ActRaiserTheReturned

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I actually want to stop talking about this and walk agree disagreeing, but agreeing to disagree.

I don't agree about the Bible supporting rape.

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Magic Magnum said
It was an example meant to be highlighting that it's discriminating against something you are and can't control.Now it seems to be getting circular there though, since you think homosexuality can be cured while I think it's something genetic and sticks around.So let me approach it from this way instead, outside of God saying that it's wrong what is actually bad about Homosexuality?@Bible Preference: Fair enough.@Homosexuality: Well if we wish to resolve this conversation and understand each other, rather than simply ending it here that seems to be the direction we need to go in.But before I do that I also feel the need to ask, define what you mean by Heterosexual and Homosexual acts before marriage.Do you mean sexual intercourse? Do you mean dating, kissing, simply being attracted?

Okay well allegedly, homosexuality is far more dangerous as far as STD's go than heterosexuality. But as for attraction, it's not a sin to just be attracted to the same sex. It is, however, a sin to have lustful attraction, filling your head with pornographic thoughts (Just like heterosexuality), etcetera. But I'll note, I'm not talking about Ex-Gay Therapy, necessarily, that is, in regards to Jesus changing a sinner. I think that the Ex-Gay type of ministry has it's place, but I"m more or less saying that God can do anything if he wanted. If he wanted to change us into a cat, he could. If he wanted to change us from a gay person to a straight person, he could. But the Bible specifically states that as far as our sin nature goes, God's will is to do anything to change us from our sinful state to a place that's closer to God. It doesn't matter how intrinsic to someone's being it is. So even when it comes to your sexuality, God, can change you.

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Magic Magnum said
I get what you're saying.About 4 years ago I was a Christian who said the same stuff about Homosexuality.But look at it this way.Homosexuality is a sin.But Heterosexuality isn't a sin.That ultimately means one (Hetero) is better than the other (Homo) and that Heterosexuality is therefore a true and right sexuality while the others are flawed and wrong.It's the same as saying being black is a sin, but white isn't. Even if the being black was wrapped up with everything else, you'd still look at that and go "That's pretty unfair and discriminating to Black People".

The Bible doesn't say Jesus wants to change your skin color. He wants to change YOU. He's not changing you, really, if he changes your skin color. But he's changing who you are if he's changing part of your sin nature.

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It's just that it doesn't seem like discrimination when the Bible mentions everyone a long together, literally, with homosexuals, since we all not only sin but are headed towards the same consequences.

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Magic Magnum said
"Yeah, I agree too. I don't believe that you should be cruel to anyone you disagree with. God gave Sodom and Gomorrah time and time again to repent, this was back in the Old Testament when God was always on a punishing spree. That is Christianity attacking Homosexuality right there.Even if your argument is "Only those who actually act on their sexuality are condemned". That's basically saying "Do not be who you are, if you act as who you are you will be punished".

I can see what you're saying but then the Bible comes along with the message of the Gospel about how God can change your very being and the essence of who you are via Jesus.

It comes all the way from the minor little crimes like white lies and nickel stealing I mentioned, up all the way to being a genocidal bastard who murders people. Homosexuals are included.

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I never said the Bible didn't attack homosexuality of unrepentant homosexuals.

In fact, all sinners who are unrepentant face the eternal barbecue as sitters on the grill. If you ever lied, stolen so much as a nickel, etcetera, you're going. :/

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Ichthys said
I personally think a few distinctions need to be made.Are we talking about with those sexual orientations, of those who identify with either orientation or that are the orientations?Also, once that distinguishment is made, in what meaning of the word are we using "discrimination" (and the related words)? What do we mean when we use it? Are we comparing the items and saying one is better than the other? Are we simply saying they are different but equal? Perhaps the word is even being used in another meaning?Finally, once those two distinctions are made, what is really being debated here, using the prior distinctions to figure this out?As an outside observer, I'm confused over where some of the civil debate has headed, so I'm asking for these distinctions for my sake and the debate's sake.

I think that what I mean is that one "item" is different, and flawed in the specified way of being "homosexual" but that the "item" is equal to the other flawed, but heterosexual item. It's like, I believe that homosexuals have a different sin than I do, but I don't believe that I"m better than they are, even though my sexuality is what I consider better than their's. Sexuality is important, but it's not an indicator of who is better than whom.

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This discrimination game is just sub-concious, or uninformed semantics play.

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Magic Magnum said
It may not be out of spite or prejudice, and it may very well be just what you think.But if you go around saying Homosexuality is a sin, but your's isn't it's Discrimination.It may be with decent intentions, but you're still treating something they are born with as if it is something bad and be forgiven for. It's like me saying "I think being black is a sin. I keep it in my head, and I still love black people. But being Black is a sin".

Okay then, my response is "So what"? Should we forsake our own conscience and religious beliefs just because it hurts someone's feelings? If you think so, then you may as well support Orwellian Thought Police.

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Protagonist said
As one man once said, you don't have to accept everything about a person's lifestyle in order to love them, conversely, if you don't approve somebody's lifestyle, that doesn't mean you hate or fear them.

True. Also, just because you're internally discerning about something in your mind, doesn't mean that you are doing so out of prejudice or spite.