here.
I don't see any part of the setting being hurt, do you?

The rest can be figured out or re-discovered on the surface. The possible extent of in-shelter manufacturing would be the basic tools and skill for shelter unkeep with spare metal parts to keep fans and wires in check. Anything bigger would mean that you're building a more expensive shelter than need-be with some hard to produce and procure materials inside.

@Dinh AaronMk

You pretty much just contradicted yourself with this sentence.

As for the part prior, no. Stop thinking about mere shelters and imagine a city of sorts built underground. For people to live for 200 years there they'd very much require that. if you think of that as excess then you very much just doomed your Vaulters to either death or a shitty life they were supposed to prevent.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

Alright, posting my profile. It's seriously work in progress but with this I can at least make edits to it from more than one device.

Enclave

Neo-Hungarian Enclave

---

Quick Summary

Name: Regni Novum Hungaricum, Neo Hungarian Enclave, Az Új Magyar Uralom
Type of Government: Military Dictatorship
Territories: The dark green area around Yellowstone
Population: TBA
Demographics: 28% Hungarian, 72% American
Religion: 78% Neo Christian, 22% Other

Fictional History

The Neo Hungarian Enclave or simply just the "Enclave" dates back to the opening years of the Fourth World War. Their original home of the Neo Hungarian Kingdom collapsed under wave of red led by no less than three major powers. Most of the leadership along with millions of refugees fled to America, hoping to escape the war. They settled down in South Dakota which remained sparsely populated after the civil wars. Gaining their relative independence the refugees formed the Neo Hungarian Enclave which was back then only thought as a temporary government. Since King Mathias III. got assassinated they hastily promoted a governor-general in his place.

Politics/Society

The Enclave is a dictatorial government ruled by the Hungarist Cross Party with the governor-general at its helm. They are ultra-nationalist radicals mixed with the elements of fascism. Their propaganda often mentions their grand ancestry as nomadic conquerors and mighty kings with their ultimate plan being the union of all mankind under their flag. For this reason in the past decade they took considerable steps to expand, putting more and more lands under their "protectorate". Concurrenntly they distinguish between protectorate and original Enclave citizens with obvious special treatment to the latter.

Technology

MAGOS is the Enclave's chief organization tasked with developing technology and industry. Thanks to their efforts the Enclave is notably more advanced than their neighbors. They have dozens of towns and cities with working infrastructure, police, medical centers and the presence of nearly all industries. Ironically the asteroid strike which nearly wiped out the Enclave's vaults is now known as the resource-rich Great Crater which provides easily accessible rare metals to fuel their development. Technology-wise while the Internet is mostly gone and so did immeasurable amount of information MAGOS' own databases saved up enough that with over a centuries of effort they managed to restore it to a level close to that before WW4. They know nuclear science, electromagnetic propulsion, laser and particle physics or even the creation of carbon-nanotubes. While compared to someone from 2080s their technology might be still crude and filled with gaps they indeed possess a level of sophistication rare for dwellers of the wasteland.

Military

The Enclave is considerably militarized with many of their technological achievements are never used for civilian purposes. Their soldiers are mostly recruited from original Enclave citizens who are fed the government's propaganda from youth and at times even prepared for military service since an early age. Enclave soldiers are highly motivated and skilled. Though with their numerous conquests they have to rely on more hastily trained and much worse equipped militias to fill the gaps. Programs to indoctrinate non-Enclave citizens from youth are already in the testing phase.

Enclave infantry are well-equipped albeit relatively low on numbers. Their equipment is top notch compared to what they usually encounter and thus their training is similarly intense to make that worth. Enclave troopers wear body armors of CNT weave cloth and fiberplastic. Their standard firearm is the EK-47 railgun carbine which fires 4x16mm projectiles at adjustable velocities up to 1500 m/s. Other weapons include grenades, grenade launchers, compact surveillance drones.

Militia are provisional fighting units operating as a "stop gap" to fill out for the numbers for the Enclave Troopers. They generally recive little equipment aside from what they can locally procure which includes standard firearms and overall light equipment. Albeit militias carrying EK-47s or using drones of their own is far from unusual. Their heavier equipment involves improvised weapons and vehicles as well as support from the Enclave Troopers.

To maintain the order in the otherwise lawless wastelands the Enclave uses gendarmerie for police. They're a paramilitary unit of well-trained with their traditions attempting to connect with the Hungarian Royal Gendarmerie (Magyar Királyi Csendőrség) from the 19-20th century. They wear woven CNT body armors capable of stopping most small arms rounds and carry shock batons as well as P-21G electromagnetic sidearms. As their designation says these pistols were modified for grendarmerie use including added ID-locked safeties and the function to fire non-lethal rounds if necessary. They also use grenades, drones and armored personnel carriers and may request additional support if necessary. In event of an attack the Gendarmerie has the duty to protect their homeland until the military support arrives. They're proud to the fact that through their long history no Gendarmerie ever disobeyed orders.

