Lugubrious

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

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http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/#atop

Articles 1, 3 and 25 might be interesting for you. 25 is even the right for medical care.

Also, the German budget is about 300 billion Euros. Today that would be about $310 Billion. The US requested budget for 2015 is $3.9 Trillion. 22% of that is a lot. We have 11% and an unemployment rate of 6.2% decreasing very quickly.

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And that is bad why? Isn't it the main task of a country to provide the best quality of life for their citizens as possible?

@PyroDash888

That would be why, then. That's a United Nations declaration. If medical care is in their constitution, no wonder it's so prevalent among european countries.

Then the US is paying a lot more than Germany in health care for its citizens already, and it's not even single-payer. I don't see why you're complaining.

The Affordable Care act wasn't the way to go about it in my opinion. It's driving the US further into debt. A prerequisite of 'quality of life' is 'life', which defense affords, and defense is already prioritized less than health care as it is. I wouldn't want the balance to swing even further.

I think I've said about all I've came here to say, and I think you're in the same boat. I'm glad to see an ideological counterpart whose profession of tolerance actually extends to people with different political ideologies. It's something you don't often see in an age where conservatism is often outright dismissed by those who claim to be receptive to new ideas. SO, kudos to you. It's time for all of us to refocus our attention on RPing.

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

Yeesh, we got so heated, we drew in a lurker. Though I always appreciate another perspective in a debate, Plank, we're starting to wind down I think, and it might have been better if you didn't introduce yourself with an accusation. That said, I don't know if we have any open slots in this RP currently. IF you really want in, it might take some creativity to work you in.

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Yep, not in the slightest. It's a mental tick I have. I can't take anything serious on the internet.

@KabenSaal

I could probably learn to take a page from your book, honestly. If I hadn't gotten so serious, I'll bet some upset could have been avoided.

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

So, basically, history is what you make of it, and everyone is, or has the potential to be a lying asshole for something that happened so long ago.

Got it.

@KabenSaal

This statement in no way addresses or reflects any comments made by either Lucius or me. You're not taking this seriously.

Well, the rules where certainly right. Excessive off topic stuff was met with unhappy frowns all around.

@KabenSaal

Heh, I did warn you.

I am aware of part of what the USA has done, @Pyrodash888, and I suspect I won't ever stop learning new and depressing things. Though I do defend it, I am not blind to its faults and mistakes. History may be written by the victors, but lesser heard versions are also written by the losers, and I will read them both if I can.

In conclusion...

I am happy to call this entire ordeal quits. The United States is hardly a perfect country, with a dubious past at times, but what country isn't? Today is a day I will drink Doctor Pepper to celebrate what good it has done, and I hope that even if we don't see eye to eye, we can at least continue to be friends.

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

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1. I can say for certain that I have more knowledge than you about this topic, so you do have to believe me. The European countries are doing way better economically than the US. The US loses as much money per day as Germany is in debt. And Greece is like 250 billion in debt. That's basically peanuts. And when people are dying because they cannot afford a doctor this is absolutely unacceptable and violates the first human right. "The dignity of a human being must be preserved" And such a thing is just so backwards. We don't live in the fucking 19th century anymore.
And I also think you have a wrong image of health care in Europe. It is not "free" per se. A fixed amount is payed by the Employer and another fixed amount is deducted from your wage to pay to your insurance company, which is only slightly subsidized.

2. To military spending:
I think these two graphics picture perfectly what is wrong with the US military spending.



Military spending of the US vs the rest of the world (washington post)

@PyroDash888

You're telling me that because you apparently know more than I already, after barely any debate, that I must believe you without sources? I must confess, I've never seen the list of 'human rights' outlined anywhere other than the US Constitution. The one you quoted intrigues me. I suppose 'dignity' means 'health'? People are starting to die in Australia, where socialized medicine has been the norm for a while. So few people are paying into the system, and so many are riding on it, that the government has no money to pay for all the health care and benefits are getting slashed. This information I received in part from a fellow guild member, Caits, an Australian citizen. Please, no need for crass language.

I don't remember saying 'free' health care. I know it's not free, because it costs money. That money is paid via taxes, by employers and employees alike, and in some European countries up to 50% of income is taken in taxes, perhaps more. The government then covers the residents.

The chart you've cited is 'proposed', and for two years ago. The current administration hasn't passed a budget in years, just continuing resolutions, and here's the current one, from an official site:


That's more on both health care and pensions than defense in the US.

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

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I actually was referring to the people that where already there at the time. And the Pilgrim Fathers left England because it wasn't catholic enough for them. And when they got there and saw that people where already present, they killed them and stole their stuff.

@KabenSaal

The Pilgrims were Protestant, fleeing Catholicism and Anglicanism (English Catholicism). They weren't the only group either, not even the only English group. Just the most well known one. France and Spain also got in on the New World in force. It would be a lie to deny that atrocities took place against American Indians, but the pilgrims were hardly genocidal. More natives died from accidentally transferred diseases than bayonets or buckshot, and many English settlements lived in peace and separation from the natives. To say that the Pilgrims were Catholic and murderers and thieves is, like most generalizations, inaccurate and inapplicable to the whole.

Those who loath American values and attitudes are quick to use them, however.

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

Anything that costs money is not a right, it is a commodity. I don't know what stats you've been looking at, but the economies of European countries right now are downright awful. Only Germany and Britain are even industrial nations anymore. Just look how well socialized medicine is working for Greece at the moment.

The military in the US employs millions of people. Cut it off, and you've got even more people stuffed into a poor job market. Plus, there's the whole war going on right now against an extremist group that wants to kill us for our basic ideals of freedom.

Kaben, I suppose you are right--fighting to break free from a position beneath the foot of tyrannical colonial rule involved murder, and taking away land and resources from a cross-country British empire to establish an independent nation was theft. If you're going to sling insults and generalizations rather than actually contribute to a debate, then you may be silent.

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

The current administration certainly isn't helping the lack of money. The Affordable Care Act means we're spending far more money (on entitlements) than we're taking in. If people continue to be blind to the principle of spending less than we earn, there's a very real chance that we'll continue to fall economically. Because most of the debts are in-country, however, I doubt China is going to just buy us out.

Believing that Americans are better than everyone else isn't patriotism. It's egotism. Pride in a country's accomplishments is. Like it or hate it, the world would be a very different place without America.

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

There's actually a substantial movement in certain American cities to ban the American flag, chiefly because as a statement of national solidarity and pride, it is offensive to foreigners.

I question the sanity of people sometimes.

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

I'm slightly confused...is it your implication that we are stupid generalization-makers, who'd vilify you for the tiniest semblance of nationalism? I highly doubt that is the case.

Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

Being proud of one's country does't automatically make a person an extremist, Pyro. If you posted a picture supportive of Germany, anyone who cried nazism would be utterly reprehensible.

Is that directed at me as well?

@Pannette

Yeah.