Galavani

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I'd like to propose a thought experiment.

There are a bunch if people stuck on an island. All of normal intelligence. They know as much about wilderness survival and escape as your average person.

Except one guy.

He's a scientist, clearly capable of rational thought. Without his efforts, many of the medicines we enjoy today would not exist. He also knows a lot about survival and getting help in a stranded setting. However he's also superstitious, and believes in faeries. He also thinks that all imagination comes from another dimension, and he's invested money in creating a device that can open up a portal to that other world.

When everyone is rescued, he alone is credited for everyone's salvation. He made sure everyone had water to drink and food to eat, and he also devised the device that successfully called for help.

Is he smart or stupid?

@BrokenPromise

An alaskan wolf would survive longer in a snowy alaskan forest with no technology than you would, is an alaskan wolf smarter than you?

Which of these 'popular' lablels do you associate with?

@Dynamo Frokane So basically you are saying that because he is a creationist, he is unfit to rule the country. Therefore your solution is to write him off as stupid, and in the process, write off creationists as stupid?

What if I told you that there's a better solution, namely not voting for him?

Do you feel that Socrates or Da Vinci were smart men? Surely so, right? They're some of the smartest men we've known in history.

Then you'd feel blessed to know they are both creationists and believed it 100%. Ergo, smartest men in the world were also creationists. Ergo, not every creationist is a babbling idiot that rams on and on about 6 days.

@Buddha

Intelligence is relative to the time, the caveman who invented the wheel isnt fit to be a 2016 senator is he? Lets be grown up about this.

Young earth/biblical creationism, the idea that false biblical claims are true is aggressively ignroant, and in the face of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary is stupid. In the same way that thinking the earth is flat is stupid, in the same way that thinking the world is in the center of the universe is stupid. Some ideas are just stupid. If anyone is triggered by being called an idiot when they say idiotic things then they should be on the internet let alone a presidential race.

And lets be clear, Hilary Clinton gets called a Shill, Crook, Bitch, Reptile, Cunt, Spineless AND Stupid ALL the time by the opposition, I personally dont have a problem with it, but maybe you guys should start standing up for her humanism in the comments section of her speeches, you know just to stay consistent.

Which of these 'popular' lablels do you associate with?

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@Jotunn Draugr

I can meme too.

Which of these 'popular' lablels do you associate with?

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Dude, you're hearing what you want to hear, and have missed the point on everything I said. I might as well be talking to a brick wall. And to top if off, you're being an elitist prick about it.

"Sweet dreams, lilac."

@Jotunn Draugr

I'm not hearing anything, I'm reading.

If thinking stupid flat earth nonsense is stupid makes me an elitist, then I wear the elitist badge proudly, prick.

Which of these 'popular' lablels do you associate with?

@Jotunn Draugr You havent adressed my points and comparisons(Stork and Flat Earth, Stupid Ideas of Liberals, Ability to run a country) so sadly the discussion ends here, plus you are calling creationism a religous tradition after admitting this has nothing to do with religion. Stick to the Trump stuff, this might not be your bag.

Which of these 'popular' lablels do you associate with?

@Jotunn Draugr

Well you dont know the man personally so lets not start calling him polite, or that he saves kittens in his spare time. There is not enough time to consider every wacky alternative view, would you honestly be taking him just as seriously if he thought that the stork delivered babies or that the earth was flat? These arent even religous veiwpoints by the way.

And you are presenting a false dhicotomy, everyone who isnt a creationist is an 'elitst' unless you are calling everyone with a school level understanding of science an elitist. I'm not saying Ben Carson is an evil man because he has stupid ideas, but a stupid idea is a stupid idea. You roast democrats and liberals on far less for their opinions on how they think the world should be run, I dont call you an elitist for not considering the perspectives of a socialist or a communist. You've clearly considered the views and you think they are dumb, hence you dont think they should run the country, regardless of their academic acheivements in economics.

And this 'huge portion' thing is a lie, most people ARE NOT creationists. Most Christians believe in evolution and the scientific method, and most people who believe in the scientific method ARE christians. You undermine everyday church going people when you attactch creationism to their wordviews, your majesty.

Which of these 'popular' lablels do you associate with?

@Dynamo Frokane and science is your only method of measuring levels of 'smartness'? You don't think a creationist can be clever, genius in their own way, for example philosophies, spiritual guidance to troubled people, maths, literature, history, etcetera.

I think you're thinking too much about this on the religious side. Religion has nothing to do with ones capabilities to be smart or not. History has proven that time and time again. You claim that these people go against science but you yourself are going against history, which in my eyes is a far more clear sign of stupidity.

