Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by vancexentan
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vancexentan Hawk of Endymion

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If you say so I think you're grossly overlooking Jeanne as fighter on her own merit personally.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by The Red Seelie
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If you say so I think you're grossly overlooking Jeanne as fighter on her own merit personally.


Again. This has nothing to do with fighting Skills. This has to do with defensive capablitys. Jeanne, Like any saber can be overwhelmed. Shes not a one man army. Shes not Iskandar or Gilgamesh. Shes not in her Ruler state. She uses Mana, Her Master doesn't have an Infinite Pool. She doesn't have Independant action. So irrevalent of her fighting prowess. She can and will be overrun with time its an inevitablity. Just like how Kiyohime can't hold her dragon forme. Neither can Jeanne hold out for eternity.

Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by vancexentan
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Yeah? Isn't that a given for pretty much any servant not with some stupidly powerful ridiculous ability in the fate's verse? I don't see what you're trying to argue here I know Jeanne isn't going to be winning entire battles against more than two servants on her own. All I'm saying is your focusing on the barrier phantasm too much.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by The Red Seelie
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Yeah? Isn't that a given for pretty much any servant not with some stupidly powerful ridiculous ability in the fate's verse? I don't see what you're trying to argue here I know Jeanne isn't going to be winning entire battles against more than two servants on her own. All I'm saying is your focusing on the barrier phantasm too much.


What I was trying to do was quantify the barrier, When does it break? when should it Break? That's what I was trying to ascertain.

Because after that barrier breaks, shes left with her sword and her skills. Weakened but certainly not out of the game.

Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by vancexentan
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@1Charak2I'm assuming it's strong enough too take at least one or two powerful noble phantasms at this state. She isn't ruler but the phantasm itself hasn't changed.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by The Red Seelie
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@1Charak2I'm assuming it's strong enough too take at least one or two powerful noble phantasms at this state. She isn't ruler but the phantasm itself hasn't changed.


Okay so 2 Anti-fortress seems fair
thats 6 anti-army
or 300-720 anti unit
or 3000-7200 Basic attacks

Then the flag perma breaks, could probably use the pole as a broken phantasm

Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by vancexentan
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Probably. Not that the thing will see that much use and I'm not going to keep track every small hit the thing takes like when it gets banged with a sword. I'm not sure why this is a pressing matter though Jeanne's on our side.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by The Red Seelie
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Probably. Not that the thing will see that much use and I'm not going to keep track every small hit the thing takes like when it gets banged with a sword. I'm not sure why this is a pressing matter though Jeanne's on our side.


Just in case, after all the wish isn't going to be that strong spread across 7 people... also, Don't measure individual sword strikes that is just dumb. But do measure anti-fortress/Anti Army. That's probably a good idea.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Cu Chulainn
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Okay, I'll admit it. Archer is my favorite class.



He's an Archer that can handle himself in a melee. If his Phantasm needs nerfing, ler me know. As for his stats, he is one of the Knight classes, and he was also a formidable warrior in his time. He also survived a time of war through his whole life and died of natural causes in the beginning of a time of peace in Japan, which is why his luck is above average. If any nerfs are needed, let me know.

EDIT: Nerfed the magical resistance of his second NP

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Okay, I'll admit it. Archer is my favorite class.



He's an Archer that can handle himself in a melee. If his Phantasm needs nerfing, ler me know. As for his stats, he is one of the Knight classes, and he was also a formidable warrior in his time. He also survived a time of war through his whole life and died of natural causes in the beginning of a time of peace in Japan, which is why his luck is above average. If any nerfs are needed, let me know.


I suggest reducing the Magic resistance to B as he doesn't have the blood of the dragon which is what gives such immense magic resistance. He just has the dragon Reactor.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Cu Chulainn
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@1Charak2

That does make sense, yeah, although I did have the idea to reword it within the lines of making him considered a 'Dragon' while this Noble Phantasm is activated. This is due to his legend as being called a Dragon, both by others and himself. The armor is not only the famous armor that he was known to wear, but also represents the crystalization of his legend as the Azure Dragon of the North.

I had an idea of actually giving him a skill to represent this. This idea stems from how Oda Nobunaga has the Demon King skill, which is technically a variation of the Innocent Monster Skill, except she also called herself a demon as well. Of course, in Masamune's case, it would make him take on more of the characteristics as a member of Dragonkind. In the end, I scrapped the idea of giving him a similar skill due to balancing reasons, seeing as Oda ended up being pretty OP,
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by The Red Seelie
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@1Charak2

That does make sense, yeah, although I did have the idea to reword it within the lines of making him considered a 'Dragon' while this Noble Phantasm is activated. This is due to his legend as being called a Dragon, both by others and himself. The armor is not only the famous armor that he was known to wear, but also represents the crystalization of his legend as the Azure Dragon of the North.

I had an idea of actually giving him a skill to represent this. This idea stems from how Oda Nobunaga has the Demon King skill, which is technically a variation of the Innocent Monster Skill, except she also called herself a demon as well. Of course, in Masamune's case, it would make him take on more of the characteristics as a member of Dragonkind. In the end, I scrapped the idea of giving him a similar skill due to balancing reasons, seeing as Oda ended up being pretty OP,


I guess, but he can still function with his other noble phantasm active while under the effects of this one. So it would likely just be a balancing thing. Considering.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Cu Chulainn
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<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

I guess, but he can still function with his other noble phantasm active while under the effects of this one. So it would likely just be a balancing thing. Considering.


