Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

[Andreyich]

@SleepingSilence
Okay you got me, but, here's this, it's "should have," not "should of." Checkmate.

[SleepingSilence]

@Andreyich Grammar nazi! :P

[Dolerman]

@SleepingSilence so you dont think racists are idiots anymore? okay.

And lol quoting a banned member who has no idea whats in my inbox.

[Andreyich]

And lol quoting a banned member who has no idea whats in my inbox

it did happen tho

[Dolerman]

@Andreyich Yeah I got reported, still doesn't make quoting shit flinger any less silly.

And its an obvious pivot from the original topic, his views on racists has clearly changed and he doesn't want to admit it.

[Andreyich]

@Andreyich Yeah I got reported, still doesn't make quoting shit flinger any less silly.

But it does, cuz saying "And lol quoting a banned member who has no idea whats in my inbox." implies denial that it did in fact happen.

[Dolerman]

<Snipped quote>
But it does, cuz saying "And lol quoting a banned member who has no idea whats in my inbox." implies denial that it did in fact happen.

@Andreyich

Well I wasnt denying it, I'm saying that the person probably knows none of the details and this is irrelevant. You read my implication wrong I'm afraid.

[Darcs]

That doesn't matter. The country they invaded was also capitalist and the people there live better now under a government that at least pretends to be secular and such. Not to mention, the war in the middle east only went on to bring huge monetary losses even if nefarious ebil American Imperialist ambitions were behind it.

@Andreyich

Funding Imperialism is bad, and I feel like it probably does matter.

We're not arguing about it's business practice but about business overall. Business puts these laws there in the first place, at most you can blame microsoft for violating laws that it - by extension - placed upon itself which is not a very smart thing to do.

@Andreyich

You don't see anything wrong with the business making the rules for itself?

But art was commodified before the existence of money; people couldn't just make it on spare time, prehistoric artists would have someone bringing them their food in exchange for their works.

@Andreyich

No, hunter-gatherers literally just did it in their free time.

It seems, that before the invention of capitalism it was already better than communism.

@Andreyich

Considering it wasn't capitalism you aren't wrong.

Not to mention, that it is the choice of the artist to monetize their art. As such, you should blame the artists rather than capitalism. I for one wouldn't mind shooting a hipster making music on soundcloud, they are annoying fucks aren't they?

@Andreyich

🔥🔥🔥

People don't suffer, they only do better by it. Communism was tried over and over (no matter how much you bitch and whine that it wasn't real communism) and it didn't work,

@Andreyich

Who the hell cares what real communism is? The system we have now ISN'T working for everyone. Also again-- Catalonia.

stop trying to destroy stable society

@Andreyich

Well this is a different issue entirely but lol no.

The environmental concern is also a kind of bullshit thing to bring up too since it's just there to make you look like the good guy freedom fighter against us ebil imperialists wanting to save the earth.

@Andreyich

Oh, fuck off. I'm not even a communist, I should specify-- just an anti-capitalist, and fairly clearly an anti-statist and it's literally for this reason. Who the hell cares how anyone looks? Society, today, is based on expansion that's not sustainable, and not nearly enough people are living outside of the capitalist systems that encourage wasteful lifestyles in first world and western nations for it not to be a problem.

In truth, socialist Chile was razing and clearing forests and Vietnam has so much fucking smog that cars are all but banned there. Communist countries are always very backwards and still haven't even heard of alternative fuel sources. So once again, Capitalists are heroes and communists are the ones turning our planet to shit.

@Andreyich

In a statist system no one can really be considered a hero-- and I think you know it's the sign of a weak argument when you try to oversimplify it like that.

We are not complicit in the crimes of the one percent, I know I'm not.

@Andreyich

I mean, we are. If want to say you're not, fine. But our lives in one way or another, fuels their crimes. So I mean, you are, lmao.

I don't eat McDonald's and I eat mama's cutlets instead, I don't drink your filthy coca cola but make my own Kvass from shit I grow in my backyard and in a few vases. So once more, you're plain wrong and your argument continuously trips up over itself.

@Andreyich

Sure.

Your points aren't really worth addressing, because it's clear there's no room for common ground or even intellectual honesty at this point.

@SleepingSilence

Well, they are. But if you don't want to address them that's fine lmao. Let me address yours.

