How can we help improve RPGuild? Community suggestions and discussion.

[Hank]

Well, it's not the any individual member's job either, every single member online has there own life, job and real life problems to deal with. As much as I sympathies and know it's not an easy job. It's frankly irresponsible to say, it's not my job to scour through things and waste my time, without pay. When it's equally true for every other person as well. In fact it's more so, because they don't have any power to do anything about it. The moderators do...

@SleepingSilence

I'm not suggesting that other people take up the mantle of detective in our stead and go trawl through the forums looking for issues to report. My stance is that the people directly involved with any given incident shoulder the responsibility of bringing it to our attention.

There have been people in this thread who have shared the sentiment that things don't get looked at when they report them to us. That's regrettable, but it raises the question of when these things took place and to who they were reported, because -- and this is the second time I'm saying this -- I barely receive any reports. There has been one incident that was PM'd to me in the last three months, and my colleagues picked that up and dealt with it within 24 hours. So either these sentiments are outdated, possibly stemming from a different moderator crew than the one we have now, or people haven't really been trying to bring things to our attention.

[mickilennial]

I tend to send my reports through @Kangaroo or @Mag Lev [as I am more familiar with them] unless it is a dire issue that needs full staff awareness to respond to. But that’s just me.

[Dolerman]

@SleepingSilence That wasn't 'political riffing' I was using a pop culture example about not tarring people with the same brush and it worked. In a conversation where we are discussing the possibility of merging and/or shutting down sub-forums it was important. I'm pretty sure you brought up politics not too long ago so lets not be hypocrites, kay?

[Hank]

I tend to send my reports through @Kangaroo or @Mag Lev [as I am more familiar with them] unless it is a dire issue that needs full staff awareness to respond to. But that’s just me.

@Inkarnate

This is fine by me as long as you're satisfied with their response times.

[Chairman Stein]

I'm super late but I figured as someone who only uses NRP, I'd drop in and give my cents on the issues there.

For starters, in my opinon, NRP is dead not in terms of active users but in terms of creativity. NRP consistently has like 2-3 RPs that are more or less identical sci-fi and or fantasy worlds with almost nothing making them unique from each other. It's become a niche community of users who consistently repeat themselves. I feel merging with Advanced or something similar would introduce new blood and ideas for NRP and possibly revive the long dulled section I love.

In addition I have a lot of qualms with the way NRPs are conducted now. More often than not they are almost indistinguishable from Advanced RPs. It's hardly even nations so much as it is characters who sort of lead groups. The original vibe of NRP, at her launch, was a written form game of diplomacy or risk with players actually roleplaying their nation, not 4 different OCs who live in that nation. With such a character focus you might as well not make it a Nation RP since all you've done is create a political/military Advanced RP.

Now I"m not the sole representative of the section. In fact due to my negative feelings about how it operates I join maybe one RP every few months; but I do feel the section I spend most of my time in needs to change, otherwise it'll just keep getting smaller and smaller until it's truly worthless. On issues involving the other parts of the forum or how the forum is moderated I can say little, since I rarely go beyond NRP or really ever deal with the mods/administrators to really have an opinion.

[Hank]

I would also like to emphasize the point once again that the Guild's moderators are primarily janitors. We take care of spam(bots), move threads and delete unwanted posts. Enforcing the behavioral code is our secondary function. The rules of the Guild are deliberately very simple and just amount to "don't be a flagrant asshole". If you think someone is being a flagrant asshole to you, send us a message. It's that simple.

We do not exist to "regulate the behavior of 100+ active users" as I saw someone describe it in the old locked thread. I don't believe that's even necessary. We're all just here to roleplay.

As for merging subforums and other site-wide changes, these are things that only Mahz can do. I will ask him if he's willing to appoint another admin to deal with larger and more structural changes to the Guild, including managing the rest of the staff, but no promises.

EDIT: I can see about making more sticky threads with guides etc in the appropriate subforums, however. Anyone interested in this should PM me with suggestions.

[mickilennial]

I just think you guys need a larger staff and Mahz to return to the site like I expect him to, really.

[Hank]

@Inkarnate Mahz is under no obligation to do anything for this site; he pays for it out own his own pocket and offers its services for free to the rest of us. It is important not to let your expectations be colored by a misplaced sense of entitlement.

[mickilennial]

@Inkarnate Mahz is under no obligation to do anything for this site; he pays for it out own his own pocket and offers its services for free to the rest of us. It is important not to let your expectations be colored by a misplaced sense of entitlement.

@Hank

I’ve never subscribed to the “it’s free of use, so you cannot criticize it” as a valid argumentation, personally. But my perspective has nothing to do with entitlement, so it is probably ineffective and improper to make statements that implicate such things. I fully respect the staff and Mahz, I simply make points arguing my point of view that current modules need to be improved for base effectiveness. I would say it is more important not to isolate your base audience and thus degrade confidence of management.

[Hank]

@Inkarnate Constructive criticism is always welcome, but statements such as "like I expect him to" leave a sour taste in my mouth.

