Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Nilesapa
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<Snipped quote by Nilesapa>

Well, no, not really. The Empire survives, but society and technology still changes.

EDIT: To elaborate - Roman military strategy would change to meet the standards of whatever era it survives in. And with former barbarians (and conquered peoples) assimilated into the Empire, you'd be looking at a very multicultural, and multilingual empire that only distantly identifies as Roman.


I hope you get decimated for thinking the romans would just abandon their formations and latin like that. They didn't for the last 600 years, why now? Sure the shield designs and politics change, sure some modifications to strategy to deal with new threats, but radical changes in how the roman army structured itself I don't recall being a thing. The romans were a pretty traditionalist society and this RP only takes place in the year 600. Romans will be quite christian, but other than maybe switching out red shields for lavender ones and bringing Calvary into the mix, I don't really see them changing too much in regards to military.

Barbarians are made civilized pepper, not emulated.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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<Snipped quote by Nilesapa>

Well, no, not really. The Empire survives, but society and technology still changes.


To get an idea of what the military would look like



To get an idea of what the actual people might look like.


Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Nilesapa
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Village, those decadents are byzantine. Not roman.

Romans had mono-colored marble statues and only red capes. ONLY RED CAPES.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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<Snipped quote by Pepperm1nts>

To get an idea of what the military would look like



To get an idea of what the actual people might look like.



No, clearly they'd be...

Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Nilesapa
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Whoa romans really did advance quickly in those 150 years.

But look at this:
google.com/search?q=roman+legionnaire&..

See? I typed in roman legionnaire and got proper Romans. What fabricated sources you get your byzantine fluffery with peacock feather wearing kings that look like they're from the year 11000, not the year 600 I do not know.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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Whoa romans really did advance quickly in those 150 years.

But look at this:
google.com/search?q=roman+legionnaire&..

See? I typed in roman legionnaire and got proper Romans. What fabricated sources you get your byzantine fluffery with peacock feather wearing kings that look like they're from the year 11000, not the year 600 I do not know.


But their culture suffered extensively.

Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Nilesapa
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I just wanted to go stabbing barbarians with a gladius and drink some wine.

But I get this.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Pepperm1nts
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The Byzantines called themselves Romans even though they were more Greek than anything. And that is exactly what would happen to the west if it survived. You'd have a bunch of different kinds of people (like Germanics, which were already plentiful in Rome before the empire even collapsed) calling themselves Romans. 'Roman' would no longer be a race, but more of a distant identity that the descendants of Romans, and those of assimilated barbarians and conquered peoples, would take.

In fact, the Roman Empire collapsed largely due to their inability to assimilate migrants.

To quote wikipedia:
The Roman Empire began to disintegrate in the early 5th century as Germanic migrations and invasions overwhelmed the capacity of the Empire to assimilate the migrants and fight off the invaders. The Romans were successful in fighting off all invaders, most famously Attila the Hun, though the Empire had assimilated so many Germanic peoples of dubious loyalty to Rome that the Empire started to dismember itself.


Rome could not survive while also remaining Roman. Eventually, it would either become Roman only in name, or collapse. Byzantium survived, but it was Roman largely in name. They even spoke Greek mostly.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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<Snipped quote by Pepperm1nts>

I hope you get decimated for thinking the romans would just abandon their formations and latin like that. They didn't for the last 600 years, why now? Sure the shield designs and politics change, sure some modifications to strategyto deal with new threats, but radical changes in how the roman army structured itself I don't recall being a thing.

Barbarians are made civilized pepper, not emulated.


Sort of. Not quite though.

The Roman military formation had been built based on Roman presumptions about war, and it changed quite frequently. They adopted manipular shield walls after the Samnite Wars, abandoning the Greek Phalanx because the mountain-based Samnites could employ skirmishers to break phalanxes. Sword infantry was more maneuverable, and so they used it.

While moving across western Europe, they developed the form of infantry warfare that everyone recognizes as uniquely Roman, and it worked quite well because the Celtic and Germanic peoples they were up against liked a heroic form of warfare where personal achievement was more important than coherent battle lines. When the Romans fought Carthage, they had more trouble, and they were forced to adopt a navy.