Well you're completely wrong and know jack,

@SleepingSilence

Jeez, you sound like every subconscious thought I have in every waking moment.

and apparently can't even read like the other person that commented to me. :D I said she uses rocks and things she finds/makes. She doesn't use things you'd immediately assume is in most common jewelry...

@SleepingSilence

Okay????

And if taxes have fuck all to do with anything, why the hell do I have to answer that? Do you pay taxes?

@SleepingSilence

Yes! I pay taxes and it sucks knowing you go to jail if you don't provide financial backing for wars of exploitation, among all the other illegal shit the state conducts. How do you change the system if you're a cog of it, just by working so you don't go hungry?

Yes, they are. A singer is a professional, it makes money. THEY DID BUILD THAT. And it doesn't exploit afghan children...

@SleepingSilence

But the system they operate in does???????

Contradiction levels off the charts.

@SleepingSilence

Ah, focusing on semantics to win an internet argument eh? You might strike the killing blow to anarchists after all.

[Andreyich]

<Snipped quote by Andreyich>

Well I wasnt denying it, I'm saying that the person probably knows none of the details and this is irrelevant. You read my implication wrong I'm afraid.

@Dynamo Frokane

What you brought up was potentially of the same nature

[Dolerman]

@Andreyich I was bringing up the irrelevance of his reply to my original topic. I was lol-ing at the swift subject change with no acknowledgement of my actual point.

"You went back on yourself about something you said fairly recently"
Met with:
"You got reported"

You've seen enough debates to know a pivot when you see one.

[Andreyich]

Funding Imperialism is bad, and I feel like it probably does matter.

Point went wholly over your head, but yes it does matter; the Imperialists and Capitalists brought better life to people. That's the way of the world.

You don't see anything wrong with the business making the rules for itself?

These are self-imposed rules, separate from business law. Microsoft contradicting it's own rules doesn't mean jack shit, if you think microsoft is evil switch to ubuntu or throw out your computer, fight the system or your point is forfeit.

No, hunter-gatherers literally just did it in their free time.

That's flat out lie and historical inaccuracy, going yet further to show how wrong you are in... everything.

Considering it wasn't capitalism you aren't wrong.

It was in all points but the existence of the word.

Who the hell cares what real communism is? The system we have now ISN'T working for everyone. Also again-- Catalonia.

It's working for me. If you're too lazy/unintelligent/unmotivated/etc. to succeed in capitalism then go make a commune somewhere else. Catalonia also didn't work lol.

Oh, fuck off. I'm not even a communist, I should specify-- just an anti-capitalist, and fairly clearly an anti-statist and it's literally for this reason. Who the hell cares how anyone looks? Society, today, is based on expansion that's not sustainable, and not nearly enough people are living outside of the capitalist systems that encourage wasteful lifestyles in first world and western nations for it not to be a problem.

That's, admittedly a slightly simplified definition of communism, at least left-anarchism. Expansion is sustainable, we have a whole fucking universe, you should turn your head towards the sky for a little. Even if we weren't as expansionist shit is bound to not be enough eventually. Also, once again, without exploitation you are being even more wasteful so you get more and more wrong every syllable.

In a statist system no one can really be considered a hero-- and I think you know it's the sign of a weak argument when you try to oversimplify it like that.

he·ro
ˈhirō/Submit
noun
1.
a person who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.
"a war hero"

Well would you fucking look at that, you're wrong again.

I mean, we are. If want to say you're not, fine. But our lives in one way or another, fuels their crimes. So I mean, you are, lmao.

No I'm not. With a simple boycott of certain things and taking a bit of initiative I can make sure only good causes profit by me.

Well, they are. But if you don't want to address them that's fine lmao. Let me address yours.

Wait so you can ignore mine but Sleeping cannot ignore your's? Wew...

Yes! I pay taxes and it sucks knowing you go to jail if you don't provide financial backing for wars of exploitation, among all the other illegal shit the state conducts. How do you change the system if you're a cog of it, just by working so you don't go hungry?

It's a state. What it does is legal. Stop the hypocrisy.

But the system they operate in does???????

many don't

Ah, focusing on semantics to win an internet argument eh? You might strike the killing blow to anarchists after all.