There are many benefits to religion that have nothing to do with religion. Social ties. Helping troubled people. Providing guidance for those that need. Providing hope for those that can't find it elsewhere. Creationism doesn't mean you're stupid. It just means you have a different idea on the world.

Your lack of being able to process that, that too signals to me that you're not yet mature enough to even consider entering a discussion with these people.

It reminds me of what Trump said when he used Mussolini (the father of fascism) his quote 'better to live one day as a lion than a hundred as a sheep' or something among those lines.

'It's a great quote,' and with that I want to say; even dumb people can say genius things, even geniuses make mistakes and/or say stupid things, even evil people have a shred of good, and even good people have evil hidden deep inside of them.

Discrediting people based on their religious views - well, let me say, it already puts you in the same department as you put them in. Listen to what people say and not to who you think they are.

It might work wonders for you.

@Buddha

Get off the soapbox and see what I'm actually adressing.

Like I said, this hasnt got anything to do with god and very little to do with religion, most christians arent creationists, there is a difference between having a belief in a higher being and being willfully ignorant to proven facts.

Its not about being mostly smart or mostly stupid, its about how a lack of rational thinking and skepticism makes you unfit to be a president. If a guy was a master chess player but thought that babies were delivered by the stork or that the earth was flat we would rightfully call him an idiot. You dont get a pass on saying ignorant things just because you do well in other areas, it speaks to your level of reason and logic.

So yes I do discredit Ben Carson as a presidential candidate or even as politician, where you need more than brain surgery to be effective at your job. If you want to belive in a god FINE, if you want to believe in a christian god, FINE. But if you are going to try and assert blatant untruths about basic facts about the world and try and influence a nation based off of that, then you are a moron.

Facts dont care about your holy book.

Which of these 'popular' lablels do you associate with?

@Dynamo Frokane you do realize that there's more than 1 form of creationism?

@Buddha

Yes and they are all different shades of stupid, some are more ridiculous than others but they are all ultimately undermining science in one way or another.

But I was speaking specifically about Ben Carson's creationism. He CLAIMS not to think the world is 6000 years old but he more just dodges the question when it comes up, but as mentioned above he thinks the world was created in 6 days, not very logical, brain surgeon or not.

Which of these 'popular' lablels do you associate with?

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There's a lot of really stupid atheists out there, but I wouldn't say they're stupid because they're atheist.

@Buddha

Atheism VS Theism is a different thing, you dont get plus or minus points for either as you cant really prove if there is or isnt a god either way, its sort of just what reasoning you use to presume which is more logical.

Creationism DOES make you stupid, as creationism isnt a simple as I believe in a higher power, its anti-scientific biblical literalism. Its believing things that have been proven false. The correct correlation would be creationism vs rationalism or scientific method. Any one running for president who thinks god 'magicked' the world in 6 days is a moron, period.

Which of these 'popular' lablels do you associate with?

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Really? Looks like almost every poll says that he won.

Personally, I thought it was a wash. They both came out looking horrible. He had her in the beginning on trade, and she was stuttering over herself trying to think of a comeback, but then the moderator started outright arguing with Trump closer to the end, and he had to completely go on the defensive. Hillary really just through out accusations faster than Trump could dispute them, but he seemed actually more solid on specific policies.

What's your take?

@Jotunn Draugr

Well the internet polls are sort of dominated by the young male demographic, a good portion of hilary's supporters are old women who dont use the internet like that, so I'll wait for the official polls before I make a judgement.

Just to add I have no bias here, while you and @j8cob are actual Trump supporters (nothing wrong with that) I dont actually care who wins, not my country and either way not much is going to happen in 4 years whoever wins.

But as far as the debate, Trump was good with some funny one liners and clearly had more passion but in every other aspect he was floundering, he couldnt make the email jab stick, his trade policy seemed to be non-existent beyond "Dont give our jobs to China" with zero followup. His bit on the police was okay, I'd say he and hilary sort of tied there. But over all he was definately losing his cool, I know a lot of people point to the moderator being biased but he only kept interrupting Donald because he couldnt keep his mouth shut while hilary was talking AND kept going over his own time, you get treated based on your behaviour.

As far as personals go, Trump had the upper-hand, he is funnier and quicker with his jabs and arguably had more to work with. Hilary's attempt at wit is tepid at best and cringey at worst, she cant hang with Donald when it comes to insults.

But the fact of it is, that its a presidential debate and not a comedy roast, and the oppurtunites for attacks were so far and few between it left Donald floundering a lot, because he is just a little to simplistic when it comes to polices, being a 'straight talker' made him look dumb when trying to explain how the economy would work.

So I'd give it to Hilary by fair margian, not a total knockout but a solid win. We will see how the next 3 rounds go.