[mickilennial]

@Inkarnate Constructive criticism is always welcome, but statements such as "like I expect him to" leave a sour taste in my mouth.

@Hank

You think my optimism that Mahz is fully expected to return to the site he cares deeply about as negative or “sour”? How? I am legitimately confused how you made that deduction when the tone and phrasing were not illicit in the slightest.

[Hank]

@Inkarnate English isn't my native language. I mistook your optimism for making demands ("No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die" -- that kind of thing). Apologies.

[skidcrow]

@Inkarnate English isn't my native language. I mistook your optimism for making demands ("No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die" -- that kind of thing). Apologies.

@Hank

tbh, @inkarnate probably should've used "like i expect he will" in the first place, but both phrases are interchangeable.

[mickilennial]

tbh, @inkarnate probably should've used "like i expect he will" in the first place, but both phrases are interchangeable.

@Grimhildr

I could have phrased it slightly different, perhaps, but I will stand by that it was objectively fine enough phrasing. But we are going into semantics about miscommunication and should get back to the larger topic at hand on how we can improve the website. Perhaps in ways that engage the community since the management has their hands tied at this point in time in terms of mechanical improvements.

[skidcrow]

<Snipped quote by Grimhildr>
I could have phrased it slightly different, perhaps, but I will stand by that it was objectively fine enough phrasing. But we are going into semantics about miscommunication and should get back to the larger topic at hand on how we can improve the website. Perhaps in ways that engage the community since the management has their hands tied at this point in time in terms of mechanical improvements.

@Inkarnate

i agree. i don't have much else to offer right now because my ability to write a coherent sentence has dramatically decreased, but i'll probably post something tomorrow.

[Dion]

Think you'd be surprised with just how much can be done without either. But it would take actually trying.

@Ruby

That's why I made this thread. To try something. Thanks for your acknowledgement on that.

One, the minimalism. I'll agree that things like reporting posts, searching, etc (possibly more tags, that's a personal preference), could do with being finished. That, of course, is a Mahz issue. That being said, I don't need/want a ton of frills when I write. I like things neat, and I like them organized to the best of my ability. So when I can open up the site and find exactly what I'm looking for without having to struggle with 50 different subforums and shit, it makes me feel more at home. Most of the other forums I've looked at have felt like they were trying too hard

@Mercenary Lord

Yeah, I agree, that's why I stated before that I'd rather have the current functions finished and then nothing new gets added over the current system of Mahz adding whatever seems cool (visitor messages, arena leaderboard) only to have it not be used at all. Either because it's broken or because the userbase for a feature is too small.

One of the things I would like to see improved would be a few things previously stated: that is, being able to remove PMs that are super old. It's just a pet peeve, and I thought I'd throw some support for that into the ring, if anyone is listening.

@Mercenary Lord

PM's deletion has been ... 'on the list' for years now. :) Ever since RPG was re-created. The list isn't very useful as you can tell. Rest assured that Mahz is.. aware. I think.

I don't think anyone has to remind him. He wants to do it, in everything I've ever seen from him on any level I've ever spoken to him. And he cares.

Tell everyone a story about Mahz and just how much he cares about the Guild:

When I was to become a Mod, we had a little talk about it in private. Pretty average chat on such a topic. What really shocked me? The only thing he REALLY wanted me to swear a bloodoath to? "Don't stop RPing. Don't let Modship make you quit RPing." He cared so much about the very core reason for the site, and about me personally not letting anything ruin that, that of ALL THE THINGS he could have asked me to swear to...that's what he picked. That's what was of supreme importance to Mahz. Probably the reason I'm still here, RPing on this site--because I promised him I wouldn't let anything ruin that.

He wants this site to be the best RPing experience it can be for everyone on the site. That's why he's created MORE RP sub-forums over the years instead of less. That's why he gave the IC/OOC/Character tabs. Tags. Even statuses and a status sidebar. I bet if he logged on right now, he could reel off a really impressive list of things he wants to get to. But the man's gotta eat, he's got life ambitions. And that's absolutely fair. This is a hobby for him, and he's given a lot more time and effort and blood/sweat/tears into it than I ever have, than any of us ever have.

So, no, I don't think any of the Mods needs to remind him like he doesn't care or just doesn't remember. And he probably doesn't need/want me saying any of this. But I've seen the guy work so hard, often thanklessly, over the years that I guess I felt I needed to say something.

@Ruby

Yes. This discussion exists more as a way of showing the moderators what we think. I never set out to make this thread reminding Mahz that he needs to do things here because he knows that and I know that he pays for this sites existence.

But if we can give him guidance in what we want in order to continue roleplaying and make it a more streamlined process, then that'd help. Don't you think? Because I don't think Mahz knows what is important to us. The fact that we can't delete PM's, co-GM's in a thread have no extra functionality, but arena leaderboard exists and we have 'visitor messages' that are even more broken than the server kind of shows that he's just been adding things that 'seem cool' with little idea about the practical application. That's how it seems. Whether he thought long and hard about it isn't really what I'm debating because I know he probably did (but I have no way of knowing for sure).