Yeah, I added the changes earlier. Seeing as he is a Knight class, and he already is a great warrior even without taking to account he is associated with "being" a dragon, he's already strong in terms of power.

Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by The Red Seelie
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<Snipped quote by 1Charak2>

Yeah, I added the changes earlier. Seeing as he is a Knight class, and he already is a great warrior even without taking to account he is associated with "being" a dragon, he's already strong in terms of power.


I still believe that even with his Phantasm he should still be weaker then the phantasmal species.

*otherwise whats the point in Kiyohime*

Edit: He also doesn't have the size restriction.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Cu Chulainn
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@1Charak2

The way I see it is that while he is technically considered a member of Dragonkind while his Phantasm is activated, he doesn't have the pure strength of an actual dragon. His legend does not involve him slaying any dragons or other phantasmal beasts, and while donning his armor, he doesn't have the pure strength that an actual dragon would have. His Breath of thr Dragon, for example, isn't as strong as an actual dragon's, and he is incapable of flight, or a method of staying mid-air for a prolonged period of time.

In essence, he doesn't become the dragon when he dons his srmor, but he obtains the aspect of the dragon, in a sense.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by The Red Seelie
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@1Charak2

The way I see it is that while he is technically considered a member of Dragonkind while his Phantasm is activated, he doesn't have the pure strength of an actual dragon. His legend does not involve him slaying any dragons or other phantasmal beasts, and while donning his armor, he doesn't have the pure strength that an actual dragon would have. His Breath of thr Dragon, for example, isn't as strong as an actual dragon's, and he is incapable of flight, or a method of staying mid-air for a prolonged period of time.

In essence, he doesn't become the dragon when he dons his armor, but he obtains the aspect of the dragon, in a sense.


True. True. well Okay. that seems fair. he'll probably be as mana dependant to use it as Kiyohime.

Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Cu Chulainn
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@1Charak2

I'll add more clarification to his Noble Phantasm that he isn't considered a true Dragon, or even a mixed blood. His legend just alludes to his might on the battlefield as something akin to a Dragon.

As for the bonus effect, it was added because in Japan, his homeland, they make forms of media where he basically fights holding six katanas, to add to his legend as a "Dragon". Since holding swords like that breaches Capcom's trademarks is more an idea of the modern age, and honestly too nonsensible, I figured a boost to his legend as being akin to a Dragon would be appropriate.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by The Red Seelie
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@1Charak2

I'll add more clarification to his Noble Phantasm that he isn't considered a true Dragon, or even a mixed blood. His legend just alludes to his might on the battlefield as something akin to a Dragon.

As for the bonus effect, it was added because in Japan, his homeland, they make forms of media where he basically fights holding six katanas, to add to his legend as a "Dragon". Since holding swords like that breaches Capcom's trademarks is more an idea of the modern age, and honestly too nonsensible, I figured a boost to his legend as being akin to a Dragon would be appropriate.


Fair dos. I guess if he and Kiyohime got in a one on one fight in a vacuum Kiyohime would win by sheer overbearing might *combined with true flight*? Would be definitely hella close though.

Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Cu Chulainn
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@1Charak2

Seeing how he is an Archer made in the mold to be a bit more of a cunning fighter than a direct one, with having a huge steroid he'd rather not pop out due to it also being a huge nametag, he'd definitely lose if said vacuum means he won't be able to manuever well, considering his Eye of the Mind skill is out of the question.

Also too close for Unlimited Musket Works to take reasonable effect.

These factors are all not including Hide of the Dragon, by the way.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by The Red Seelie
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@1Charak2

Seeing how he is an Archer made in the mold to be a bit more of a cunning fighter than a direct one, with having a huge steroid he'd rather not pop out due to it also being a huge nametag, he'd definitely lose if said vacuum means he won't be able to manuever well, considering his Eye of the Mind skill is out of the question.

Also too close for Unlimited Musket Works to take reasonable effect.

These factors are all not including Hide of the Dragon, by the way.


By Vacuum I mean fighting on one on one on a battlefield like that of Iskandars noble phantasm. Long open plains. He'd be able to manuever fine. Eye of the mind is active but on an open plain against such an odd it would at must force it to a draw/phyrric victory or allow him to somehow evade/escape combat.

Even if Azure is factored in. Kyohime is still 'more' durable due to the increased strength she has and the ability to take to the skies while her hide can effectively ignore most of the muskets effectiveness. Though if he was to use his breath of the dragon, then she would have to retort in turn with her own as a defensive measure. Hers being greater in strength but it would also wear down her reserves faster. As unlike in legend this transformation is temporary. Then again he would also be burning down his reserves.

Guess it comes down to the amount of mana available to both. Because I doubt Masamune can generate his own mana as his biology is still that of a servant so he would have to work on his masters reserves. *and so forth and so forth*

In reality the fight would be pretty epic regardless of the outcome.
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