Okay guys, so we've run into some trouble by using some vague terms that did not quite transfer properly. Let's get down to first principles and build our way up again.
First, some points to optimise on with what we're trying to accomplish. Here are some objectives:
- Providing resources for cool stories.
- Providing creative control for all players.
- Providing an internally consistent framework of constraints to build on.
- Providing the ground work for some kind of dichotomy, should the players wish to play that out.
As you might imagine, sometimes these points may be at odds, and that is where it's especially worth talking things out. For all the other gaps in explanation, it's safe to assume that you can choose the one that adheres to the above points by default.
Now that's out of the way, I want to solidify the terminology a bit here to reduce confusion:
Gateway: A permanent connection between two places constructed with MP as per the act described in the draft Mk III rules. Please keep the term 'gateway' restricted to this application so people don't get confused! If folks want to use the term gateway for things other than this, we need to come up with a term to fill these specific criteria in its place. (Edit: Cyclone says they're gateways now, not portals :))
Connection: Any means of transgression between spheres. Any means. This can be a gateway, this can be a natural difficult means of transitioning such as the river Styx, or this can be some other contrivance. The bottom line? If any spheres interact, it is through a connection.
I love and appreciate the models you wrote up, BBeast, but I feel as though the two words above were muddled quite a bit.
Natural Connection: I'm adding this just as a term of convenience. A natural connection is a connection which is discovered and not manually created before it is utilised, such as a cave to the underworld or getting lost in the woods and ending up in the fairy world. These are always difficult to traverse in some way.
Now, how does this spheres stuff add up?
I feel as though too many ad-hoc facts have been placed in to patch this up that don't really matter in the big picture, such as physical relations, themes, and metaphysics. Most if not all of this should not constrain the players, so I'm going to try to summarise the upper/lower model in condensed terms to work with as a foundation. I'm using the upper/lower model, seeing as that's the one that makes the most sense in my eyes with the objectives I outlined above:
- A sphere is a plane of existence. If these aren't the Barrier, the Core, or Galbar, they are each allocated to a deity.
+ What's inside? Doesn't really matter; the owning player decides.
+ Do spheres have any necessary bearing to one another in three dimensional space? No. Their only relations are through connections.
- A sphere is either upper (Celestial, being between Galbar and the Barrier) or it is lower (Cthonic, being between Galbar and the core). The only mandated difference is that an upper sphere may not have any direct connections to a lower sphere and vice versa.
+ Are there any other differences? Doesn't really matter; the owning player decides.
+ Why do we have this at all? So Galbar is the middle ground and players can set up the resulting dichotomy however it would suit them.
+ How will this dichotomy take shape? Doesn't really matter; the players decide.
- A sphere has natural connections to other nearby spheres without gods needing to make them. These natural connections are difficult to traverse and influence each other end with the effects of the opposite sphere.
+ What spheres are nearby? Apart from the above point on upper vs. lower, it doesn't really matter; the owning player decides.
+ What makes a connection difficult to traverse? Doesn't really matter; the owning player decides.
+ How do spheres influence each other? Doesn't really matter; the owning players decide.
+ Are there any restrictions to the scale or nature of connections? Keep it within reason, and guide yourself with the objectives at the top of the post.
As you can see, this is a framework upon which the deities can set up whatever themes and interactions they wish organically. It does not mandate anything more specific than the above points. This has developed out of Aristotle's concepts, but is not his actual model.
(As an aside, if we want to adopt the Middle Spheres are Separate model, we would essentially have three branches from Galbar rather than two, with the middle spheres having no backing border like the Core or the Barrier. All the other above points would hold. I wouldn't mind either way, but I think with Cyclone going for a dichotomy rather than a trichotomy, we can stick with plain upper/lower unless there are any other arguments.)
On the Elder Scrolls stuff: As far as I can see it, this was brought up as an example of a godly dichotomy. The Aedra and Daedra are at odds with one another regarding Mundus, that's where it starts and ends. The actual cosmology (the big fuggoff wheel 'n' stuff) isn't really relevant to our models.
On Shifting Spheres: I'm of a mind with Cyclone. It's extra complexity we don't need and it would require players to constantly keep track of everything. The upper/lower model lends itself to arranging the spheres however we need anyway.
On Instant Travel (i.e. Temporary gateways): I see Cyclone's reservations about them. I put the suggestion in the proposals part of the doc just to have it there to talk about. I personally also prefer encouraging people to make other means of traversing natural connections or constructing permanent gateways rather than having instant easy travel. If there aren't any arguments otherwise, we can probably do away with the godly instant travel act.
That said, I think it would still be nice to envision arcane rituals or weird happenstances as natural connections between spheres, so mortals can summon demons in evil circles of evil and the like. The qualification of 'difficult to traverse' can be filled all sorts of ways, such as mass human sacrifice! Are there any objections to this?
EDIT: Cyclone just relayed to me that a gateway could be made in the form of a blood ritual that mortals could activate, so rituals wouldn't necessarily have to be natural connections either!
Anyway, if there is any other confusion or correction, please let me know.
StarfrostedFox
Scrawl Banditta
Lord Zee
SkyeOfStars
Vec
corneredbliss
LaserGunPewPew
EliteCommander