mdk

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by mdk>

I know right? Can you believe that this sort of heinous crap was only 7 years back? I'm glad we have completely cleared up discrimination in that time period.

@Penny

Even before that though, I was looking for documented examples of it actually happening and I found three. And in two of them, the person got to come in anyway after a brief (but wildly offensive) forced-absence, and in the third case it wasn't someone on their deathbed but someone with a fever.

My point being, you know, Democrats used to string black people up from trees and light them on fire. PERSPECTIVE. A little bit of perspective here. It's not so bad these days, really.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

I'm sorry that you had those experiences. I've watched people die in hospital beds, knowing that their partners don't have a legal right to be there, knowing they were going to receive no life insurance, knowing that they had no right to their partners body.

@Penny

You do realize that that hasn't been a thing for like 7 years?

stat.ucla.edu/~cochran/pdf/MentalHeal…
www2.psych.ubc.ca/~schaller/Psyc591Re…
npc.umich.edu/publications/workingpap…
Sorry about that, shouldn't have been so lazy and only used anecdotes. ^^

@NightinGem

Are you googling these? They're (1) about self-reported discrimination compared against mental health which is, uh...... a goes-both-ways sort of conclusion, (2) an article about racism from Y2K, and (3) a term paper ACTUAL RESEARCH PAPER BY AN ACTUAL PhD, my mistake -- but also an article on racism. POINT BEING all pretty tangential. Support that argument! The Pulse Nightclub Shooting, for instance. Actual mass murder of gay people for being gay. That's a real thing that really happened in the real actual USA and it's fucking disgusting. And see? Cased closed. Violent homophobia is demonstrably real and deadly.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

@mdk I'm a disabled lesbian foster kid who lives in a homeless shelter~ And I'm not trying to best you out in "oppression points" or whatever (though I probably do lmao), what I was trying to say is that people are blatantly trying to deny the oppression which queer people face to a queer person. Love the ad hominem btw, I apologize if I've fucked us and gotten a bit salty in the past but I'm trying to argue mostly based on what we're saying.

@NightinGem

I didn't mean to cut into the thing there. Y'all are having a conversation. I'm just making some jokes.

FWIW -- you're using a lot of anecdotes, which (objectively speaking here) is weak argument method. Cite some real cases -- you'll absolutely win the argument that prejudice exists in America (because of fucking course it does, christ).

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

(Edit: lol checking everyone's profiles I'm currently the only progressive around. Hope y'all have fun trying to convince a 18 year old lesbian that she doesn't deserve any legal protection/hasn't been legitimately discriminated against/etc. Meanwhile, I'mma use a combination of empathy and fact. :))

@NightinGem

I'm disabled. I outrank you in oppression points.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

I dunno what you two are talking about, we have always been at war with Eastasia.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

This is some 1984, Brave New World kinda' shit.

@Dark Wind

No no, they changed the meaning. 1984 is about republicans now. it is known.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

I can force people to care about them, even if it is just to think about it a minute before they make their insensitive statement. There will always be people like @NightinGem who take up the fight for the rights of minority groups. I can support her financially by contributing to charities and legal defense funds and the like. I can make it a point to stress to every intern I teach that trans rights and sensitivity to others are important. I can give my pronouns before every lecture to demonstrate my privilege as a cis-woman. Oh I won't get all of them, some will roll their eyes but I'll get some and I only have to get enough to reach a threshold that will snowball. I'f I ever become a citizen I can even vote.

I can make it harder for people to be openly trans-phobic or insensitive. I can levy a social cost for such behavior. Once upon a time it was much easier to be a homophobe for example, but the social cost has risen as a result of raised awareness, of activism, and of positive media portrayals from Hollywood.

For me, being progressive, means constantly pushing forward wherever I can. Look at how far Western (and by extention American) society has come, women's suffrage, civil rights, gay marriage and this is in just a century! Conservatives of various stripes have opposed every single one of these moves repeatedly but they have slowly been overcome. There have been set backs, even defeats, maybe even severe defeats, but if we just stay the course, we can create a world that is more just, more kind and more progressive than that the one our mothers bequeathed to us.

Hopefully, one day I'll be sitting at dinner with my great grand daughter and she will say to me (in words which have radically shifted in meaning and nuance from my own youth): Great Grandmother, don't you think that joke about your great grandsons sentient robot life partner was a bit insensitive?

And hopefully Ill have the where with all to sit back, look a little chagrined and reply: Yes great grand daughter, I'm sorry how very conservative of me.

@Penny

But at least you're not religious or nothing, that would be crazy.

Objective fact and sympathy/empathy--let us discuss difficult subjects with both!

<Snipped quote by mdk>

I gotta make this real clear. I AM NOT ADVOCATING BRAINWASHING (especially considering that it is largely ineffective). My earlier posts tried to remain neutral which may have caused confusion as to my intent. I can not think of any situation where brainwashing is a preferred method, or any other similar mean to control the populace for that matter.

@Lurking Shadow

Alright help me understand what you're talking about, because based on what I'm reading, "brainwashing" seems like a fair summary. Not trying to put words in your mouth though. What, exactly, do you mean?

Objective fact and sympathy/empathy--let us discuss difficult subjects with both!

@mdk

I feel similar to what @Odin thinks.

The benefits of Democracy is limited by the knowledge of the voters. Socrates compares society to a ship in an example...

<Snipped quote by Socrates>

In order for Democracy to be beneficial, the voters must be informed of the issues and the best way to deal with them. Without knowledge, many things can arise from Democracy. Hitler, for example, was able to exploit the fears of the German people to the point where his party had total control.

@Lurking Shadow

Citing Hitler as justification for your brainwashing class is precisely exploiting the fears of the (not-German) people to the point where your party gets total control.

Control is the virus, Hitler is just a really terrible symptom. You can't beat future-hypothetical-minihitler by enhancing the amount of control such a person would ultimately get. "Informing people of the best way to deal with the issues" is a means to WHATEVER end -- remember, Hitler 'informed' his people about exactly those things.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

confirmed: Belarussians have no souls.