You know, that is just a little bit ironic. Anyways, anarchists are all lazy, unfit, and unintelligent. They aren't going to topple our societies any time soon.

[SleepingSilence]

@SleepingSilence so you dont think racists are idiots anymore? okay.

And lol quoting a banned member who has no idea whats in my inbox.

@Dynamo Frokane

I just found it hilariously ironic, in retrospect because you called me creepy for being nice to someone before.

If you want me to act serious, maybe don't post out of context quotes and meme?

Not saying to take that person seriously, (nor did I care for that person because they did stir shit up for the sake of it.) Though YOU were banned in public chat before it switched to discord. So invalidating troublemakers argument, is not the one you want to make.

Didn't want to make it personal, but you keep giving me reasons to do so. <.<

[Andreyich]

@Andreyich I was bringing up the irrelevance of his reply to my original topic. I was lol-ing at the swift subject change with no acknowledgement of my actual point.

"You went back on yourself about something you said fairly recently"
Met with:
"You got reported"

You've seen enough debates to know a pivot when you see one.

@Dynamo Frokane

But you also did that out of the blue. Anyways his point was different, it was just to show that things can be taken oddly if out of context and it was given a personal flavour for emphasis. But, I'll let him fight his own shit since he's on.

[Dolerman]

@SleepingSilenceIm not denying anything youre saying here. Its all true enough.

But I'm not getting personal, I'm asking you now to clarify something you said.

You said racists are idiots and they don't read history books.

Do you still feel that way?

[Dolerman]

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

But you also did that out of the blue. Anyways his point was different, it was just to show that things can be taken oddly if out of context and it was given a personal flavour for emphasis. But, I'll let him fight his own shit since he's on.

@Andreyich

Yeah I can start things out of the blue and so can he, my issue is only with my direct point being completely dodged, which is strange because he's never done that before when we've argued .

[SleepingSilence]

@Darcs Are you arguing that we shouldn't have taxes? Because that's not what I'd expect coming from you.

You assumed something, and I pointed out you're wrong. That's why it's okay?????

You aren't giving me any meat that isn't rotten to chew on. So what else do I have but to point out all the holes in your paper thin arguments...

And no system will work for "everyone" it doesn't exist. And business should be able to run their businesses. A lemonade stand run by kids shouldn't need a goddamn permit. In the same fashion that people with 50 employees shouldn't NEED to provide medical care, in the same way MCDonalds doesn't need to pay staff 15 bucks an hour. Don't like that companies policies? Competition and free market has the solution for you.

No, the system doesn't oppress people...We don't 'steal' oil, we trade it for a lot of money per barrel. It's a bunch of easily proven false misinformation that I'm picking apart for no reason, because I can't change your mind.

America is the wealthiest nation and it's not even close. Not to sound elitist. But it's just a fact, the system is clearly working...

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane I mean kind of yes. How else would it spread? <.<

But those quotes were out a sarcastic response to a meme. (pretty sure both, if not at least the idiot one.) So taking those quotes, with somebody that I wasn't kidding? (i think.)

You don't see a problem with that? And it's also not exactly adding to the conversation either. -.-

[Dolerman]

@SleepingSilence hang on so you do think racists are idiots but you saying idiot was sarcastic?

And its not really about the current conversation, I just wanted to know if you still hold a position when faced with someone who clearly isnt stupid, but a self admitted racist. I imagine that could cause some dissonance and I wonder how you approached that.

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane Why yes, sarcasm can be used in a joking manner and still be based in truth. :D

"You have to be highly educated to be that stupid." Is an accurate statement. You don't have to be "dumb" in the way you're trying to use it. But you denying ignorance and lacking to learn about others cultures, isn't the primary cause of racism, is just wrong. :/

[Dolerman]

@Dynamo Frokane Why yes, sarcasm can be used in a joking manner and still be based in truth. :D

"You have to be highly educated to be that stupid." Is an accurate statement. You don't have to be "dumb" in the way you're trying to use it. But you denying ignorance and lacking to learn about others cultures, isn't the primary cause of racism, is just wrong. :/

@SleepingSilence

But wouldnt you say based on the arguments that he's made that he actually knows quite a lot about other cultures and thats why he feels the way he does.