I never questioned Mahz' intentions or care. I questioned his link to the community, which is non-existant at this point, and a nice and cool anecdote won't save him from that.

And again, to reiterate, for the 20th time, because it didn't come across the first 19: I get that Mahz has a job. I get that he has other obligations. He needs to eat too, like damn, I get that. But at the point where we are now, I feel like Mahz is a big boy, I've been around this site for a long time, just like you have, I think he can take our criticism if it's constructive and maybe, just maybe discern for himself in this list of things which ones he agrees with and which ones he doesn't.

Because that's why we're having this discussion (read: we're trying, because you weren't passive aggressively saying we weren't before, right?). And I think that's a good effort and I'll definitely continue to question Mahz' actions as well as the moderators' actions because that's how you reach new ideas. Not by sitting back and saying everything is OK when it clearly isn't.

You've had two Moderators, one former Moderator, and one sub-forum Moderator already chime in here. You've had a little help, here.

@Ruby

I'm not satisfied with their answers so far bar maybe the acknowledgements we have gotten from @Kangaroo. Besides that, I've just seen a lot of excuses and explanations but no solvable acknowledgements of what the moderators perceive to be problems on RPG, nor any ideas for solutions.

And, I mean, when this thread is read entirely, I think it's pretty hard to argue that everything is OK. So I'm expecting a bit more from the moderators this time and I'm expecting a bit more to happen publicly so that everyone can see that they are doing something. So yes, they chimed in. It's the bare minimum of what a moderator should be doing. I don't feel like I should be applauding them for their input, but I'm thankful they gave it none the less.

I would also like to emphasize the point once again that the Guild's moderators are primarily janitors. We take care of spam(bots), move threads and delete unwanted posts. Enforcing the behavioral code is our secondary function. The rules of the Guild are deliberately very simple and just amount to "don't be a flagrant asshole". If you think someone is being a flagrant asshole to you, send us a message. It's that simple.

@Hank

I don't trust the moderators in most cases to deal with the problem how I want it to be dealt with, in part because I know nothing serious will happen (having been on the receiving and giving end of a complaint) and in part because I know you guys are unaware or don't care about off-site drama that has spilled over (which in my opinion and knowledge is .. a large part of why people have fights on here). What are your thoughts on the lack of trust people have expressed in the moderators in the past few pages of this thread? Certainly it'd explain why you've had only 1 complaint right?

We do not exist to "regulate the behavior of 100+ active users" as I saw someone describe it in the old locked thread. I don't believe that's even necessary. We're all just here to roleplay.

@Hank

Calling it regulate is a bit much, but I agree that that's not your job. I think your job is to do other things like engage the community, for example, but we can have a discussion about what your job entails later. "Regulating" behaviour is not really what I'd ascribe under that.

As for merging subforums and other site-wide changes, these are things that only Mahz can do. I will ask him if he's willing to appoint another admin to deal with larger and more structural changes to the Guild, including managing the rest of the staff, but no promises.

EDIT: I can see about making more sticky threads with guides etc in the appropriate subforums, however. Anyone interested in this should PM me with suggestions.

@Hank

@Lady Amalthea's guides are a good place to start. .. scratch that, I think her guides are one of the few that I'd see pinned everywhere if the choice was in my hands.

Adding to that, I don't think it's entirely unfair to expect Mahz to return to the site at some point.

He's the admin after all.

For example, I expect him to return when the guild next shits itself. It seems to be a recurring theme that he's here for that and then vanishes again.

[mickilennial]

Personally, I think the staff interacting with the site's discussion threads and banter more might remove the visibility issue outright. Right now a lot of people in this thread and the preceding one seem to think the mod’s are outright absent. Many other sites encourage more interactions and while I am no measure of how active the mods are or are not, I think this could only end with more positive effects if they did so. There’s an adage that may fit here. Life may be hectic, but for the things you care about [or take responsibilities for] you make time for.

[Hank]

I think your job is to do other things like engage the community, for example [...]

@Buddha

Why?

[Dion]

<Snipped quote by Buddha>

Why?

@Hank

Because engagement creates awareness of moderators, trust and above all shows a presence of moderators in the community rather than being an ivory tower, which it still seems like now despite attempts at tearing the ivory tower down. The only moderator that I'd say is involved with the community positively is Mag Lev, and he's always been involved with the community even before he was made a moderator.

I see you around, barely.
I see Kangaroo only in the Discord (and, barely active at that).
I honestly have no idea who Sherlock Holmes even is, and I was just informed that they are in fact head moderator of some sorts, where as I always thought that was you. And I still don't know who they really are.

Adding to that community building by moderators would also help get rid of some of the toxicity in the community (and no, you can't report everyone for being not nice).

[mickilennial]

Why?

@Hank

Because it builds community, would be a good argumentation to begin with. Staff & Management are the backbone of the community and therefore [from one point-of-view] should be an active part of the website that engages the communal audience of the website. There should be a modicum of a “community feel” and staff members should participate in discussions, banter, and roleplays. It creates visibility and visibility creates trust and that furthers respect. It also creates a more vibrant, welcoming, and active community which promotes regularity that inspires new users.