Robots
TBA
Vehicles
TBA
Aircraft
TBA
Other
The Enclave secretly has a couple of pre-war satellites they managed to hide during WW4. These are highly automatized (they procure their own fuel, for example) and using the Vault's cypher it's possible to contact them. They also possess several ballistic missiles, albeit they are dated and required numerous retrofits over the decades. Without live testing them the effectiveness of these missiles is uncertain though their warheada are definitely operational. In fear of similar threats they built several radar stations and set up burried railgun bases in case ballistic missile defense is required.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>

You're also under-estimating the logistics which would make any notions of producing the same tier of technology as would have been enjoyed pre-war impossible. It's like you didn't read. Let me refresh you:

<Snipped quote>

@Dinh AaronMk

Yeah, returning to the same would be impossible.
Utilizing the same technology with a different allocation of materials? Absolutely.
You seem to be under the impression that people in the post-apocalyptic world want Toyota cars. No, they just want cars.
And again, future tech+ people in the Vaults literally spent decades to work out measures that can accomplish what they want with the limited resources.
Microchips, for example. Did you know that CNT is so versatile you can pretty much forget all thoe fancy nanoparticles before?
CNT can theoretically also be created by burning coal. Yes. Of course the actual solution would be more complex and I don't wager to tell the solution to something scientists with better qualifications than me are working on right now.
Similarly, electric power. DMFC which is basically a battery converting methanol and oxygen for electricity. Sure, it'd require platina electrodes. Except it doesn't. Why? CNT. Efficiency can be a problem, too. Except CNT solves that. Dem three letters are good.
Where do you get the tools to make these? Underground CNT fab. Like it or not to house hundreds of thousands of people you practically need to build an underground city. So why stop at the base requirements? Especially in case of sci-fi.
And yeah, CNT is promised to work wonders in so many fields. The inner skeptic in me already tells that half of these would eventuall turn out to be sham.
Regardless, this is sci-fi. This is fiction. As others said we aren't making a paper on theoretical development level of people 200 years after an apocalyptic war in 2080. We write a collective story.
So get used to the pew-pew lasers and other technological elements. No, this does not destroy the setting. Again, Fallout is a longshot from the vision you depicted in your previous posts.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

@Dinh AaronMkYou do raise some good points yet also miss quite a few.
First off, no matter if they drop thousands or even a hundred thousand nukes across the world, infrastructure will not cease altogether. Simply put we don't ever had enough boom for that. Nowadays almost even the smallest settlement in the first world has almost complete infrastructure. At worst the series of electromagnetic pulses make less shielded consumer electronics on the surface useless which kinda sucks but doesn't even slightly effect more protected pieces away from the direct blast zone or especially whatever people save up in bunkers.

The world may shrink, key people may be missing but overall the idea of millions of modern or in this case futuristic humans would spend their time plowing the ground with no mechanization in sight is pretty much impossible. Especially not with the existence of Vaults where supposedly the said key personnel were sent to both retain the knowledge and work out a way to restore civilization once they or their descendants return to the surface.
And again, you seriously underestimate the craftines of a humans during dire times. No, they won't just stand there with open mouths and occasionally complain how it sucks they don't have any tractors.

Lastly, you use Fallout as comparison. As in the sci-fi series with pocket-sized fusion reactors, power armors, laser guns ad infinitum, robotic servants and all that jazz. These and even more "super" elements are all part of the setting. If you want a game about everyone struggling to survive then sorry because you've just visited the wrong game. Try those near-future post zombie apocalypse NRPs which occasionally pop up. In this RP we are openly endorsed to have sci-fi elements coupled with the shizoish anarchic atmosphere of the wastelands. Whether you like it or not this is a fact.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

<Snipped quote by Mag Lev>

If the purpose though of these bunkers were to preserve populations than there'd be little point in functioning high-tech military-grade equipment. A simple biohazard suit like those we use today would be more than enough for exploratory purposes.



I would also be apprehensive to even suggest that these Bunkers be the mad experiments of a company like they were in Fallout. But the pervasive distribution of them would probably mean that no one group dug and built them, so that rules it out (the Vaults of Fallout were a top-secret government and corporate experiment for only America). But even then though, most of the people in the Fallout wasteland aren't or weren't descended from Vault residents either actually.

<Snipped quote by Willy Vereb>

I'm going to openly and dickishly contest the possibility of this statement.

