mdk

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

So, to begin, let me just put out a disclaimer: I've been a little out of the loop lately, so I might not be right in the end and I'm okay with that. I'm always ready to learn. That being said, some of the sources you have cited aren't credible. There might be inklings of truth in some of them, but if they aren't honest or objective from the get-go, I can't be certain what is true and what is not without in-depth research and that's not the kind of time I want to be spending for a political conversation with a stranger on a roleplaying forum.

• The Medium article you cited has been using coded or outright biased language in order to persuade the reader toward a certain conclusion (e.g. "...we have known about these facts since they emerged from Clapper’s racist face hole on May 8..."), so to save time, I'm gonna outright ignore it. Which might mean I'll miss out on some truth, but for all I know, it could also be all croc... and that's speaking as a liberal about a left-leaning website.
• The Daily Caller, has a history of right-heavy bias and sensationalist headlines, so nope. But hey, kudos to you for being diverse and nonpartisan in your source picking.

And a bunch of the other articles either don't relate to or support the theory of foreign involvement in her 2016 campaign (or her 2008 campaign, as far as I can tell). Like those donations to the Clinton Foundation which were outside of the nation's election periods can't possibly have any strong link to either campaign - and it doesn't matter in this case that she took and kept money by a sexual offender, and that's speaking as a survivor myself. By no means am I defending Clinton as an ethical person or her Foundation as an ethical organization, but those sources don't support your claim of foreign involvement in this last election season.

The best article you've given is the one by The Hill where the Clinton campaign apparently colluded with Ukraine officials. The Hill being a good, solid source. My only problem is that there are few other sources with the same credibility supporting the same story without bias, so I have to be open to the possibility that it may not be true or that I am not getting all of the information about Ukraine's involvement.

In the case where I'm wrong, I stand corrected and thank you for bringing that information to my attention. But otherwise, there is a lot of misleading information in your case which leads me to wonder if you have your own bias in simply wanting to see Clinton fail.

Like I said, I have no love for the former Secretary of State or the DNC. And yes, Clinton carries with her a metric SHIT-TON of baggage that looks very damning and can easily lead someone to some conclusions... but among it, there simply isn't enough hard proof of foreign involvement in her 2016 campaign for me to settle on a definitive conclusion.

@Spoopy Scary

Let's apply that same standard to the Trump campaign. What's your definitive conclusion there?

Remember, Manafort, the Trump guy they're needling for foreign involvement, is currently indicted for activities he undertook on behalf of the Ukraine, during his time with Podesta Group -- Podesta, as in Hillary's campaign manager.

EDIT: as an aside, everything I just linked is a matter of record. Some of it, like Uranium One, we're still waiting o more info, but the part of the story we've got on record so far is very damning. You should definitely look into these things on your own time. I haven't even touched the conspiracy theories, credible (Seth Rich) or otherwise (comet ping pong)

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

Speaking of Russia....

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by mdk>

That's not gonna happen, because so far the only confirmed information is that the DNC handed its control to the Clinton campaign a year before the primary elections and anything more than that is conjecture or conspiracy theory.

@Spoopy Scary

Somebody is out-and-out lying to you. But before we get to that: what separates the "conjecture and conspiracy theory" surrounding Clinton, from that surrounding Trump? Why are uncomfirmed suspicions about the one bogus, but unconfirmed suspicions about the other are taken seriously? Think on that.

Anyway.

We know she colluded with Ukrain. We know (because after initially denying any knowledge, she later turned around and defended her role) that she paid foreign intel to produce the Trump dossier, and credited that info instead to a fictional number of intelligence agencies. We know she took cash while approving the Uranium One/Rosatom deal. We know she's got a long history of pay-for-play -- which, incidentally, means that most of the money in the DNC warchest since her newly-revealed 2015 takeover of their finances, came from foreign donations to the Clinton Foundation, from Saudi, Qatar, UAE, Brunei, Kuwait, and heck even Russia.

Oh, and Harvey Weinstein.

So..... ya know. That's the kind of thing that the DNC was getting up to. I'm not saying you have to be happy with the GOP -- but whoever it is that's telling you the DNC was clean is a goddamn filthy liar, and you need to drop them like a bad habit.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

git em dynamo

<Snipped quote by mdk>
Clinton rigged the primaries, but Trump won the election and one of his officials recently confessed to Russian involvement (as heard on NPR). There was corruption on both sides. Both parties are disgusting. But at least the democrats didn't enlist the aid of a foreign power. The election should be solely domestic.

@Spoopy Scary

any so-called centrists wanna correct this while I'm at work? Spoopy, someone is not giving you the whole story. Stay tuned. You're gonna be disgusted.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

This time it's from Donna Brazille, and the (alleged, I think we still have to say) extent of it is a lot more in the criminal range, on account of the Clinton campaign's takeover of the money.

What I'm wondering is, why are they copping to it now? My thinking is Uranium 1 is about to get nasty.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

So the DNC has officially acknowledged Clinton rigged the election.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

Still, free health care.

@ErsatzEmperor

"Free."

As I'm sure I've ranted about earlier, my own experience with free healthcare in the States has soured me on that whole concept. But that's why I'm not the PM, I suppose.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by mdk>

I wonder what side of the political spectrum they fell on....

@Dynamo Frokane

Uberconservative*. There, now you all can quit bickering over it, lol.

*Uberconservative probably doesn't mean what you think it means. This was in New York, these were not rednecks, they were generally really awesome, smart, well-adjusted and successful people, like engineers and architects and actual doctors and the like. Not big on sex-drugs-and-rock-and-roll, and somehow videogames (which were just finding their way into homes/mainstream) got roped into that. Of course this was the same timeframe as like the whole Mortal Kombat gore debacle really kicked off for the first time, maybe the landscape was primed for hysterics. Anywho -- pretty sure the hearts were in the right place, but heads were firmly up their own asses. I really liked that church though.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>
I wouldn't worry too much about it- misinformed right wing moral guardians have been whining about video games since the early days.

@Crimson Paladin

Back in my hard-core churchin' days, I heard many condemnations of Pokemon as satanism. Some folk are dumb.

Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

Unfortunately, radical Islamic terrorism rears its head again, this time in New York. Thus far we know the man is an immigrant refugee by the name of Sayfullo Saipov who used a rented truck to drive down a bike path and strike victims, but had his vehicle disabled by a bus driver who rammed him to stop the attack. He then exited the vehicle, apparently proclaiming, some say screaming, "Allahu Akbar" several times, and brandished weapons - which may or may not have been actual firearms, the reporting conflicts. The policemen then shot him several times and managed to take him into custody alive.

This all comes roughly at the same time as the last remnants of the Islamic State calls for terrorism on Halloween night. The attacks are said not to be coordinated, but more are potentially expected. I myself am hearing a shooting, possibly connected to terrorism, just occurred in Europe.

@The Harbinger of Ferocity

Interesting tidbit (or not interesting, shut up), my dad takes that bike route all the time, and was there this afternoon just minutes before the attack. Y'all might've had to deal with a very extremely upset mdk if the timing was just a bit different. Kinda surreal.