But the most important change to Roman warfare came about when they went east and discovered Parthia. Now, if you've seen a movie with mongols or huns in it where the archers fire their bows while running away from their targets, that is often called the Parthian Shot. The reason it has this name is because the Romans, who often dominate historical writing at the time, learned its existence from warring with the Parthians.

And the way they discovered this was pretty bad for them.

The Romans had not developed Cavalry simply because it didn't have a place in their early society. Italy wasn't the type of place that naturally bred an interest in horses, and you need a horse culture to breed a cavalry culture. But when they went east and ran across horse-based militaries, they had a hard time keeping up, and it took them a long time to develop a decent cavalry base.

It will.

Continue.

To be.

A problem.

For them.

Now, the way this is going to evolve is that the Roman military will began employing cavalry in more and more central roles, until by the time the west has fallen cavalry will be the cream of the Roman military and the infantry will become something more akin to the battle lines of the medieval ages. It helps to understand that too, the expensive professional armies of the late Republic and earlier Empire will increasingly be replaced by poorly paid conscripts from the country with little chance of advancement, and by foreigners who lived rougher lives and were willing to be paid less. This is to say that they won't nearly be as strong.

On the other hand, the Romans will be recruiting their best soldiers for the cavalry, and they will arm them to the teeth. They also end up employing large numbers of mercenaries from the incoming steppe tribes to act as cavalry archers, because that Parthian shot will last long after the Parthians are gone.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Nilesapa
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Pretty much with the Calvary. I recall seeing a Alt history where that's pretty much what happened since they'll need that Calvary.

But I just am going by what I want and not reality. I heard fantasy RP with Romans in the OP and I get all this historical accuracy stuff. It seems there's always more to learn with history and all this research will drive me crazy since I am horrible at research. All this realism make me wonder how obsessive the Info on the two hundred years between the PoD and now is going to be.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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I've known @Dinh AaronMk since we were making history missions in Spore back in 2009, so I know he is very capable of carrying the research, and have I known @Pepperm1nts long enough that I trust he is capable of knowing what details to look for. @Nerevarine says he is knowledgeable about the Roman period, and i've been a nerd about researching history since I was a child. I think we got a good team to do the necessary research.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Nilesapa
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I only know that there was a Samnites and they got conquered and Carthage marched elephants across the alps and the Romans played hide and seek with him.

Than something about a roman who held his hand over fire and didn't even flinch much to the shock of that Etruscan.

I think I may need to refresh myself before going in. Its been a while since i've read up on romans. Like 8-9 months ago.

My memory sucks.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by AYoungWarthog
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Alright, alright. Enough pointless bickering. Daddy's back. :p

I'll cook up an OOC for the Roman Idea in the next three or four days, PM me your interest and I'll link you to it when it's up!
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Dedonus
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I have interest in a Roman-era RP (pending on whether or not I will be too stretched thin). However, I don't know how everyone went from the early empire (which was mentioned in option 3) to late antiquity? Honestly, I would prefer something closer to the early empire (or even the late Republic, since Rome by that time was practically an empire already. Her 'emperors' were Julius Caesar, Pompeius Magnus, and Licinius Crassus).
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Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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It is either way. I was just suggesting late antiquity because I had already been contemplating making a late antiquity RP when this interest check came up.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Nerevarine
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I just want to play as a Visigothic kingdom, so late antiquity is okay with me.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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Her is a map you could use for a Late Antiquity RP.



I mostly decided to include people who would be important to the politics of the Romans, Persians, or Arabs. Most of what is blacked out is tribal land too far from the area of the RP. I'm assuming the Ostrogoths would have disappeared/been swallowed by the other groups, and that the Vandals would have been kicked out since Africa is the breadbasket of Italy, and since it was taken out by the Byzantines in the real world 6th century anyway. I mashed a few Dioceses together so the Roman Empire isn't too divided. An Emperor in Constantinople and a Co-Emperor in Rome fits with late-Roman tradition.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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I can Allahu Ackbar that.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Nilesapa
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All these barbarian kings sprouting up are going to destroy civilization.

Ceaser better begin divide et imperia while he can.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by AYoungWarthog
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@VilageidiotxI'm having some set backs in writing an OOC with work and all. But I love the map. I'll keep you all updated. Hope to have it done by the end of the weekend.

I will be GMing as Caesar's Rome. I will like one other "Co-GM", more like a simple Moderator, to play the Eastern Empire.
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