The sort of infrastructure needed for a society to produce new technology to the sort we're expecting is beyond the scope of our current non-states. Modern technology already is an international initiative demanding a diverse range of resources not always found evenly spread across the world (computing and the materials in computer chips for instance are largely only found in central Africa). Without this massive international infrastructure anymore I can't see anyone innovating into new areas of research or even accurately continuing post-war initiatives without using already dying devices (how is anyone supposed to ever produce a new CPU for a computer even when one inevitably fails, provided it hasn't been totally fried with an EMP blast which nuclear weapons put out? There's probably a very finite pool of resources for anyone to draw from to keep surviving technology alive).

There'd also be the population of appropriately educated individuals who would know enough about a thing to do that thing even if the resources were present. But since we're also talking about stuff on a broader scale than a decked-out Kalashnikov there'd also need to be a very large communications network that doesn't move at the speed of a potato nailed to the floor (remember that statement about modern tech being an international initiative?)

So really, if we're discussing stuff like power-suits or even airplanes (I feel) there's a limit that needs to be known beyond it being simply a game thing to keep stuff nerfed so no one can nerf someone else.

It's not to say that there wouldn't be groups without access to that, but since it's been a century or more since annihilation that's a lot of years of general wear on these things that would reduce their effectiveness or quality, if there's anything left. The number of people knowledgeable enough to use this equipment would be scant at best. So on that, these groups I feel would be something on the last legs of that tech, even at the last rolls of duct-tape so use of these resources would need to be incredibly measured; even in a defensive situation.

A charm of the apocalypse genre is often in just that: apocalyptic. Nothing works for its intended purpose or is run down. Or the quality is shoddy. Humanity is trying to leach of the remains of what was without any appropriate knowledge of what it was. A lot of people might figure out the simple things like smithing guns. And I say that because home-made guns are a pretty major cottage industry in the third-world: see the Khyber Pass guns.

@Dinh AaronMk

First off, microchipps don't require rare elements as an explicit need. Second, they are found outside of Congo.
just like guns many seemingly advanced technologies are relatively easy to produce with sufficient knowledge in less developed environments (though microchips are of course not them).
Railguns and carbon-nanotubes are surprisingly among these. The latter was involved in the creation of Damascus Steel, for example.
Electromagnetic technology in general benefits from having few complex moving parts.

Third, while this is a good excuse for low tech or shizo tech environment nothing really stops people from using something better. Aircraft and pre-war tech is all but endorsed by the OP also things are fine enough that global relations are becoming a thing again.
And who said the vault-dwellers just sit around and did nothing during this time. If they wanted to keep their lifestyle developing means to maintain their tech was one step they got to take.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

I agree here. The only reason I'm questioning the tech level is wondering how advanced these suits got in 200 years since they were apparently designed in the bunkers. Also questioning because I want to draw a line between infantry armor and what be defined as a 'Power Suit'. Probably going to remove Power Suits from what the Empire produces since I don't really have reason for their existence.

I do wonder why any bunker would create Power Suits in the first place since they had no idea what was above. Sure, they probably were preparing for the worst but they could have done that easier with the production of weapons or stockpile having been prepared before the end of the War.

@Mag Lev

I think the plot is somewhat a mess and you onl need to take the background with a grain of salt.
It's possible some "Vaults" designed power armors during those 200 years but it's also plausible that they were developed before or after that.
Say, in Age of Rebirth some player factions had power armored infantry as their elites. The WW4 broke out 20-30 years after that (depending which of the 3 different incarnations of the setting we take).
It's also plausible some Vaults made power armor suits in preparation to the hostile environment or were just plain megalomanical to work on advanced weapons in hopes of conquering the world.
It's also plausible some nations developed power armors after they surfaced. It may be even developed from examining a pre-war model they accidentally found.

The possibilities are almost endless. Just go with whatever you feel fun without going overboard.
Also Fallout power armors are not clunky. They might look dated which gives them a strange charm but Fallout power armors are otherwise both robust yet mobile.

The Rise of Man (Fallout-like RP)

Just a small thing I noticed, everyone seems to create the same few things or at least include them in what they produce.

@ClocktowerEchos

?
Could you elaborate a bit?

@MetalLoverI decided to change my nation's style a bit. Since it's obvious that people can actually connect with each other overseas so there's no way they don't know about the real Hungary I modify things a bit.
Basically during WW4 Neo Hungaria got overwhelmed and a massive wave of millions of refugees fled to the recently stabilized USA. With permission and given the fact the civil wars depopulated the center of the USA the refugees formed the Hungarian Enclave or just the Enclave. Long story short they were kinda radical and after their re-emerge they pretty much became Nazis. They re-invented Hungarism and embraced their culture in the most distorted way possible.
I already have their insignia: