LeeRoy

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You're really trying this full on: "LeeRoy's the devil, he doesn't agree with my opinion so he must reject all those who enter and try to voice their opinion. He's intentionally alienating a subgroup because of an opinion that someone else has."

Except the real truth is:
LeeRoy finds the discussion about whether or not guns are balanced actually stupid. Even if I disagree with you; My opinion, and by association your opinion, don't fuckin' matter. Nobody has to agree with what anyone else has to say.

Nobody has to agree with anybody.
Being offended just means you're not in charge of your own emotions.
Censorship is stupid.

And arguing is really just a method for people to vent frustrations about a topic all while Demonizing the person they're arguing with.

Alright?

We won't agree on this, and I'm literally the last person to say this, I love arguing.

But we should finish this argument now, because it's just going to keep circling into itself.

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This isn't a matter of opinion, this is a matter of:

Everyone understands the absurdity of superhuman abilities, even with numbers or lack of numbers behind them. And saying that guns are superior to Captain America x 5 characters because they have the potential to instantly kill them ruins the fun of it. Guns aren't high tier because nobody wants a fight to end instantly with a single gunshot.

It wasn't a problem before, because it was fun before.

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Man this stuff constantly happens, like, monthly.

Someone brings up something that wasn't a problem before they bring it up, and make it into a problem.

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It's really not, on the 'undervalued' note. Trust me, I argue against the "Speed's the greatest stat." Thing.

And besides, I'll give a point blank character who can survive a bullet at low tier and doesn't even need to move faster than 120 mph. Anyone whose build suggests cat like acceleration, who can accelerate from zero to some odd mph I'd say at about 3x the speed of humans. Which is visibly obvious when you see a cat bolt when surprised, as well as the seemingly impossible correction while they're falling through the air. (Landing on their feet.)

As well, heightened reflexes. At 120x human reflexes. Not unreasonable for a twink build like this to have, seeing as they have no other noteworthy ability than being fast and agile.

With this character being wholly aware that they're about to be shot, they would be prepared to move. A flash of light, their reflexes kick in, they shift their center of weight to the side and push away. The shot misses them by about an inch or so, and they're able to immediately counter attack because they're able to accelerate again once they stop moving.

To be perfectly clear, the character I'm describing is a hyper-sentient cat that can run at 120 mph.

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I used the sports car as a frame of reference for movement speed, not acceleration speed. Human acceleration speed is wildly different from car because we're less than a 10th the weight, and a totally different shape. Wind and shit, come on man.

As well, we're still talking about low tier supers. We're not talking about normals. At twice the speed of Usain bolt, you could dodge a bullet at 500 feet.

At the tiers being presented here, low and lower end intermediate, dodging a bullet is not only a feasible feat, it's fairly easy for a balanced speed and strength character. Let's mark this down as someone who's speed class is exactly at the end of Low Tier, so he's being pushed into the lower Echelons of Intermediate because he has different stats.

He's got a movement speed of 300 mph, with an acceleration of around. . .Gimme a sec.

117.6 meters per second. Alternatively 263.06 mph.

There's your bare bones lower end intermediate Speedster, and the only thing barring him from low tier is a few mph over the limit, and a few other stats.

If I were to totally concoct a character to match the exact stats required to make guns wildly useless, they would still be a low tier.

Guns CAN be low tier.

Guns CAN be high tier.

It just depends on who's using it, and what the caliber is.

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Double posts, I thought these were fixed!

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Click here.

Mythbusters did a similar test. At 500 feet, you would need to be able to react twice as fast as the record holder fastest human. Usain Bolt. At 100 feet, you would only need to be 10x as fast as the world record holder. Which is, guess what. Only about as fast as a sports car.

Not 2800x the speed of a sports car.

Because a human can accelerate their body almost instantly, where as a car can't.

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Negligible as in, it only doubles the time taken. It still only increases the amount by about 2 maybe 2.3x. This is still an impossibly short period of time. Human reaction speed is only so much.

And yeah, policing human error isn't easy. However, there's really no perfect way to establish balance in a written competitive environment.

If you totally balance it, it restricts the writing.
If you try to balance it, it restricts the characters.
If you let it go free, it restricts competition.

Edit: Guns are fine at low tier too! They're fine at every tier because the viability of a weapon that only has a linear aim and narrow strike zone is limited, they're fine at every tier because the viability of a weapon used by a normal person or even a superhuman is limited only to the abilities of the user.

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With superhumans, the acceleration time would be negligible. Likely a similar number to the crossing time. So double the crossing time and you've still only got 2 seconds+ at 100 feet.

Though to also point out something you neglected, human error. With humans not being able to fully resist the recoil, as well as their potential inaccuracy depending on stress level, technique, and training.

Also, you don't have to quote every time you reply to someone. It just makes the thread harder to scroll through.

Edit: Even further I've disproven the 'higher level' point already. Which is what I was trying to get across in the first place. These aren't even intermediate tier characters that are crossing this gap in such a short period of time. These are low tier characters.

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The answer to your question is math of my own.

A normal human being with a BELOW average running speed of 10 mph. Can cross 10 feet in less than 1 second. As 10mph translates into 14 fps.

The person being rushed has less than 1 second to react. While that's not unreasonable, people can fire guns that quickly, we're talking about a superhuman and a normal human.

Let's amp the math up. 10 mph can cross 100 feet in about 7 seconds.

Let's amp the speed up. To Olympian levels.

20 mph.

100 feet in 3.5 seconds.

Record breaking speeds.

30 mph.

100 feet in 1.75 seconds.

Superhuman speeds.

50 mph.

100 feet in 1.3.

Let's put this onto Godfrey's flight speed.

60 mph.

1.13 seconds.

These would all still be under the LOW tier speeds listed in the Nexus of Worlds Multiverse hosted by Skallagrim a while back. These aren't even the peak of that Tier.

Your average sports car can move at 200 to 220 mph. So let's do the math at that.

.03 seconds to cross 100 feet.

I restate my point from before.

Guns don't kill people in the Arena.
People kill people in the Arena.